Why do some people feel that they must breastfeed at any cost?

[Moomin8]

I’ve got plenty of experience of both types of feeding - I breastfed two of my children until 2 years. They were great feeders - I had no problems.

My other two children for various reasons ended up having formula. One was 3 weeks early, severely jaundiced and my milk was slower to come in than it should. I didn’t want her going into hospital for uv therapy. The other couldn’t feed well and was eventually diagnosed with dyspraxia, later. She would get tired and not take enough bm.

Now, I see this lady on Instagram who has a 6 week old baby who weighs only 7 pounds and he was born at term weighing 6 pounds. He clearly is not thriving. Every time I see a picture of him I cringe. And his mother is about my age (40) and this is baby #6 for her.

I would be the first to say that breast IS best. But only if the child is thriving surely?

How can a baby make the necessary brain development in those early weeks if they aren’t picking up weight?

I know that society makes women feel like formula is evil. But sometimes I think it’s better than breastfeeding when the baby isn’t thriving.

Currently have a 4 month old and 2.5 year old. Growing a baby is fucking amazing, giving birth to a baby (however this happens) is fucking hardcore (and often traumatic), being responsible for a baby is fucking hard work (however you feed) and becoming a mother in general is a headfuck. Basically we women are all amazing. We are judged about every decision we make from the moment we become pregnant, as if this is society's right. Except in VERY rare circumstances, we all love our baby's and children and do our absolute best. We are fortunate enough to live in a country where however you give birth and however you feed it is SAFE. We get enough crap from the patriarchal society we live in - let's at least be a united front together. We are all defensive about the choices we make, because most of us will have experienced some dickhead (be that random strangers, professionals, family, friends) making stupid comments about our choices (be that ff or bf or any other no. of decisions related to parenthood). And sadly this results in us attacking other mothers. Why are we women always the ones to shoulder all the guilt around raising children when we're the ones who have done the amazing feat of bringing them into the world in the first place. We need to own our choices and be confident that we've made them with the best of intentions because they are right for us, our baby and family unit. And trust that other mothers are doing the same. I genuinely think mothers have such a hard job and should at the very least be able to rely on the support and understanding of other mothers.

Haven’t read the full thread but I intend to at some point.

I put immense pressure on myself to breast feed both my children.

I had difficulties with both of them (for different reasons) and I nearly drove myself insane - especially with my first.

I so badly wanted to BF my first that I just kept battling through my tears and difficulties, kept going and going and going until eventually one day it clicked (at about 8 weeks in).

With my second it was always my plan to BF - for many reasons, it was a total nightmare for 4 months but then things eventually turned the corner.

I came close to switching to formula with my second on many occasions but I didn’t because a) I breast fed my first and wanted them both to have the same start and b) I was so pro-BF I would have felt very hypocritical if I switched to formula.

In hindsight both those reasons sound very wanky but it’s how I felt at the time.

@QueenofmyPrinces

4 months????

I'm surprised you were so pro-BF with that experience under your belt!

I’m still BF’ing him now aged 2 years 8 months so it paid off in the end.

All the difficulties we had could be fixed it just took time to get there

@QueenofmyPrinces you must have endless amounts of patience and perseverance. And a bloody tight support system to keep going for 4 months before it clicked.

I'm a little in awe.

My husband was the only one really who kept me going when everyone else told me to stop.

It started off with me having shredded nipples on Day 7, they were bleeding, torn, I was crying through every feed, it was just unbearable pain so I suspected a tongue tie so I got him looked at. He had a severe posterior tongue tie so it was snipped on Day 9 of life on my living room floor

We then had a few more painful weeks of him re-learning how to feed and it was very draining and because things weren’t going as well as we hoped his weight started plateauing.

Then when he was 4-5 weeks old the constant screaming started....all day and all night. I was back and forth to the doctors, being fobbed off with colic, reflux etc, given Gaviscon, then Ranitidine, all whilst surviving on no sleep and trying to look after my 3 year old too.

Whilst this was going on my baby was leaking milk out of his mouth when I fed him from one side and he seemed uncomfortable/in pain and ultimately he ended up having to see a Cranial Osteopath for 5 sessions to sort it out - it transpires he had issues with some of the tissues in his neck as a result of his delivery.

Although the mechanism of feeding was then sorted he still seemed in pain all the time, screaming all night, all refluxy behaviours despite the medication and eventually his pain got so bad he simply refused to feed - he’d cry in hunger but then push away from me when I tried to feed him and scream some more. I rang the On Call doctor and just sobbed my heart out down the phone.

It was then suggested to me that DS had a milk allergy so I could either switch to prescription formula or cut out all dairy from my diet for a period of 6 weeks to see if there was any noticeable difference. I found it really hard, I hardly ate, I felt crap and my son continued to cry for 2-3 weeks until the dairy started to wean out of his system. After 6 weeks of being dairy free I had a massive binge on it (that’s how you diagnose it, by looking for a deterioration in the baby) and the results confirmed he was allergic - and so I then had to accept I was cutting out all dairy permanently.

Then a few months later the feeding got painful again, his weight started falling out and then after consulting with a lactation consultant she found that his tongue tie had reattached so he had to have the procedure repeated.

I won’t lie - it felt like one battle after another trying to get a successful breast feeding relationship and during all the issues with his poor weight gain and dairy allergy my HV and Dietician kept trying to encourage me to just put him on formula, but I’m glad I kept going and that it all worked out in the end.

@queenofmyprinces

Wow that's quite a story! Sounds hellish.

Just wondering, but how did you reach the conclusion that breastfeeding was worth having a baby that was hungry/in pain/losing weight for 4 months? Did his growth catch up afterwards?

I dont mean that to sound judgey, just very curious to understand the breastfeeding-at-all-costs mentality.

Just wondering, but how did you reach the conclusion that breastfeeding was worth having a baby that was hungry/in pain/losing weight for 4 months? Did his growth catch up afterwards?

He wasn’t in a constant state of being hungry, in pain and losing weight for 4 months - they were just separate issues that occurred over the course of 4 months.

And the reason I breast fed throughout the difficulties was because formula wouldn’t have made any difference.

He would still have had tongue tie if I had switched to formula.

He would still have had problems with his neck muscles if I had switched to formula.

He would still have had a few weeks of the painful effects of the dairy allergy (due to reacting to the proteins he’d received from my breast milk) if I had switched to formula.

The reason I persevered through it was because none of the problems he had were a consequence of my milk therefore there was no reason to stop breast feeding him.

Yes his problems made breast feeding more difficult for the first 4 months of his life but if I had swapped to formula it wouldn’t have made his problems disappear - they would still have been there.

All the issues we had that made breast feeding difficult could be ‘fixed’ and so that’s what we did and it all turned out fine.

The second tongue-tie revision coincided with the point of all dairy being out of his system, and so between those two factors his weight gain picked up again and he has always been on the same percentile line since.

He’s coming up 3 now and still can’t have dairy directly but thankfully he can tolerate it through my milk so I’m finally allowed pizza and chocolate again

It does make sense that he wouldve had the same problems bottle feeding (although I suspect it is easier to bottle feed with a tongue tie).

It just sounds like it was very stressful for you, having to cut out dairy, being in pain etc.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out through this thread is why breastfeeding is seen as more important than the mum and baby's physical health, the mother's mental health and enjoyment of her newborn. It just seems a very high price for a negligible nutritional benefit after the first few weeks.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out through this thread is why breastfeeding is seen as more important than the mum and baby's physical health, the mother's mental health and enjoyment of her newborn. It just seems a very high price for a negligible nutritional benefit after the first few weeks.

I strongly believed (and still do) that breast milk is better for a baby than formula and so I wanted that for him. Yes it was a difficult 4 months but in the grand scheme of things that’s no time at all.

In terms of mental heath, I know that if I had given up and switched to formula then I would have really, really struggled to cope with that. I imagine I would have beaten myself up over it for a very long time.

For some reason people think that women let their mental health slide by forcing themselves to breast feed, but it can happen the other way around too because for some women, not being able to breastfeed can lead to them having problems with their mental health too and this needs to be understood.

Isn’t there some research that shows that women who stop breast feeding before they actually want to (due to weight gain issues or various other BF problems) then go on to be severely affected by that, mentally and emotionally?

I’m all for women switching to formula if that’s what they want to do, but a lot of women don’t want to do that, and that’s ok too.

Some people probably thought I was mad at the time for putting myself through it, but I knew that with a bit of patience then things would be ok - so I just carried on until we turned the corner.

I understand that some babies need formula for medical reasons (jaundice, dehydration, hypoglycaemia, poor milk supply, inability to latch, etc etc) but my son didn’t ‘need’ to be switched to formula for any reason.

Yes formula feeding would have been easier on me, but breast feeding babies is hard work and knackering even if there aren’t any problems involved so I just rode it out.

Like I said, I’ve been feeding him now for 32 months, so 4 months of difficulty at the start of that time period is nothing really.

If I had felt at any time that my son was medically at risk by BF’ing him then I would have introduced/swapped to formula, but he wasn’t.

I knew that we just had to deal with all his issues and then everything would be fine so that’s what we did.

In terms of mental heath, I know that if I had given up and switched to formula then I would have really, really struggled to cope with that. I imagine I would have beaten myself up over it for a very long time.

That's very sad

I could understand if breastfeeding was really beneficial to a baby's health, eg a virtual guarantee of no allergies, never getting flu etc but there just isnt any evidence that I have seen that shows anything other than a fairly negligible benefit.

I was bf as a baby, DP was formula fed. I have a chronic health condition breastfeeding is meant to prevent, DP is fit as a fiddle and never gets colds, etc.

You could never tell on the street who was bf and who wasn't, so although I agree breastfeeding is a good thing to do to me it just wouldn't be worth fighting through loads of problems.

I find it really sad when people associate it with their value as a mother.

I could understand if breastfeeding was really beneficial to a baby's health, eg a virtual guarantee of no allergies, never getting flu etc but there just isnt any evidence that I have seen that shows anything other than a fairly negligible benefit.

And that’s fine for you to have that opinion.

But a lot of women, after doing their own reading feel that there is a big benefit in giving breast milk over formula, hence why they want their baby to have it.

No approach is wrong.

Some women aren’t that bothered about their baby having breast milk and think formula is just as good etc so they may have just switched if they were faced with the difficulties I had which is their choice to make, but for me (and for a lot of other women), I didn’t want my baby to have formula unless it was absolutely necessary.

I don’t know if I attributed my feeding choice to my value as a mother - but I guess that because I believe breast milk is better for a baby than formula is then as part of my “mothering role” it made sense that I did as much as I can to ensure he got what I thought was best. There no need to feel sad for me about it

I agree @Wolfgirrl. Sibling studies have actually shown that BF increases the risk of developing asthma. Ancedotally my siblings were BF and I was FF, they have asthma, eczema, allergies; not because of BFing but it obviously didnt prevent it like some studies from the 70s said it did. Women should choose what they want to do, but if actually looking at recent research, you are right, the benefits are small- definitely not enough to risk your MH for.

I just think if we are going to improve BF rates we need to stop making mums feel guilty and focus on the real barriers to it. Things like unrealistic expectations and unsupportive family members.

I think my concern with trying to minimise the benefits of BF is it can be used as an excuse not to support women who do want and need support to BF. For arguments sake it's not just health but financial, supply and environmental issues are also relevant.

@snuggybuggy

It's interesting that your post doesnt mention the needs of the baby, only the needs of the woman.

Breastfeeding has become all about meeting the needs of the woman while ignoring the fact the baby is a human being who is being allowed to go hungry.

If you wanted your child to have only organic food, and none was available, you wouldn't let them go hungry, you would just give them whatever food was available. You certainly wouldn't get them to wait weeks before having a properly full tummy.

But for some reason it is more acceptable to leave a tiny baby to go hungry than an older child.

Regardless of the health benefits, environment etc surely it is cruel to let a baby go hungry even for a matter of days?

Of course its cruel to let a baby go hungry but it's important that the mother is able to make an informed choice about the best approach to manage the situation.

And yes the needs of the mother do matter. The phrase happy mum happy baby does get trotted out to justify some real crap but here I think it has its place. In most cases its the mother doing the bulk of the feeding even with formula so it's not unreasonable to try and find a situation the mother can manage. There are some practical reasons why it's easier for a mum to BF.

@SnuggyBuggy I agree, but it should also be based on fact. There are always global studies from the 70s and 80s banded about. In my opinion, if there wasn't such a stigma to FFing because, well I'm not sure why there is anymore, all mothers would be more likely to support others. For example, my friend BF, I didn't, but she came to me plenty of times asking for help with the cleaning, or for some books to read to keep her occupied whilst feeding, to drive her to support groups, and I didnt mind as a friend because I didn't feel guilty about my choice. Many do, and that sometimes closes off other women who could be a support as they don't want to ask at fear of being accused of rubbing it in their faces, which is ridiculous, but very real to someone who feels bad about it. Also the midwives who offer no support to FFers just creates more of a stigma, support every woman and then those who are struggling might be more inclined to say well I was going to FF but actually whilst I am here can we discuss BFing. Creating a divide just creates bad feeling, and obviously isn't working as BF rates are low. Respect women's wishes, invest more in support for all, and take away the idea that your worth as a mother is based on feeding, we are still individuals.

I come across many, many women in my job who have poorly babies as a result of breast feeding not going well.

Upon talking to the mothers it is very clear that the “advice and support” they received whilst in the maternity department was severely lacking. We see babies come to us as young as two days old with medical issues as a result of them having insufficient milk.

However, these babies don’t come to us because the mothers are putting their own wants/needs before their baby with the “breast feed at any cost” mentality, they are coming to us because nobody has shown them how to breast feed properly or spoke to them about what is normal when it comes to breast feeding behaviours and feeding patterns etc.

When we see these women and babies, the answer isn’t to throw formula at them, the answer is to educate them and show them how to do things right.

As many people have said, the problem women have is that there is no support available to them - not even from Day 1 in some cases.

To be honest if it was up to me I'd rather we just gave mothers an accurate list of the practical matters and pros and cons of both feeding methods.

For me what kept me breastfeeding was the thought of having get out of bed and go to the kitchen several times a night. Even doing it half the time seemed like more hassle than BF in bed. I knew someone else for who BF would help her do all the international trips to see relatives that she had planned for her maternity leave. Neither of these things had anything to do with the breast is best guilt tripping but they were what was important to us.

The way FF has been dealt with is bad. The whole situation with sakazakii and mums just been given a cumbersome bottle prep method and no rationale, so of course many just asked their mums how they prepped bottles and ignored the advice, was a poorly handled situation.

The way mum's are told to boil kettles and twat around for 30 minutes whilst also feeding on demand is ridiculous. The way people say "just read the tin" is equally useless.

I just think the whole situation with guilt and lack of useful information let's people down.

Basically personally I just believe women all deserve equal support, some will require more, some won't utilise it, and some just a point in the right direction at the start. I honestly believe that will improve BF rates as well, my midwife said well if we support people in FFing they won't bother to try it; at the appointment before that another was taking down a display on BFing as they had women upset at seeing it because they felt guilty, no doubt at least in part because of that sort of atittude. Open up support, everyone matters, their choice is okay and people won't get upset at seeing info like that which means more open conversations and more accurate information being available to make informed choices. The divide is toxic as it is, and although some may be natural, a lot is exasperated by attitudes.

I completely agree OP. My milk was slow to come in due to a c-section, so DD was given formula as she was a hungry wee thing. When my milk did come in I was lucky that I had no issues with supply, and DD thrived, but if she hadn't I would have carried on combination feeding. Yes, breast is best, and I have always felt that everyone should try, but not at the expense of your baby's health if there are problems!

I wonder if it would make more sense to see FF/BF as a spectrum rather than binary. There are women who mostly BF but their partner gives a bottle a day so they can sleep, women who want to do the first few days of colostrum then move on to FF, people who exclusively express, mix feeders and women who need to supplement short or long term.

I'd also question the idea that giving a bit of formula in the early days means you've ruined breastfeeding. It just doesn't seem supported by the evidence.

I'd also question the idea that giving a bit of formula in the early days means you've ruined breastfeeding. It just doesn't seem supported by the evidence.

No, it doesn't. In fact, the evidence suggests the opposite is true.

Haven't read the whole thread but heres my experience.

When I was pg with ds1 (15)y midwife assumed I would ff because of my age. (I was 19). I hadn't actually thought about it at all and it was only when she mentioned it that I realised I had just assumed I would bf.
At our ante-natal classes the group was asked who was planning to bf and who was planning to ff. It was made very clear that ff was bad thing and I can't imagine anyone would have admitted that it was their first choice. I was very lucky in that Ihad no complications feeding and managed to BF ds1 for 20 months, only stopping because I was 3 months pg and didn't know I could tandem feed.

Ds2 was BF for 3 years. Again I was lucky that I had no difficulty feeding him other than when he was a few weeks old he was admitted to hospital with suspected pyloric stenosis. I expressed as he was tube fed for a couple of days, and then his milk intake needed to be monitored. When I finally tried to bf him again he wouldn't latch. The nurses told me to formula feed and offered no help whatsoever. Quite different to the ante natal classes from ds1! We persevered (he probably had some expressed milk or formula I can't remember) and he eventually latched again. I trained as a bf counsellor and helped at the clinic for a couple of years. I was also asked to take part in a dvd, along with other young mums, that was being made by the nhs about bf, to be given to all expectant mothers. The section we featured in was called "when things go wrong" . (Most if us hadn't had problems feeding. It seemed the thing that 'went wrong' was us being young mums!)

It's only now that I think 'would formula really have been that bad?'. The message from the ante natal classes was so strong!

My baby refused to breastfeed. After birth we did the first feed without any problems - latched on perfectly so maybe naively I thought we’d be fine going forward. Absolutely not.

I spent 5 days in hospital trying to get baby to feed. I had the most amazing feeding specialist sit with me for hours on end trying to get baby to latch - on one occasion it took us 3 hours, she came back throughout the night to help us and still took at least an hour each time to even get baby to latch. The 3rd night I saw her she said we should really think about formula which broke my heart. In all her years doing the job she had only experienced about 5 babies as stubborn as mine with regards to feeding (she took it as a personal failure.) The support I got from her and on my last night when it was a complete shift change a midwife who was the nutrition expert was invaluable to me. They were some of the few people who actually took time to listen and try and help us.

Support from dayshift was beyond a joke, the midwife in charge of our ward - less said about him the better - useless. Dismissed me when I said I wanted to formula feed after all the struggles I’d had- he actually refused to discharge me as I wasn’t trying hard enough. That night when the feeding expert came to see me I ended up in floods of tears to her and that’s when she told me for my baby - formula is best. She made sure to write in my notes how hard we’d tried etc as she was shocked at how he had treated me - I think she’d had run ins with him in the past judging by the eye roll when I mentioned his name.

I felt guilty for so long and it annoys me that I was made to feel that way. My discharge notes even said I was breastfeeding with formula top ups. Breast is not always best - my child is thriving and we’re both happy.