Gather round all pro-bfeeding anti-formula MNers I have a question..........................................

[Malaleche]

Shouldnt there be a be-all and end-all bible of breastfeeding info, experiences and statistics etc which every woman should be given at the first pregnancy check-up and MADE to read (yes, I know, maybe we could be examined on it and !) , which has been written by the WHO and breastfeeding experts and which could be the final and last word on bfeeding(...until new evidence means a new edition has to be brought out.....)

I just dont understand why there has to be so much conflicting advice out there and why some women are still so woefully ignorant about bfeeding at the end of the day....

I also agree absolutely that formula should be avaliable only on prescription but before that happens there needs to be a lot more education and (24 hr)support avaliable or there would be a lot of hungry babies and suffering mothers out there....and why don't govs give 9 months maternity leave on full pay if the WHO recommends 6 months exclusive bfeeding (am adding 3 months for establishing weaning)?

Meant to say wasn't ignorant about BF

Haven't read the whole thread - just want to respond to OP - what a hateful, hurtful opinion to so many Women out there who have problems with BF. Formula on Prescription unbelievable that someone could be so clueless.

Funnily enough, I really don't have a huge problem with formula on prescription and I struggled like hell with breastfeeding. I do agree that health professionals making definitive decisions on infant feeding is probably not a good idea but I don't have a problem in principle. I wouldn't have found it demeaning - it was having to buy it in the supermarket, like it was my choice, that I found demeaning (not to mention expensive). I can understand that women who choose to formula feed for whatever reason would be rather annoyed about it and feel demeaned. But I really can't see the problem with it when breastfeeding goes wrong - we can get help on prescription for almost any other medical problem, so why not medical problems with breastfeeding?

However, that's just my opinion at the moment. I'm don't feel strongly enough about it to argue for ages but just wanted to say I'm not idealogically opposed to the idea as such.

The OP has apologised relentlessly.

I hate the term "Breastfeeding Nazi's". Its so far from appropriate, and in so many ways its untrue.

I have asked for this thread to be deleted too.

me neither, twinkle. in a way i think that getting it on prescription would have validated my struggle in the beginning, weirdly enough.
because it would have signalled to the world (which in my brain-addled state i thought had noticed that i was a bfing 'failure' ) that it was a Medical Problem and not a lack of desire on my part. [insane]
which i realise sounds like i'm slagging off people whose desire it is to ff, but tbh i couldn't have cared less about them at the time as i had nothing in common with them. i went to bfing support groups, i mix-fed, i was a bfer, just a shite one.
i so wanted to bf, and i was mortified at buying the milk. actually i sent dh or my mum to get it for months, as if it was important that the woman in Boots presumed i was exclusively bfing my dd until 12 weeks at least. [nuts]

plus there's the frigging cost... [mean]
what woudl be wrong with the govt producing it, and charging for it if necessary? so vvv's kid and mine could get access to the milk they needed at a subsidised price?

and i personally think that while malaleche's thread title was ill-judged, her heart is clearly in the right place. although i wouldn't have said that if you'd caught me a year and a half ago...

I'd just like to point out that:

1. Before i edited my original title to avoid litigation it said 'anti-Nestle' instead of 'anti-formula'.
2. Formula on prescription only is not my idea which is why i said 'i agree...' and not 'i think...'
3. when i said mothers should be made to read up on bfeeding i didnt expect anyone to take me seriously which is why i then made the joke about being examined on it. Maybe i should have put a smiley face in there .

i cannot find the thread where i first saw the prescription idea but i think it was one of the ones about formula promotion in the developing world which called for a ban on advertising of formula.

Judging by the number of people who admit to having been ignorant about many aspects of bfeeding before they gave birth i think info on bfeeding does need to be PUSHED more.

I really feel for those who wanted to bfeed and for whatever reason couldnt, or not to their satisfaction, but how many of those who decided not to even try and bfeed their first baby, in particular (i.e. had had no prior negative experience) would have bfed if they had been given the full low down on bfeeding? It's not enough to hand out leaflets or repeat the mantra 'Breast is best', society in general and women in particular need to be actively educated. My non-existant bible on bfeeding should be on the national curriculum.

TBH though Malaleche, I think resources are better focussed on helping women who DO want to breastfeed to be able to continue (whilst knowing all too well that all the help in the world might not be enough). Around 75% of women start off breastfeeding - that message is getting through I think.

I would have been quite annoyed if breastfeeding had been pushed down my throat when I was pregnant. It was a given for me anyway, and women who don't want to might just be even more put off.

I think you'll find the reason that many women, myself included, don't read that much about breastfeeding before they give birth is because it just doesn't seem real. I didn't want to tempt fate by reading much past the birth itself and I know a lot of women feel the same. And I was given quite a lot of information, it's just that I wasn't really able to digest it at that time with everything that was going on with my pregnancy. I don't think it's fair to berate women for not reading up enough - books aren't enough anyway, nothing can prepare you for the experience (and pain) itself.

It's a bit like labour really - I read loads and loads about that. It didn't stop me having an agonising OP labour though.

twinkle, for me that was definitely it. tbh i think i was so concerned with labour and getting a Real Live Baby i couldn't have jinxed it by reading too far ahead. i did go to bfing classes, though, but i don't think anythign can really prepare you.
the initial bfing figure is high, which is why those 75% should be given loads of support to continue. if 25% don't want to even try, let them. the 75% will change societal norms and the 25%'s children will bf in one generation flat.

btw, malaleche, er... what does your name mean?

Malaleche - I know your intentions are good.

Thanks for responding to requests for a deletion.

sorry you had an agonising OP delivery megan - but the fact you had read up on chidbirth meant you knew WHY it was agonising even tho there was little, or nothing, you could do about it!

i keep remembering a friend of a friend i met the other day, she's 6 months preg and we were chatting and i dont remember what i said exactly, something about the ante-natal classes and info about bfeeding and the woman implied she hadnt done any reading and said 'it cant be that difficult'.....

Aitch - it means 'rude grumpy bastard' in Spanish!

there was fuck all twinkle or pruni or I or many like us could have done to make our bfing any better, to be fair, regardless of how much info we'd have had in advance.

what does your name mean, lovely girl?

tiktok - thanks. i have ask MN to delete but they must have gone to bed....as should i....

But you do think it can't be that difficult though, Malaleche. I thought that. Truly I don't think anything can prepare you. And I knew all about the technicalities of breastfeeding, that the milk wouldn't come in for a few days, that I needed to put DS to the breast as often as possible, the optimum latch (haha). But I had a baby with undiagnosed tongue tie who was full of mucus and couldn't/wouldn't suck, and when he did suck he left me red raw. No, I'm afraid I hadn't read enough to realise at the time that perhaps the six or seven different health professionals who had tried to help hadn't actually checked for tongue tie. So shoot me.

oh right, i knew an argentinian i think who used it for wishing bad luck to people so i've always thought it was a weird screen name. i've always recognised you for it, though.

yes aitch, i know it wouldnt have made any difference and had included a long-winded para to that effect in the post below which i then deleted...
The midwife who ran my ante-natal classes said that bfeeding was not always easy and should be looked upon as 'a series of small obstacles to be overcome' so my point is that for those who dont have major problems, just small obstacles, more info could help them continue to bfeed.

Twinkle - i know it can be difficult, im on my second baby! When i got a little scratch on my nipple a few weeks back i had a tiny, tiny inkling of the utter agony some women must go through!

I actually agree with you on that point Malaleche - I do think that the literature glosses over many of the common problems and that some more information could help some women.

I think this thread was doomed before it started really though because of your thread title.

ah right you mean 'one doesnt think it can be that difficut'

Ah yes, sorry - should have made myself clearer.

as i said i totally, totally think that your heart is in the right place on this one, you're actually trying to suggest ways to make things better, i do understand that. but not everyone has small obstacles. in fact i think my BFC at ante-natal classes said much the same thing.
I had big ma-hoosive obstacles, loads of them, that if i'd been seen earlier by a specialist bfing person (of which there are only two in the country!) could perhaps have been overcome. so as you can imagine i'd rather money went into training for bfcs in hospitals than on leaflets that may not be read.

I always thought that ma-la-leche was Mother -the - milk

as in la leche league - lll - non?

aitch - my screen name is very much tied in with where i live, its the most outstanding characteristic of the local people, they'll tell you this with pride themselves!
I'd quite like to change it as it looks like im something to do with La Leche League or something, which im obviously not
ok must go to bed, have 'wasted' another whole evening on MN!

no,

mala = bad
leche = milk

malaleche is an idiomic expression for what the OP says it is.