Gather round all pro-bfeeding anti-formula MNers I have a question..........................................

[Malaleche]

Shouldnt there be a be-all and end-all bible of breastfeeding info, experiences and statistics etc which every woman should be given at the first pregnancy check-up and MADE to read (yes, I know, maybe we could be examined on it and !) , which has been written by the WHO and breastfeeding experts and which could be the final and last word on bfeeding(...until new evidence means a new edition has to be brought out.....)

I just dont understand why there has to be so much conflicting advice out there and why some women are still so woefully ignorant about bfeeding at the end of the day....

I also agree absolutely that formula should be avaliable only on prescription but before that happens there needs to be a lot more education and (24 hr)support avaliable or there would be a lot of hungry babies and suffering mothers out there....and why don't govs give 9 months maternity leave on full pay if the WHO recommends 6 months exclusive bfeeding (am adding 3 months for establishing weaning)?

I think kids at secondary school should be educated about bf in the same way that they are educated about Sex & Relationships. I suggested to my dd's (male) science teacher that he might cover it during Breastfeeding Awareness Week but I don't think he did. I mentioned it at the school open evening (in the science dept) but it was clear the staff knew less about bf than I do.

Making formula available only on prescription is unworkable and would only cause ill-feeling, as many have pointed out.

What's needed is public education - starting at school and continuing through the media. We had AIDS awareness, drink/drive ads, giving up smoking and all have succeeded in changing attitudes, though not 100%. That would be too much to expect.

i would like to think it's a choice, but really it came down to cost.

i can't afford to formula feed or use disposible nappies.

it's only because there is so much money in it that companies don't want you to stop. and their advertising perpectuates the myth that formula feeding is natural, good for baby, a good choice on returning to work, convienent etc.
not only that but they like us to think that there is no alternative, how daft is that?

how many people say that they couldn't handle formula feeding their babies as it was too stressful and expensive?

i found it was too stressful having to prepare formula in the middle of the night, while trying to comfort an ever incressingly bad-tempered baby...

bf is a practised skill, but makes life so much easier!

Agree Elasticwoman.

I loathed formula feeding, I hated the hassle it was- extra jobs on an already full day, I resented the cost. It still didn't make it possible for me to feed ds3- however much I hated and loathed the hassle and expense. Having had 2 breastfed babies I was well aware of how much easier breastfeeding was. There wasn't an alternative. Formula or ds3 starved.

That sort of situation is rare though isn't it gess.

Not really. I've met plenty of others who have been in the same situation as me.

As I understood it, over 95% of women are physically able to breastfeed?

then, gess did you get formular on prescription?

i think the actual data is for 97%, but i'm not splitting hairs!

True, but the number of children with physical feeding issues is also small.....otherwise you are talking about other factors which can be overcome with the right advice and support.

I was more than physcially able to breastfeed. My milk didn;t come in. If someone had taken my 2 year old, and severely autistic 5 year old off my hands for a week to 10 days so I could sit and actually complete a feed without having to get up 6 times (I used to walk around the house feeding ds3, whilst lifting ds1 down from windows and high places) then maybe it would have. The chances of me following the go to bed and rest advice was zero. As my midwife (very pro breastfeeding) said "we have to be realistic here, about your situation".

I've met plenty of people who had similar sort of supply problems; often people who havge fed properly before.

Fio's point is a good one as well. A fiend with twins (her 3rd and 4th children). One twin fed well, one had tongue tie and it just didn't work out. She was a very experienced breastfeeder.

I'm not saying your situation wasn't a valid one, gess. Just that its pretty unusual and most of the time people can find a way around breastfeeding problems (of which there are many) with the right advice, support and committment.

i think key word here is support

i agree with elasticwoman, i think that young girls are so bright and cool when they're teenagers, that they could be so easily politicised about bfing at that age. the anti-nestle campaign was probably the first thing that ever got me thinking about bfing, although i'd seen my mum doing it. also it wouldn't do any harm to get boys thinking it was cool too.

No probs fio

Gess...your post of 14:19 looks dangerously like my 'ideal'...

I am still BFng my 2.5 yr old so I am not against BFing BUT you have no clue how bad it can be.

I had the most awful time BFing both kids and after having DD I was in hosp for 7 days so had loads of BFing support. The BFing expert there told be that my nipples were so traumatised she couldn't believe I was continuing. She knew my reasons were linked to DS having severe life threatening allergies. Apparently I have very large nipples (DP is happy with this ) and DD has small mouth. No amount of positioning helped and I had loads of advice from several different experts.

My nipples can still hurt over two years later. I had mastitis with DS and honestly it was no more painful than the daily agony. It affected my bonding with DS and ultimately contributed to his allergies ( I ate sesame seeds not knowing they transferred in the milk).

Until you experience the agony of painful breastfeeding you have not got a clue. I have in recent years had a drug free birth (no through choice) slipped a disc, had SI joint dysfunction and perforated an eardrum and only the slipped disc compared to the agony of Breastfeeding. I am sure that for some people changing position is the key but there are others where it will make bugger all difference.

Easily available Formula enabled me to continue breastfeeding and return to exclusive bf!

Without it I would have given up and probably developed PND!

Women in their first few weeks of being a mother should not have to jump through hoops and beurocracy to do what they believe is best for their family! They need FACTS!!!

Drosophila - are you me?????

I had the, er, um, nipple problem. My two had what people called "beautiful rosebud mouths/lips". They are beautiful rosebud shaped mouths, but they arent fantastic for b/feeding. I had thrush and mastitis with DS (my second) too.

Also SI joint dysfunction!!!!!!!

I've just read an article...i think i'll start another thread.....

could the op ask mnhq to at least change the thread title. you don't have to be anti-formula to be pro breast feeding. seeing this title in active convos just narks me. I think its unfair to those who tried and struggled, tried and had to combine feed, tried and had to ff, couldn't bf in the first place etc. As a tried, had to combine then failed totally I can do without the judgement that is implied in the thread title and to some extent the ops post (even though she has since clarified, some people might not get to read the clarification). Just because I gave my baby formula does not mean that I am stupid or ill informed or otherwise. I know very well that breast is best but until the proper support is there to help mothers breast feed successfully formula should be available. And even with full breast feeding support it should still be available because there will always be mum's like me and so many others on here who need it. And whilst it should be cheaper and unbranded (brilliant as usual Tiktok) it should not be on prescription why on earth would making it more difficult to obtain and attaching yet more social stigma to formula feeding help anyone. I usually stay away from these threads because I find them too much of a bun fight but there is some interesting debate on this one. I know tiktok suggested having it deleted earlier but I think a change in title and maybe an addendum added to the original post would be a good compromise. MN should be a place where we can debate these issues but can we please stop being so polarised in our description of this particular debate.

In answer to Sakura last night - it got to day 6 with me and ds1 had lost 26% of his birth weight and had dangerously high sodium levels as he was so dehydrated about (according to consultant) 10mins from a drip in NICU. I was still only producing colostrum. Spent another week in the maternity ward relaxed with a great bf counsellor but still no milk. I know expressing doesn't help but at least ds was getting the expressed colostrum and then topped up ds's latch was amazing but nothing happened. No-one could find any medical reasons as to why - there is apparently a very small percentage of women to whom this happens and guess that was me. I didn't stress about it then and never will. I certainly won't make any apologies for saving the life of my ds1 by giving him the "dreaded" formula.

EXACTLY - "you don't have to be anti-formula to be pro breast feeding" - that is just the point I have being trying to make. And in RL NOONE gets in such a state about it like we do here - virtually everyone I know has mixed fed - I know 2 people out of 100's who exclusively bf. It (mixed feeding) can't be that bad or there would be a nation of very ill children. Obviously exclusive bf is the ideal to which we should all strive but I think plenty of people here have demonstrated that it is not always possible for many different reasons despite our wishes. People who did manage it shouldn't stigmatises those that couldn't imo and it only happens on Mumsnet.

I'll ask again for this thread to be changed or deleted - the title is so tactless and it leads people to feel angry and stigmatised....and it's so bloody unnecessary as the vast majority of people recognise the complexities of infant feeding.

Malaleche - please think about this. And maybe next time, think carefully about how you word things...sorry to sound bossy, but can't think of a better way to say it!

I am the OP and I have asked for this thread to be deleted as it has offended or upset so many people. This was not my intention, far from it but I admit the title was unfortunate and inflamatory. I am not going to explain what my intention was as lots of other people have already covered it more eloquently than I could in their posts on this thread.
Apologies again and I will (try to)stay off this topic from now on, but I won't stop wishing that all mothers could be given the information and support they need to bfeed.

Before the thread is deleted I just wanted to say Pruni, your experience sounds almost exactly like mine . And Tinymum - there are many women on here who have been unable to breastfeed successfully despite doing everything in their power to make it work.