Gather round all pro-bfeeding anti-formula MNers I have a question..........................................

[Malaleche]

Shouldnt there be a be-all and end-all bible of breastfeeding info, experiences and statistics etc which every woman should be given at the first pregnancy check-up and MADE to read (yes, I know, maybe we could be examined on it and !) , which has been written by the WHO and breastfeeding experts and which could be the final and last word on bfeeding(...until new evidence means a new edition has to be brought out.....)

I just dont understand why there has to be so much conflicting advice out there and why some women are still so woefully ignorant about bfeeding at the end of the day....

I also agree absolutely that formula should be avaliable only on prescription but before that happens there needs to be a lot more education and (24 hr)support avaliable or there would be a lot of hungry babies and suffering mothers out there....and why don't govs give 9 months maternity leave on full pay if the WHO recommends 6 months exclusive bfeeding (am adding 3 months for establishing weaning)?

Yes one GP, at the 8 week check up, recommended supplementing dd2 with formula for the old 'sleep through the night' trick!!

Oh dear - not the 'formula should be available on prescription' arguement. Please lets knock that one on the head.

Why should mothers need to see doctor to get formula? Because doctors know a huge amount about infant feeding and always know when to advise the use of formula? Eh?

No - formula should be cheap, unbranded and readily available for whoever wants it, at the same time as mothers should be able to rely on decent, consistent and well-informed, easily accessible bf knowledge and support.

And we really, really do not want more leaflets....

And I am not anti formula just because I recognise the need for mothers to have better bf support.

It just strikes me as a little unfair that I've been able to get shedloads of E45, special bath oil, aqueous cream, you name it for nothing on prescription. Yet I had to pay a fortune to the formula companies to feed my DS. Until such time as cheap, unbranded formula is available, I for one would like to be able to get it on prescription.

LGJ a confirmed formual feeder, reaches over and hugs TikTok.

This is probably a bit of a hijack - how does one become a BF mentor / supporter (on number 3 now and would love to help others)

Norma, start a new thread on this, it would be better.

Will do now - ta

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(CL? Who are you?? It's nice to be welcomed back but I dunno who you are!)

Is CL VVVQV?

The thought of midwives and HVs prescribing formula also fills me with horror.....

i know what you meant, twinkle. i think i was paying £7 a tub for dd's formula but my friend whose son had a milk allergy was getting his milk for free. presumably it would have cost the £9 mentioned before, yes, but that's only £2 more than i was paying and my child also had a medical need not to starve to death as i was incapable of feeding her all by myself.

i'm not arguing for milk by prescription, just that it needn't cost so bloody much in the first place, whether you've got allergies or not. tbh the companies are cheeky piss-taking fuckers either way, and i'm not 100% sure that any subsidies shouldn't be made across the board so that life-saving milk costs the same for all...

But they kind of do already Tiktok, like CL said.

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Didn't they already suss this in Norway in the 70s (can't remember exactly) and they increased maternity leave to a year and had trained professionals to ensure that everyone who wanted support had it. Now Norwegian BF rates are really high when in the 70s they were the same as the UK.

I do believe that part of the problem is culture and that's what needs to change (alongside the support obv). When some people feel it's perfectly reasonable to make women who are breastfeedign in public uncomfortable - and some bf women feel that it's OK to make FF people uncomfortable - then we have a problem.

And - sorry forgot zbout this bit - I agree that throwing money at it is the answer. Pay women to take longer off work so that they can bf for longer, pay companies so that women can take breaks (and have rooms/fridges at work) to express milk, pay for proper training for bf counsellors/peer supporters/GPs/other health professionals etc. who need to know what they're talking about. And be strict about implementation and don't do it as a PR stunt.
There's something else (that I can't remember either!) about the number of cases of ear infections/gastroenteritis etc. that could be prevented and therefore not treated by the NHS that this would effectively pay for itself. But as I have such a sketchy view on the whole thing, I'm hoping that someone else might come along and be more useful!

I think its not up to the individual woman. For example, Twinklemegans post. I agree that no woman should be criticised for formula feeding, because breastfeeding didnt work out for her. But I just dont believe that womens breasts do not work, and other reasons Ive heard, like there wasnt enough milk, or mastitis etc. In the UK, the support is just not available.

In Japan where I had DD, the woman co-sleeps with the baby in the hospital if she wants to, in order to encourage breastfeeding. Then for the 5-10 days she is there, she will have a daily visit from a lactation specialist to have a breast "massage", where the lady clears out all the milk ducts and lets the milk spray everywhere (it feels lovely afterwards). Then shell check your latch on both sides, and suggest positions etc. I got so much advice, but not pushed onto me, only if I asked. You visit there every 2 weeks after the birth <span class="italic">just</span> to check how your breastfeeding is getting along. Not for the baby or anything, but just for the health of your breasts. Then if you have any problem, you can call directly and youll be seen that day and theyll check your breasts and give advice. How many more women in the UK would be breastfeeding with this kind of support? But I agree a manual would be better than nothing. (Although to be fair, things are changing rapidly here in Japan because the formula manufacturers are really going for the hard-sell here. My friend got lots of formula from her hospital, and was told to mark on a sheet when she fed her baby. B was for breastfeeding, and M (Milk) was for formula. Her sheet was full of Bs, and the nurse asked why, and she said because she was only breastfeeding, and the nurse told her she <span class="italic">had</span> to also give MILK as well as breastmilk . She ignored them, but how many women listen? I dont hate women who feed formula to their babies but I HATE the formula companies for what they are doing)

tiktok - you are always the voice of reason . I'm truly glad I never felt guilty about having to ff my ds (no milk came in). Prescription only wow - absolutely not. Cheaper and unbranded oh yes. Those of you who can bf successfully are very lucky but don't overlook those of us who couldn't for physical reasons. I'm sure I'm not alone.

alipiggie, Can I ask about the "no milk came in"?
A womans milk comes in on the third or sometimes fourth day <span class="italic">after</span> the birth. Until then it is just a bit of colostrum that keeps the baby going. The baby is supposed to lose weight during this time. While you wait for your milk to come in, youre not supposed to give any formula or even water at all, because that can affect your supply. So that means three to four days of no milk and not feeding any formula.
I wonder if some women with no advice start giving formula on the second or third day, thinking they have no milk. If the baby doesn`t suck regularly on the breast during this time too, the milk supply may be too low, and then the vicious cycle starts...

Sorry, I re-read that and wish the tone had been lighter. It just upsets me really, that women arenT being given proper advice from the medical establishments. Do you know that formula manufacturers sponsor midwives conferences and supply hospitals with equipment? In return the hospitals are supposed to push formula onto new mothers.

I know a woman whose milk didn't come in. Not on the third or fourth or fifth day or even later. It does happen. I couldn't tell you why and neither could she and nobody at the hospital or during her follow-up told her or asked her about it. (Mind you she didn't ask either as far as I can tell.)

Sakura I am super impressed byt the japanese way of getting b/f going. We will never get that sort of attention here though, it's ingrained in our culture that we make do, battle through, stand on our own two feet. I would have loved it though and I bet I'm not alone!

I so disagree with formula on prescription.

Hey, we can already get headache pills on the NHS...the system is already going broke.

It would actually ENCOURAGE bottle-feeding too, if it was on prescription.

Now, at least, some people are encouraged to breastfeed from the economic point of view, if it were free, then that would be sending out completely the wrong message.

BTW, I bf DS1 till he was 15 months old, and my second combined till he was 6 months. He has done a lot better since he was having a bottle...

Of course I am only referring to where it's not needed for "medical reasons", when it SHOULD be on prescription and therefore free!