I'm in a state over whether to BF DD or not

[CremeDeSudo]

Can someone help pls?

DD is 9 days old, born at 36wks. Until my milk came in I hand expressed colostrum and topped up with formula. Once my milk came in I started feeding with nipple shields as her mouth is so small and she gets tired easily.

Then she lost 11% of birth weight and MW advised waking to feed every 3-4 hrs, boob then formula top up. Only offer boob during the day(when she's hungriest and most awake), express for other feeds 10 mins on each boob. We've somehow stopped offering the boob at all for fear she's not going to take the formula so I've basically just been pumping twice a day.

She's almost regained her weight now but the plan continues.

Another MW has told me I need to be expressing 10-12 times a day to keep my supply up (which already seems to be dwindling).

I don't know whether to continue with trying to BF. I hate pumping. I really hate it. I loved the feeling of feeding her but now I'm solely pumping and don't know how long I'll have to continue to do so.

Also, I'm really struggling with spending such little time with DS and being unable to hug him due to engorgement.

Selfishly, I also really don't like the way my boobs look, how big they are. The let down pain is horrible. I don't want them to look like deflated balloons in the future. I don't like the leaking and the constant stickiness. I've been desperate to feel like myself again after a shit pregnancy and MMC before that but I don't know if I will if I'm BF'ing.

I think I've decided to stop but then I cry because I still want the closeness etc. And I love that I can settle her instantly. I also have a bad case of baby blues. I wonder if I'm quitting too soon but then I can't face all that pumping either. I'm so torn about what to do and I can't stop crying about it! Can someone tell me what to do pls?

Can you access a feeding support group and/or lactation consultant?

I had milk delay and DD had 13% weight loss as I wasn't told to supplement with formula, (she was a 38 weeker though and pretty big), I kept putting her to breast first, then formula top up (plus any expressed milk although I gave up pumping after two weeks as hated it).

Pumping is grim though so no wonder you're feeling fed up! Have you been signed over from midwives to HV yet?

You can still feel close with bottle feeding. It's OK to decide to formula feed.

It sounds hard for you.

Problem with formula top ups is it messes with the supply and it ends up
Diminishing your milk often. Are you sure baby is not tongue tied as the falling asleep is a sign (and weight loss). I agree pumping is not much fun. Maybe TT need snipping? I had this with my first ? They are working too hard due to the TT that they sleep. Is there a clicking noise? Indicates TT as latch is poor around the nipple and is letting air in.

Also ongoing sore nipples are a sign too.

I'm currently trying out an electric one and hoping it'll be easier.

HV is coming Tuesday.

I don't know if it'll be too late by the time I can get to a group as I'm not driving yet. Are there groups where someone will come to the house?

Whilst I do feel that ‘breast is best’, your mental and physical health is so much more important. You are doing absolutely everything you can for your baby and if formula feeding is what works for you and your lo then there is no reason to feel guilty. She has had the most important colostrum and you can still get the closeness from bottle feeding.

I went to a local breastfeeding group for help, saw a breastfeeding consultant at the hospital and rang the la lech league help line. They were all fantastic and really helped me get through a really tricky start if you really want to persevere you could look for additional support but if it does not work out then be confident in the knowledge you are doing the absolute best for your baby by ensuring she is fed - however that is.

Could you try 100% to the breast and skip the expressing?

But whatever you do, dont add on any guilt to it. You do what you need to do to get through it.

If you're not enjoying bf, don't do it. I did all that with my first and when #2 came along I said no way...I wasted those precious first weeks worrying about it all and sent myself into pnd. Switched at day 5 with her and it's been an absolute dream. Just do what works for your family.

Sending 🌷
Can you see if you have an nct breastfeeding counsellor locally? They are free and amazing!
You sound exhausted.. I would knock the pumping on the head and either bf with top ups or just ff. (with my twins I combo fed both until 10 weeks but one was mostly ff as she was just so hungry!)

My dd was also born at 36 weeks, lost around 11% and had jaundice that needed treating. She managed to feed effectively after a week of trying and we stuck to every 3 hours schedule night and day, no top ups. Remained a bit jaundiced for a while. I honestly think if you are going to keep topping up it will be hard for you to produce what she needs, and I agree that pumping is a total faff. I don’t understand why MW would advise you to be expressing whilst not actually feeding her form the boob? It sounds a bit pointless and like the worst of all worlds. It sounds to me like you’ve already made up your mind if you’re no longer offering her the breast? If you don’t like feeding don’t feel pressured to do it, your baby will thrive on formula. I will say though that once it all settles down into a regular pattern (and you ditch the pumping) it is possible to feel like you again, no leaking, no saggy boobs (infact mine seem slightly perkier than before). Pumping is possibly giving you a bad impression, as it’s very hard not to feel like a prize cow whilst you’re on a schedule with it. Did you b/f DS?

You sound like me, eighteen months ago.

I did a baby moon- stay at home on the sofa, topless with baby on my boobs for several days. Skin to skin is a great way to boost supply. Keep yourself hydrated and well fed- worry about your figure once you've got your supply established- one thing at a time.

I used nipple shields too. Once DS hit eight weeks he was strong enough to learn (and he did have to learn) to feed without them. That was a tough two days.

Feed, feed, feed! The quickest and most effective way to establish breastfeeding is to breastfeed.

Will your baby latch on? I would urgently see an infant feeding midwife of bf consultant, see if you can breastfeed without expressing. If your baby doesn’t than carry on with formula or feeding- sounds like they are growing and thriving which is great. I think it is worth getting some help before you decide to stop- it’s still early days.

Also- I didn't use a breast pump until much later- not a good way to establish supply in my view. It's just putting another barrier up.

Can you keep trying to BF if that is what you feel is right for you? I had nothing to give DD after an induction at 39 weeks and moved to formula on a midwife's advice after a week. In hindsight, it was too soon and I deeply regretted the decision. I blame that for contributing to my failure to bond with DD and am still suffering 18 months later.

Obviously I am not saying this might happen to you, but more trying to encourage you to persevere if it's instinctively what you want to do. The first few weeks are miserable and it's so very hard if you're not get good help. I wish you every success however you proceed

Yes, pumping is grim, especially at only 9 days in.
Its usual for breastfed babies to lose weight in the early days. If you formula feed you won't keep up the supply, so you need to be cutting that right down, and offering breast first every time. If you can keep feeding the encouragement will reduce, although it hard to start off a feed if you are too engorged!
Cabbage leaves down your bra help, but my best tip is buy some breast shells. You put them in your bra, and the slight pressure makes you leak, thus reducing enforcement enough to let you feed.
Feed every time you feel the enforcement, before it gets too hard.
Don't underestimate the amount of time a baby can spend feeding, particularly as yours was a little early. At 36 weeks the suck might not be so strong, and the baby will need little and often ( which can feel like 24/7). Make sure that you have plenty to drink yourself.
But try the shells, Mothercare do them, also Avent.
Don't quit, especially as you enjoy the closeness, which in turn will stimulate supply. Just keep the baby on the boob all the time. Like the midwife said, wake the baby to feed every 3 hours or so if she sleeps for long stretches. If you keep formula feeding your supply will dwindle, but it can be built up again.
Good luck and keep posting, there's loads of people on here who have managed all thiscsuccessfully, much more recentlyvthan me.
And Penelope Leach' s book,probably about 25 years old now, has a great section on breastfeeding.

I think that all this expressing is wearing you down. You will end up feeling like a milk machine. Why do you need to express? Why not try feeding her when your breasts are engorged? It does sound like you have a good supply if they are like that! If you need to you can always top up with formula.

That's brilliant that she has gained the weight back!!

So many responses thank you ladies!

Ok, DS. I tried but he had a tongue tie that was missed and I have flat nipples. I was told his latch was good even though I knew it wasn't. His blood sugars dropped. My milk took 6 days to come in. By the time it did I was terrified to let him near me, shields helped but then I had a panic attack over it all and switched. Absolutely the right decision.

She can't seem to latch yet, probably due to the flat nipples and her small mouth. No problems at all with a shield however so my intention was to use those until she's a bit bigger.

MW said she has a slight tongue tie. Tbh this really scares me given my experience with DS. I don't think I can bring myself to get it snipped.

Given that my supply seems to be dwindling already, I feel cruel making her suck and suck when there's bugger all there and she's so sleepy and we're struggling getting feeds into her.

The electric pump is better than the manual one but still not great!

I've got shells, they're great if only to help avoid stickiness!!

DH is now upset with me for putting pressure on myself again when I swore I wouldn't. I don't think I can let myself quit without being able to say I gave it a good go though. I'm hoping I'm being dramatic due to baby blues!

I had two small babies, 5lb 2 born 36+4 and 5lb 4 born 37+2. With both of them I had to really "hamburger" my boob and shovel the nipple into their teeny mouths.

I would really recommend a lactation consultant if you can. Can someone drive you to a group?

Expressing is so exhausting. Hugs. It's OK to bottle feed too if that keeps everyone happy and fed x

Did you have to stay in hospital? At 9 days post birth I had only been home 2 days with mine. Hated it but now realise that I was probably really lucky to have the support to hand. I do think it would be worth you seeing a lacto consultant to persue all avenues of hands on help. Local b/f support group should have a visiting one or can put you in touch. Most importantly don’t beat yourself up whatever the outcome.

I only stayed in overnight this time. I stayed in 3 nights when struggling with DS and it was awful. I didn't want to repeat that.

I'm not even at the point of worrying about latch yet, I just don't know how to progress from here.

I should clarify that I haven't been pumping that much- that's what I've been told I should do to keep up my supply. I'm not sure I can bring myself to do it as I hate doing it a couple times a day, let alone that many!

There's that plus all my negative (more selfish) feelings on it.

Then I come back to loving the actual feeding, and feeling like I should give it a proper go before quitting.

My Mum said to keep going til the blues goes in case I'm just feeling down. DH thinks my hormones are making me want to keep going and rational me would know formula is best for us.

I'm so bloody conflicted about it. 😢

Just to say I've seen your post this morning. You do sound awful tired. One foot in front of the other today and try to get some rest. I'm willing you on today!

“MW said she has a slight tongue tie. Tbh this really scares me given my experience with DS. I don't think I can bring myself to get it snipped.”

Why on earth not? Given that you already had a baby with tongue tie, you know what a negative impact on feeding it can have. You are making life hard for you and your baby by refusing to get the tongue tie snipped. It’s a very simple, straightforward procedure, a tiny amount of discomfort for a tiny length of time, and it will probably make feeding much much easier. If it enables you to continue breastfeeding, so much the better. But it will be beneficial even if you switch full time to bottles.

Just get the tongue tie snipped. And get some proper advice, contact one or two of the helplines and see if a breastfeeding counsellor can come to you.

FWIW I think you need to stop expressing, it’s miserable and it won’t help your supply. If you want to continue breastfeeding you need to get the tongue tie snipped so baby can empty your breasts effectively, and then just do a lot of skin to skin and let her feed as much as she wants. And stop the formula top ups (probably best to cut down gradually if she’s having a lot formula atm).

If you want to give up and switch to formula that’s absolutely fine. But if you’re not ready to give up yet please please get the tongue tie snipped and give breastfeeding a proper go.

Remember that you are doing fantastically- your baby is nearly back to her birth weight at less than 10 days old! If you want to switch to ff completely that's honestly fine- do it and don't look back. But if you do want to carry on bf, then I would ignore the advice you've been given ( bearing in mind that ff is ready and waiting) and just let her feed and feed and feed. You say you don't like letting her suck and suck, but that's what she's programmed to do. She's an instinct driven little animal and she will get the biofeedback bf loop going so much more effectively than any machine can. How about giving yourself a date-say this Sunday evening- when you'll reassess, and beteeen now and then just keep her breast as much as you can. Take all the help you can. Let your little boy cuddle up next to you and watch endless telly. Tell him his little sister told you he should be allowed to. Don't forget to eat and drink yourself. And just see how it goes.

I agree with NameChange. Get in touch with a tongue tie practitioner ASAP, get it snipped and get some proper advice (TT practitioner will also be a lactation consultant). That is really the only way you will know you've given it a proper go.

What makes you think your supply is poor? Because you mention engorged breasts, which suggests lots of milk, but also thinking that you don't have much milk.

My baby had a small posterior tie and fed much more easily after it was snipped. It was quick, she had probably cried for longer having a messy nappy changed.

If her tongue tie is snipped she may be able to feed directly without a nipple shield, which will massively help.