I'm in a state over whether to BF DD or not

[CremeDeSudo]

Can someone help pls?

DD is 9 days old, born at 36wks. Until my milk came in I hand expressed colostrum and topped up with formula. Once my milk came in I started feeding with nipple shields as her mouth is so small and she gets tired easily.

Then she lost 11% of birth weight and MW advised waking to feed every 3-4 hrs, boob then formula top up. Only offer boob during the day(when she's hungriest and most awake), express for other feeds 10 mins on each boob. We've somehow stopped offering the boob at all for fear she's not going to take the formula so I've basically just been pumping twice a day.

She's almost regained her weight now but the plan continues.

Another MW has told me I need to be expressing 10-12 times a day to keep my supply up (which already seems to be dwindling).

I don't know whether to continue with trying to BF. I hate pumping. I really hate it. I loved the feeling of feeding her but now I'm solely pumping and don't know how long I'll have to continue to do so.

Also, I'm really struggling with spending such little time with DS and being unable to hug him due to engorgement.

Selfishly, I also really don't like the way my boobs look, how big they are. The let down pain is horrible. I don't want them to look like deflated balloons in the future. I don't like the leaking and the constant stickiness. I've been desperate to feel like myself again after a shit pregnancy and MMC before that but I don't know if I will if I'm BF'ing.

I think I've decided to stop but then I cry because I still want the closeness etc. And I love that I can settle her instantly. I also have a bad case of baby blues. I wonder if I'm quitting too soon but then I can't face all that pumping either. I'm so torn about what to do and I can't stop crying about it! Can someone tell me what to do pls?

Perhaps it's not then? I thought it was because the engorgement is less and I've managed to express less.

Ok, do you think this would be ok?

MW is back on Monday so I will carry on with her advice til then (although increase the expressing as it's not as bad with the electric one) hopefully she will have regained her weight and DH and I can be reassured.

In the meantime I'll investigate a consultant who can advise what i should do going forward and check tongue tie. Do they always need to be snipped? I'm not comfortable with that at all and nor is DH.

Then from Monday onwards I'll camp out on the sofa with her. DS will be in school so I won't have to feel guilty and DH back in work so he can't tell me off or stress about how much she's feeding/not feeding.

Does that sound ok?

www.nationalbreastfeedinghelpline.org.uk

Sorry to just drop this and run but they helped me x

Your plan sounds good OP, but challenging! Expressing is so tough, especially at this early stage. If I were you I would start camping out on the sofa and feeding as much as possible asap. Put the telly on for your other child, it's only a few days, they'll love it and be fine. I would also get on the phone to one of the breastfeeding helplines now, and call them as much as you need to today and over the weekend - don't wait till Monday to do this. You're right in the toughest period, made much more tough because of the suspected tongue tie and the need to pump. Get through this next week and it will all start to get easier.

Also in my experience the tongue tie is much easier to deal with if snipped. My first had a "slight tongue tie" which the midwives didn't think need to be snipped. I kept breastfeeding him for 5 months but it was tough - he never seemed satisfied and I was having to feed hourly even up till then. Second time round I paid for a private lactation consultant to check and snip my baby's tongue tie when she was about a week old and the feeding instantly became easier and less painful for me. 5 months in she's an expert and feeds are quick and efficient. Honestly I was quite worried about doing it but the snip literally took about a second, she cried, I immediately put her on the boob and she was calm within a few seconds.

Creme- I honestly think that if you hate expressing it will just be upsetting to force yourself to do it. I understand- I hated it too. And you and your baby have got to get used to each other. If you feel that this is your last go before deciding to go with formula, then your best bet really Is to feed as much as you can. She needs to stimulate your supply- and she will. Her “monkey brain” knows what to do! You’ve honestly got nothing to lose. Tell your dh to focus on your ds so you don’t feel guilty about him, and on bringing you drinks and nice food and just give it a go.

Ok so your plan is to ignore all our advice until at least Monday?

If you categorically don’t want to get the tongue tie snipped you might as well give up on the idea of breastfeeding now.

Babies without tongue tie are much more efficient at getting milk out of your breasts than any breast pump. Low pumping yield does not indicate low supply.

You might have low supply because you haven’t actually been breastfeeding, you’ve been giving formula and some expressed breast milk. The only way to increase supply is to BREASTFEED.

If DH is “telling you off” tell him to piss off and start being supportive. Are there no breastfeeding drop ins or group he could drive you to today?

There’s some good information about tongue tie including a link to an extensive guide for parents at sarahoakleylactation.co.uk/tongue-tie/

Namechange. That was unnecessary. The OP doesn’t have to follow anyone’s advice. And the jury is still out on slight tongue tie, so berating her about that is a bit pointless.

Just to agree with the advice about trying to nurse as much as possible without pumping, if you want to breastfeed. The advice I was given from midwives after my (also small) son was born, was not to pump until breastfeeding was established. I had a lactation consultant from the Council come to my house and it was amazingly helpful, and he had regained his birth weight at 10 days without incident. Nursing sessions with a newborn do sometimes seem like they don't end, especially if you can rest / relax and let them sleep cuddling you in between 'feeds' -- they kind of blurred together for me in the early days. Watching telly with your son cuddling next to you might work? Of course if you want to switch to formula, by all means, do so. Anything works if she's being fed!

Of course she doesn’t have to follow our advice.
And I don’t think the “jury is out” on the tongue tie at all. Most midwives miss it completely, so if the OP’s midwife spotted it, it must be pretty clear cut. With the feeding difficulties and weight loss it adds up. Of course only a tongue tie practitioner or lactation consultation who sees the baby and does a proper tt assessment can actually diagnose it and advise whether division is recommended.
I’m not berating the OP at all. I’m just saying if she refuses to divide the tongue tie she might as well save herself the heartache and stop trying to breastfeed - with tongue tie, it’s a losing battle.

My son had tongue tie. I was miserable. Feeding was excruciating, he fed for hours and hours, I got mastitis. Finally a breastfeeding counsellor diagnosed tongue tie (after all the midwives and HVs missed it) then we got a tt practitioner to do an assessment. She recommended division so we did it. We haven’t looked back. Breastfeeding has been easy and enjoyable ever since. 15 months and still going.

Cross post. I was replying to Bertrand.

Thank you all.

Re the tongue tie, when DS had his and tried to feed my nipple was lipstick shaped. I saw a consultant and she implied it was still possible to feed but he had to learn to do it properly. When we've managed to latch DD on my nipple was flat, so it can't be that bad can it?

DH just doesn't want me to get in s state again. I was hysterical with DS. He doesn't want that to happen again and from his pov I'm just crying about it all the time again! It has to be what's best for all of us at the end of the day doesn't it? I thought it might best to stick with the advice I've been given by the only professional I've seen in real life!

I've put her on my boob with a shield now. I love it 😊 going to call the national bf helpline. Will let you know what they say. Thank you everyone x

Good luck, Op. I feel for you. My baby was very small at 2kg and it was very difficult to make her latch especially with her tiny mouth. I did breast, formula top up and pumping every three hours day and night and that was really really tough. I pumped as often as I can not to get as much milk out but just to increase my supply so it was only 5-10 min at a time and it worked!

I made record of her feeds and wee/poo and I could see her formula feeds were gradually going down without affecting her wee/poo so I did the three days of 'locked in' breast feeding as some already said here. Afterward I didn't need to do anymore formula or pumping! Your breasts will need time to get used to it so might get slight engorgement after but that wasn't too bad. I was glad I stuck to it as I hated formula prep and pumping.

Hope this helps!

I would follow the advice of those saying to spend the next few days bf and focus only on that! Get your husband to stock you up on supplies and get a good movie (or 5!) on the tv and feed!

Hopefully your DH can take your DS out for the day today and tomorrow and leave you to it. Have a good cry if you need to, it helps to get it all out.

I would honestly feed first and then pump if you have to. As an aside I pumped only if I was going out for the day etc and if j was feeling stressed the milk supply wouldn't be as plentiful as the times I pumped and felt relaxed.

Speak to your DH about supporting you in this, make him part of the team :)
You can do this!!

So glad you’re feeding her. Maybe try without the shields too? Just keep going- let her little monkey brain do it’s thing!

Unfortunately the nipple shouldn’t be flat when she latches on, no. Ideally it should go kind of conical shaped.

Glad you decided to call the helpline, I hope they were reassuring and helpful.

You mentioned the “baby blues” and crying all the time, have you spoken to your midwife about that? Hopefully your mood will improve as your hormones stabilise but please don’t hesitate to reach out for support if you continue to feel like this.

My 3rd child lost 15% of birthweight by day 3 and I felt awful about it!

I was on the 3 hourly feed, top up, pump cycle too OP and it was really difficult. I only kept going because I was so determined to breastfeed her, if you’re not certain it must be even harder!

Once she regained her birthweight I started feeding on demand and only pumped 2 or 3 times a day (and not through the night). I stopped pumping at all around 3 months and was able to feed her for 18 months or so.

She had a posterior tongue tie that wasn’t snipped until 12 weeks, it made such a huge difference to how efficient she was at feeding, I really would consider getting your dd’s snipped.

I found nipple shields difficult too (had flat nipples with my first) I only wore them long enough for the nipple to be drawn out then took them off and fed directly.

Good luck

Good luck op. Pumping is horrible, I never got anywhere with it.

But BF can be lovely once the baby is a bit bigger and feeding is established.

It doesn't sound to me like you want to give up on it, it sound like everyone from your husband to your mum is pressuring you and you're overwhelmed.

Your husband shouldn't dismiss the 'hormones' that make you want to feed your baby, those hormones are meant to be there and they help with bonding.

Hang in there and good luck x

They were very nice and have given me the number of someone local to me who I've called and left a voicemail. She told me that to begin with I should try to make ff'ing more like bf'ing ie little and often, give her a bit of formula, then encourage her on the boob, then more formula if I think she hasn't had enough. Have a baby moon etc.

DH says he 'doesn't understand' what we're meant to do and is fed up of talking about it and is being a dick now tbh. I know he's tired but ffs.

She also suggested a professional consultant might be the best way to go. It's a lot of money to spend when I'm not sure about the other parts of BF'ing though. I don't think DH will be keen tbh.

I have totally been here. I persisted with bf and mix fed for a year. This website really helped me kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mother/rev_pressure_soft_cotterman/.

When dd2 was born she breastfed like a dream - I reckon it was a combination of dd1 having popped my nipples out and crucially Dd2 has a massive mouth!! Sometimes ask the things come together to make it hard.

In all honesty it nearly sent me nuts. I also experienced a weird feeling of desolation whenever I breastfed. I am not sure I would persist again. Don't give up because your husband tells you to but if YOU want to stop struggling, please give yourself permission. Bf is not lovely for everyone.

Fair enough. I would honestly drop formula and expressing for a while and see what happens. You really have nothing to lose. And I would tell your dh to take ds out to lunch and leave you on your own for a bit. But you must do whatever feels best for you. The baby will be fine whatever you decide, and your dh will get over his little strop. It's what's best for you that's important.

I've just reread your OP and wanted to add that as far as sagginess is concerned, my boobs are actually much less saggy than they were pre kids! Can't say pert cos they're too huge (and always were) but I love them now.

Agree the private lactation consultants are not cheap but honestly it was money well spent for me. I found one who did tongue tie division too (she works a day a week at nearby hospital doing this) and think she charged me something like £150 for 2 hr visit plus tongue tie division. It was probably the difference between quitting and continuing for me, and I desperately wanted to continue, so money was no object. When I think about all the other expensive baby shit I bought that has barely been used it was very good value!

Husbands can be pretty unhelpful at this stage, I have found Give him the job of occupying your other child for the next few days, set up camp in front of the telly with Netflix and a large supply of your favourite food and drinks and just feed constantly. If you're open to it, I'd really recommend feeding lying on your side so you can have a safe nap too. Your lactation consultant can show you how to do this if you get a visit. I'd agree with the other posters saying ditch the pumping for a few days if you feel you can, it's bloody hard work.

I found in the early weeks it helped me to set myself a target date that I would get to, then I'd reconsider whether to switch to formula. Some days it would just be 9am the next morning, then I started to move to a few days ahead, then next week, then it was six months. I'm at 5.5 months now and wondering whether I can get to a year..