I am ashamed of myself for being so judgemental.

[Gingerbear]

A mum from DD's school had a baby last week. I saw her yesterday and was chatting to her about all things baby. Then she got out a bottle and filled it with a carton of formula. I felt my heart sink and I thought, oh no, she hasn't even tried to breastfeed. I was about to say, 'I will be breastfeeding again next time' but held my tongue. I have no idea about her views, if she had problems with breastfeeding and I don't know her well enough to broach the subject.
It is such a personal issue, and so easy to offend someone. I just feel so sad and frustrated at myself for being unable to speak to her.

I am not offering pity.
I am expressing sadness.

whether she couldn't or wouldn't, both reasons make me feel sad.

Can't be bothered reading whole thread
But I think everyone should try but I can't make them .
But I hate the thought that anyone of you could have looked at me like you have done these women.
I fed Dd1 until she was 13months and she stopped herself.When dd2 was born I was very ill and fed her for the first three days (m/w would wake me and more or less hold her and everything) BUT then I had to have scans , radioactive dye injected and numerous other procedures that meant I was not allowed to breast feed .Unfortunatly dd2 was a month old when I found out I could have restarted if I'd expressed a kept my supply going

when i gave birth last month, i was the only one breastfeeding my newborn in a bay of 6 women. that made me sad but i have no way of knowing reasons behind people's decisions and wouldnt comment.

Ooh GB - bet you didn't expet this many replies so soon after posting!

and to clarify, my sadness is because of the 5 women on the ward i think 2 had tried to b/f but struggled and the midwives were too busy to help them so they gave up and went straigh to ff.

havent read the whole post but just scrolled down a bit and saw lots of [posts] and dont want to get a rollicking myself

only read the op

If it had been me and you had said it to me I would probably have lamped you

I was unable to breastfeed due to drugs I was on for Crohn's disease which did not cross the placenta but did affect my milk. I was terribly upset by this but I would probably have ended up hospitalised for a long time if I had stopped them to breastfeed.

Maybe this mother was in a similar position?

Judge ye not

I am sad in the same way as hunker. It's perfectly possible to be sad without being judgemental.

I also feel very strongly that I have the right to think whatever I like about other people's parenting decisions, including the right to be extremely judgemental. It's my head - no-one can tell me what to think.

However, that's just the right to be judgemental in my thinking, not my words or my actions. Unfortunately a lot of people don't make the same distinction.

Gosh, what a horrible thread. I didn't breastfeed, I had a VERY traumatic birth with dd, gave it a go, it didn't work so I didn't do it. I don't regret it, I did what I could do and didn't beat myself up about it. I couldn't think about the birth for ages without crying. You don't know this woman's circumstances.

I hate all this judging around feeding, I really do.

Part II (Sorry, had to go away)

..but although I believe I have every right to think judgemental thoughts, actually I don't do this much. I think it's a very limiting way of looking at other people.

I also think that when I'm being judgemental I'm sometimes just expressing an insecurity of my own, so I tend to stamp on that hard. (Q: Can you stamp on something inside your own head? )

i think it's impossible not to have an opinion on this, and if your opinion is that breastfeeding is the best possible start you can give to a baby then you're bound to feel a wee bit sad when you see a new fresh life being fed with second-best.

i know for a fact that when dd was born, before the docs told me that she wasn't getting enough milk and that i would have to top her up or risk damaging her kidneys, i was out in a cafe and i saw another young woman formula feeding a baby of the same age as dd.

i felt, frankly, like i was doing a little bit better than that woman. and she pulled out her bottle a little hesitantly so i don't think she was feeling too fabby about it either.

ooooh, how little i knew...

a week later i was that woman, topping up my precious daughter's food with formula. and i was gutted to be doing it.

so having seen it from both sides i'd have to say that just like gingerbear i have felt judgemental (not poisonously so, just a teeny internal hum of superiority) but then i've also felt judged. which sucks.

but unless you truly acknowledge how difficult bfing is and also that there are some people for whom it's not possible then it's easy to judge people. i know i was completely ignorant when i judged that poor woman in the cafe, just didn't have A CLUE what was in store for me.

i don't think GB has done anything wrong in admitting that she felt judgemental, she didn't say anything to the woman, and she's plainly saying that she's not in love with herself for saying it as she knows that bfing isn't easy.

i know that the debate has wandered a bit since then, but i'd hate to think that gingerbear was being held to account for anything other than her OP. so that's my rather long opinion on the matter .

Before I say this, I just wanna say sorry again for going off on one earlier. DH is away on exercise and I'm struggling to cope with DD on my own (without my happy pills coz of ttc), not an excuse for going off on one I know but please bear with me.

I totally agree that it's everyone's right to think whatever they like, it's whether they express those judgemental thoughts that's the issue. I'm glad GB didn't express them to the mum, coz if she was anything at all like me it would have reduced her to a blubbering crying wreck on the spot. However...
GB did come on here and express the thoughts. Now this is where it becomes catch 22 for me. I love that mumsnet is a forum where everyone's opinions can be aired and discussed, but the fact that GB and many others of you have expressed your thoughts that you feel sorry for FF babies as they haven't had the best start they could have, makes people like me feel even worse about what happened with them. I know you all qualify it with "we're talking about those who choose not to, not those who can't", but that's kinda besides the point a bit for me, as it is still rubbing salt in an open wound that my baby didn't get the best start she could have. Like I say, it's a no-win situation, I wouldn't for a minute take away the right of any one of you to express on here how you feel, but that doesn't stop it from causing me a great deal of hurt when I read it. I guess the solution is for me to ban myself from the bf/ff threads (at least until/unless I'm blessed with baby number 2 - at which time I expect all of you who feel so sad to get your bums down that hospital, put your sadness to good use and make sure it works for me this time!)

Thanks aitch.

I knew I should have never started this thread - it was bound to end up like this.

Am now picturing the face of the midwives who insisted I top up with formula when faced with a bunch of mn'ers up for a bf-fight

Yes. All credit to GB for realising that it's not reasonable to judge someone when you don't know the circumstances.

In fact, I can't really think of circumstances in which I would judge someone for bottlefeeding, except for fairly extreme reasons eg "Well I want to be out partying every night and feeding my baby will get in the way of all the lovely alcohol and drug-fuelled dancing".

I think in that case I'd feel judgemental, but as I said earlier, I would keep my lip buttoned. Not my business.

Thinking about this some more, I think the reasons for feeding a baby one way or another are rarely trivial, so there's a strong argument for believing that people's reasons are good unless proven otherwise.

Need help/advice on the breast to bottle issue. All my other three had no issue's with the transition, it's just number four who is being 'difficult'. Dad can give bottle at 10.30 but she won't take any bottle from mum and it's now getting me down as I want to start dropping a daytime feed. Any advice would be welcome, my baby is 15 weeks old.

it is a no-win situation, bbwbabelisa, you're right. actually i did ban myself from these threads for a while and it did help.
and i do feel for you... probably i feel a bit more distant from THE HORROR of it all now so that's why i am more okay with second-best. it's dead simple, if dd hadn't had formula she would have been very sick, so i don't beat myself up about it any more. used to, though...
i think you can be forgiven a wee rant anyway, if your DH is off. i feel like my head's about to explode after a day alone with dd. hope he's back soon.

foxy, you need to start a new thread I think - this one is for being judgemental on

You need the "add new thread" link at the top.

Good luck!

welliemum... TOTALLY agree about 'presumption of innocence' . but that was a lesson i had to learn the hard way, unfortunately.

needshelp,
do you know how to post your own thread? look up at the top of the page and there's a highlighted thing that says 'to create new conversation' or something like that. might be a good idea to post a new thread so that your question doesn't get lost. welcome to mn, by the way.

Just joined (you don't say eh!!) thanks I'll drop off this one and try again.

I can't say I've really noticed how a person is feeding her baby.

I'm glad I've got a limited radar and a memory like a sieve.

Here's my story - I decided to BF but sat down my dh two weeks before birth due date. This was to tell him that I was really struggling to think how I will get over the hurdle of thinking that my boobs will no longer be sexual!! for him (as he is very much a boobs man).

I didn't know anyone around here with children and I didn't know any of my friends who had bf.

For me, it was a struggle. But I went with it. It was hard when family where visiting and I went to bf and it made me feel uncomfortable. I've never gone topless and at my biggest they were probably a H cup but definately a G cup as that was what my bra said.

22 hours later, still in hospital, with a my dd (first one and only one), weed on me, pooed on me and trying to put clothes on her. I was in a melt down.

Everytime I went to BF the mw came but just in my opinion shoved her on. I had no idea what they were doing and she never latched on for longer than a minute. I felt rubbish and such a crap mum. After 22hours and feeling so tired and keeping all the mums on the ward awake, the nurse asked me to come with her to the nursery. She said it was ok if I wanted to bottle feed if its what I wanted to do. I went with it and I must admit I felt better instantly.

I too, drove home with a screaming dd knowing I didn't have any bottles, formula etc in my house. So I didn't drive straight home with my bundle of joy but to TESCO of all places. Walking in like John Wayne, in so much pain, so tired and just wanting to cry. What formula etc, what bottles, why now and why me?

However, DD had reflux and I always blame myself for this. The first time I went to a toddler group she threw up everywhere on me, and I thought to myself, its because I haven't breast feed her like all these mums.

But now, she is brilliant.

Next time round I have prepared myself. I have joined the NCT to give me the support I will need when the time is next.

I see cross wires have happened through bbwbabelisa and misdee. Both are lovely people. Misdee only have seen you on posts on mumsnet and your life and search is always in my mind. BBWBabelisa - we met through mumsnet and she is now a really good friend of mine. I'm sending you big hugs lis and I'm only down the road if you need me. I know its tough while dh is away. Can't imagine if my dh was away, I would go bananas.

Sending out love to all those mums bf or ff

x

karenj

what a lovely post karen

Ur a big softy KJ. Thanks hunni, I do know where you are and believe me if it got too bad you're the first person I'd call. DH just rung to say the QM is talking about sending them home early, tomorrow night instead of Friday!! Blubbing uncontrollably now but with relief. Really hoping we're still here in the shot when I have next one, coz I know you'll come and scare away the nasty midwives for me!