Another article about how awful breastfeeding is, this time in a feminist publication

[Caligula]

I thought some of you would like to read this.

This misinformation bugged me:

"Times change though, and the formulas on the market are hopefully as close to what comes out of your boob, as they will ever be".

Wonder what the rest of you think

the new breastfeeding taboo

Yes, I'm a fan of Gabrielle Palmer too, and now I come to think of it, what is the difference between woman empowerment and feminism? Sorry I missed your earlier post Yellowrose - this thread has become an enormous rope!

Do you think Sheila Kitzinger is a feminist?

Jinglebelle, thank you for your post, which is interesting. I wonder why your baby is doing better on formula. I certainly don't think individual mothers should be blamed for choosing formula, because as your story shows, every case is different. For many women, their attempts to bf are sabotaged by society, bad advice etc. Not sure why it didn't work out for you, but the woman who criticised you to your face was unbelievably rude. How did she know it wasn't ebm in the bottle, anyway? At least you made your decisions based on the evidence.

YR,yes it has long concerned me why b/feeding is not seen as central to feminist theory.
I am astounded by how many people who call themselves 'feminists' actively shy away from breastfeeding.

It still is not nice at all to have people say really horrible things about you in public or to have people move away as if you are contaminated. To be pilloried as a freak or sexual pervert if you breastfeed a child over six months old, and even to be physically thrown out of places, which all happen to breastfeeders. Women who bottlefeed do not have the last few things happen to them, they just don't. I've breastfed and mixed fed and, while I've been pretty lucky, I have had some old bag say how disgusting I was and move away from me in a museum cafe, and I stopped breastfeeding dd in public before she was one as people are so incredibly nasty and judgemental about it. It is HORRIBLE to think that people regard you as a pervert for breastfeeding your baby. It is really upsetting. And people do not hold back with their comments. I've sat there while people go on and on about how revolting and disgusting and sleazy it is to breastfeed an older baby/toddler.

i don't know where i'd be if it weren't for several of sheila kitzinger's books. i studied a fair bit of her work as part of my degree and then went back to it in pregnancy. she certainly empowered me in the face of dozy midwives and HVs.

my step sister is a feminist writer and lecturer, i don't want to say who she is as i suspect she may be a mumsnetter or at least a lurker. her area of interest is pregnancy and motherhood. i'm wondering why she hasn't done any work around breastfeeding. but then i don't know if she breastfed her children.

Absolutely Aloha.
(Delighted you are back btw.You were sorely missed.)

i'm not saying that either are acceptable, aloha, just that they are not equivalent. it is frankly not comforting for a mum who is beating herself up about not being able to bf (for whatever reason) to be told that it happens to bfers too. surely you can see the difference?
people who make disparaging comments about you bfing are wrong, people who make disparaging comments about formula are right. it's not as good as what's on tap...
neither are polite, but that's not the point.
the point is that time and time again i see bfing mothers trot out the 'happens to us, too' line in an attempt to comfort or reassure, when to my mind, and i don't think i'm alone here, it does neither and a little more sensitivity wouldn't hurt.

Do you know something, the fact that I believe I am doing the right thing does not make me feel any less humiliated by the disgusting stuff around breastfeeding. It is not something that women just shrug off. The attitudes to breastfeeding are a huge reason, IMO, why plenty of women never breastfeed, and why most give up pretty early. It is horribly upsetting to be regarded as a freak, and believing you are doing the right thing for your family does not make it feel good. I find the 'bitty' comments I hear make me feel upset and I feel it forces me to be secretive and even furtive about breastfeeding. I would never DARE do it in public at all now. Plenty of people who formula feed (and I mixed fed my ds) DO believe they are doing the best thing for their baby, themselves and their family, so why can't they just shrug off any criticism? Just because you believe you are doing the right thing doesn't mean that you are impervious to abuse or sneering.

and actually, people talk about their experience not really to comfort or reassure those who choose to formula feed (wouldn't want to be so patronising), but more to say that it's simply not true that it is not true that the only people who get criticised for their feeding method are formula feeders, suffering at the hands of a vicious breastfeeding mafia (invariably described as 'smug') who just who love to torment bottlefeeders and make them feel bad. I was accused by a midwife of 'starving' my newborn in hospital because I wanted to breastfeed. I cried so much I was hysterical. I was distraught.

aloha, i really am not expecting you to shrug off people showing you appalling bad manners and undermining your nourishing your child. really i am not.

but if i am to respect what you are telling me (and i do...) then i'd ask you to do the same thing in return.
people have made nasty comments to me while i was ffing in a cafe, a woman in the mothercare feeding bit quizzed me relentlessly about the reason my bfing 'failed', including informing me that 'every woman can feed her child, it's a myth that they can't'. (please refer to posts passim for the reasons that this is not true in my case, i simply cannot bear to explain it again).

i was made to feel not like a freak for
nourishing my child, but like a liar and a bad mother for not nourishing her with the best food available. clearly my commitment was lacking...

every one of my friends has bfed to at least a year. my mother did the same. aunties, cousins... all of us. the social circles i run in, it's NORMAL to bf, abnormal not to. for some reason people have difficulty believing this, i can't think why. i know that the numbers are not in my favour, but to be honest my experience most reflects the mumsnet demographic, so i would caution those people who habitually say on here 'it happens to us to' as if the two were equivalent to be aware that they may be doing more harm than good.

and i can't even begin to address your use of the word 'choose'...

Aloha excellent posts. I mentioned on another thread how a very close friend, an intelligent, well-read woman, says that I am setting up my DS (2.7 years) for a life long breast obsession and that it is the MOTHER who wishes to continue to bf past year one, NOT the child. So apparantly I am force feeding my son with boob milk.

My own mother thinks I am a freak. I take a lot of social criticism and have stopped bf in public ages ago. I hardly ever see babies being bf in public in London, let alone a walking, talking boy of 2.7, so I have become a prisoner in my own home as far as my bf relationship goes. I am confident in what I do, but perhaps not confident enough to have my son bullied as a freak.

Hence my comments to jingle re. social stigma on bf mums.

Elasticmum - I don't know about Shelia Kitzinger. She has co-authored with Palmer hasn't she so I guess they may both be into girl power ? I read somewhere that Palmer is doing an update of her original work. I look forward to it.

moondog - I totally agree - we need more intelligent analyses of bf, esp. in countries where it has rapidly declined

Just a quick note - I did not mean to say that only those feeding formula get bad remarks, although when bfing, I did feed in cafes, etc and was lucky enough never to get comments. But, my point was, whether bfing or ffing, no-one should comment on what you are doing, either way you are nourishing your baby, who doesn't care where they are fed, as long as they are fed and that is the only important thing. Anyone who comments on either bf or ff is rude and it is none of their business!
And yes, I really did get that comment about "Yucky stuff", it's not made up, but at the time, I wasn't feeling confident and my baby was my priority, not some stuck-up know-it-all. I also only thought of a good come-back later "Yes, my baby might not grow up with all the advantages of being totally breastfed, but at least he won't grow up to be a rude opinionated patronising old trout" (v. mature of me, I must say ).
Aitch thanks for your support, I agree that for someone who has bf and faced negative comments it is upsetting, but they cannot imagine how upsetting it is to face comments when all you want to do is to be able to breastfeed your baby and for one reason or another you have to either supplement or totally bottle feed.
In any case, I am sure that as the enlightened population that we are on Mumsnet, we can debate the value of such an article in a feminist publication and perhaps we should be submitting an article to same publication to present an even view, and we can accept that the author had particularly bad support with regard to bottle-feeding, without the need to berate either choice, but just to accept that there needs to be (as with all areas of parenting) an acceptance that there is no one given way of child-rearing - or we'd end up produce a little clone population!
P.s. Yes, I use Tesco's nappies too - they're great aren't they, although now DS is more settled, I hope to get some Real nappies!

yellowrose - good for you... breast obsession...PAH! All men have a breast obsession - maybe your ds will have a more well-rounded approach!
If I'm really honest, I am a bit freaked by kids going up to Mum and lifting her jumper and asking for boob. But I think that's MY problem - I'd never be rude enough to make a negative comment. It's all down to social mores - I grew up pretty much never seeing anyone bf - it just wasn't fashionable in the 60's and 70's. So it needs people like you to buck the trend and feed in public - otherwise everyone will continue to regard it as odd. It's NOT, of course - 60 years ago it was common to bf till 5 - people used it as a method of contraception. It was really hard for me to put up with my own father's negative comments when I bf my 2 - he wanted me to go into another room at his house. I told him that if he wanted to know his grandchildren he'd better get into the 20th century. He was one of those who used to say things like 'Last one upstairs is a nig nog!' if you can believe that. But of course he would never consider himself racist.
Bloody miracle I've turned out as normal as I have, if you ask me!

ah well yellowrose, never mind, we ffers get it too, you know...

Yellowrose - "no one is actually saying anything negative about bottle feeders here are they ?" Maybe not overtly YR, but there has been a significant lack of empathy and understanding on display in this thread. Personally I find this pretty disturbing.

JingleBelle - thank you so much for your posts, especially the last paragraph of your first one. I just hope that at least some people listen and take note!

forty - thanks for the support. i must say that i do feel i should bf in public, to make it look NORMAL which as you say in many countries it still is, but i am more concerned about my son being recognised by neighbours, etc and bullied later at school. does that make sense ? i am 38 so can deal with bullying, but not sure if DS could cope when he is only 4 or 5 and going to school.

a friend of mine also bf a son the same age as DS has actually decided to home educate as she also fears that her son may be bullied or stigmatsied as she feels very very strongly (even more so than me) about self weaning.

I read Sheila Kitzinger when pregnant and loved that approach to childbirth - and used it too. Am forever grateful to the friend who lent me her book.

Maybe what we need is a natural childbirth equivalent for breastfeeding. ie emphasis on putting to breast immediately, lots of skin to skin contact, no panicking about intake before the milk is in - just lots of cuddles and contact. No rules about how often or when a baby should feed. Any concerns about milk production - go to bed and feed. ie giving people the confidence to trust that breastmilk is all their baby needs.

I bet this would solve most bf problems before they even start.

yellowrose - I can see your point - best not turn your child into a bf martyr! Shame about your friend, though. Maybe she should consider a Steiner school - they have a more 'alternative' approach. One of my friends sends her ds to one.

excellent points wellie - i am not familiar with kitzinger's approach but palmer says that if more women were helped to believe in their own bodies (a faith and confidence women had before formula became a real alternative) it would solve most bf problems

forty - thanks for mentioning steiner - i have actually discussed it with her and she thinks it may be a good idea instead of home ed - i have one near me which is quite expensive but may also consider it once i go back to work and have some extra cash

aye, that's probably a good decision, kami. catch you elsewhere

Hang on, hang on.

Nobody, least of all me, is saying "Oh, if only you'd done a bit of skin-to-skin, all your problems would have been solved".

Do give me credit for a little bit of basic common sense.