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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

tik tok

482 replies

daisymlaisy · 02/01/2007 10:01

I have just wrote such a lengthy reply and just lost it just before I posted it, how annoying so this will probably be a bit blunt, as I haven't got time to go into detail all over again!

I take great offence in you saying that if I have only done a 3-day course at Unicef I am not allowed to call myself a bf counsellor( sorry this is one word, I have always had a mental block on how to spell it, even though I use it lots, and its my job - its really frustrating!) as you said in one reply "I am not a professional but a volunteer" so does this mean you have had no training as such? as in the next reply you say " I am a Nct bf counsellor" So how come you are allowed to call yourself but I am not????

My training is as follows I am a qualified nursery nurse, Nurse, and did the 3-day Unicef breastfeeding course, which is one of the most respected in the country.

I have worked a as a maternity nurse for 9 years , this is where I have had huge amounts of experiance and it is here where I have usually found that feeding more regularly than 2 hourly after the age of 3-4 weeks and if the mother has a well established milk supply can be helped, and many mothers if they are honest will say they are allowing their baby to snack when they want, rather than encouraging proper full feeds. I have a very long testimonial record for mothers who when I went to see them they were feeding very regularly as in every 30 mins -1hour thinking thats what they should be doing. However once I had explained to them to look out for other sign for example crying cause they are tired etc and obviously making sure that there are no problems of tongue tie, poor milk supply, over milk supply etc , we could encourage the baby to demand feed 2/3hourly instead. I for one who bf my own daughter til she was 7 months,if I was feeding her every 30 mins -an hour would of welcomed someone to tell me this needn't be the case. So I still stand by the fact that if the baby is over 3-4 weeks old and the mother has a GOOD milk supply 2 hourly feeds should easily be maintainable, and it is quite often mis-guided information why the mother is allowing the baby to snack every 30mins, or poor attachment, milk supply etc could be a reason for it. however it in most cases can be successfully turned around to frequent feeds every 2-3 hours.

To finish my qualifications- I have worked as a nurse on a neonatal ward for 2 years, here I did see the extremes where babies are being encouraged to feed every 30 mins-1hour to help with the mothers milk supply.

I have been practicing as a bf councellor for 2 years now.

I do feel like i have been interogated by you, and will not be posting on here any more, you have made that impossible for me anyway by tarnishing my name. So keep up the good work helping all those mothers out there and lets hope you never word anything wrong. Of course I wouldn't do this in real life, it was one of the very few times I had been on here, and I was just writing facts,and my opinions wrongly not thinking about emotional ,sleep deprived mothers who may have read it, how it was most certainly not meant. I hope to have learnt by this mistake, and think more when I am writing.

If you feel like you need to justify yourself to me , like I did to you, please do not worry, if you want to call yourself a bf counsellor, reading your threads you sound more than capable to do this. Though please do not doubt other professionals. We are all going to have slightly different views depending on our experiances and qualifications and training, certainly doesn't need one to attack another, this most certainly would put the fear of god, into already confused new mothers, who feel they don't know who to trust.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 22:39

There's a difference though, Maisy. Tiktok has verifiable credentials, we know she's been through the training and keeps herself up to date.

How? Because if anything she posted rang warning bells with anyone else who knows anything about bfeeding (as Daisyml's advice did), they'd email MN Towers and the NCT to confirm she is who she says she is (sorry, Tiktok for she-ing you!).

yellowrose · 03/01/2007 22:40

Sorry, tiktok, I have now realised you are a qualified NCT adviser. Please, I wasn't trying to get at you re. what I said about the poor skills of one particular NCT adviser which I have come across . I was just talking about that one particular person.

Yes, totally agree with paper qualifications meaning diddly.

I really really get p* off when people in my own profession (thankfully my profession is heavily regulated) go on about their qualifications.

It's like "I have six PhD's in Commercial Law" and I think to myself "Well yes, but are you a GOOD commercial lawyer" ?

You know what I mean ?

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 22:42

YR, did you complain to the NCT about the advice you received?

See, that's part of the difference between someone saying they're an NCT bfc and a bfc - with the former, you have the ability to complain if you are unhappy with the advice you received. With the latter, you haven't got that.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 22:45

maisy, people do contact the NCT by phone. We reach many thousands of women every year by phone, but we cannot answer every call on the breastfeeding line - we don;t have the woman power, and the majority of calls don't get through. I do what I do here (and there are other NCT bfcs who do the same on other talkboards) as a way of supplementing this and maybe going some way to reach people who either don't want to phone, who phoned and didn't get through, or who want not just an NCT bfc's response but other people's as well.

We don't offer advice (as I said).

There is no separate training for support on an internet talkboard - but the same principles apply here as in any personal encounter, and actually, I find the same counselling skills are used in another form (so for example when people ask about their breastfeeding, a bfc would not judge them; they would be empathetic; they would be honest; they would not step outside their boundaries and give medical advice or pretend to know something they don't.....all that sort of stuff!).

It is absolutely up to the reader here whether they believe I am who I say I am, and they can take or leave what I say. I don't see a problem with that - is there one?

julienetmum · 03/01/2007 22:45

Can I just say (as a disclaimer) that I resigned as Chair of my local branch 6 months ago so no longer have the insurace paperwork to check but this was my "understanding" of the situation.

julienetmum · 03/01/2007 22:47

Why is email any different from a discussion forum?

Both involve two people typing their questions and responses then hitting the send button.

yellowrose · 03/01/2007 22:50

hunker - no to be honest I didn't. I guess I felt guilty about having to complain to a charitable org., and I still do. The way I see it people like tiktok and others who are volunteers and give up their precious free time to do this work for zero financial gain, are not the sort of people I like to FORMALLY complain about.

Of course I feel very differently about crap advice from my gp and hv. They get paid for what they do and hold themselves out to be "health professionals", so I would rather complain re. the NHS (I also pay tax to the State which goes in the pockets of the NHS, I don't pay the NCT, which makes a huge difference to my attitude to the 2 orgs.)

I feel very very lucky that I have been able to muddle my way through bf and keep at it for such a long time.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 22:50

yellow - do complain about whoever this was. I'd ask you to check they were actually a trained worker ( we don't have 'advisers') and not just someone who was at an NCT event! Might seem obvious, but I had to handle a complaint locally, when an HV said a breastfeeding counsellor had told a client of hers something utterly daft, and it turned out the 'breastfeeding counsellor' was a mum the client had met at an NCT coffee morning....and we cannot control for that

But of course we get things wrong every so often...and as hunker says, there is a structure for putting things right, because of having the organisation there.

julienetmum · 03/01/2007 22:53

If people complain the counsellor will not get shouted at but she WILL be offered support and re-training and I guess if this does not work she will not be able to re-register the following year.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 22:55

Correct, julie.

yellowrose · 03/01/2007 23:01

tiktok - she was the bf adviser (sorry is this the wrong word ?) who ran the 2 hour bf session on my ante-natal NCT course, so I am sure she wasn't just there for a coffee chat !

I called her a few days after the birth of my son (she gave out a helpline no. to call in case we had problems after the birth).

As I say, it was not something I wished to complain about. It is now over 2.5 years ago, and I still have a great deal of admiration for the work the NCT does as well as LLL and all the other charities

I DO have an axe to grind with the NHS though !

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 23:02

Yes, I know, I concede that I lowered the tone of this thread, on occasion....and apologised for it too.....

I wont be shouting "charlatan" any more, honestly

tortoiseshell · 03/01/2007 23:03

VVVQV - You CHARLATAN!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 23:06

Oi! Tortoise - you quack

tortoiseshell · 03/01/2007 23:07

Well that just does it for me. I'm off. Bye.

tortoiseshell · 03/01/2007 23:08
VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 23:12

it really does work!!!

lulumama · 03/01/2007 23:15

now can we have a group hug!

tiktok · 03/01/2007 23:26

tomorrow, lulu, tomorrow!!

tiktok · 03/01/2007 23:26

Is maisy happy now?

Maisy - are you happy now ?

julienetmum · 03/01/2007 23:35

Somewhere amongst these 471 messages there is an explanation of LLL's training. (I was skimming at work earlier). Can someone who knows how lLL work give me another quick precis please as I do have concerns about someone on another board.

Place · 04/01/2007 10:14

Looks like Daisymlaisy has withdrawn from this discussion now - shame I was really interested in recieving her responses to my queries. Keep up the good work lasses

Place · 04/01/2007 10:36

Sorry - I didn't mean that to sound like I now think it might have!! I DIDN't mean 'keep up the good work and we might not get daisy or anyone else back!!!). I DID really mean 'shame that daisy has gone AND that this forum is doing a brill job in general in discussing issues and helping eah other out - so keep up the good work ther.

Sorry If it sounded really bad the first time

PeachyClair · 04/01/2007 12:25

Place don't worry love- if I'm right and you're fairly new, you'll soon relaise that's what happens here a lot: its a skill that I've not always mastered yet to put things across without body language, tone etc in a fast moving debate / discussion / row (delete as applicable LOL ). Infact, its all but impossible!

The trick then is never to feel bad, just explain your point and move on.

lulumama · 04/01/2007 12:29

am waiting for the group hug !