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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

tik tok

482 replies

daisymlaisy · 02/01/2007 10:01

I have just wrote such a lengthy reply and just lost it just before I posted it, how annoying so this will probably be a bit blunt, as I haven't got time to go into detail all over again!

I take great offence in you saying that if I have only done a 3-day course at Unicef I am not allowed to call myself a bf counsellor( sorry this is one word, I have always had a mental block on how to spell it, even though I use it lots, and its my job - its really frustrating!) as you said in one reply "I am not a professional but a volunteer" so does this mean you have had no training as such? as in the next reply you say " I am a Nct bf counsellor" So how come you are allowed to call yourself but I am not????

My training is as follows I am a qualified nursery nurse, Nurse, and did the 3-day Unicef breastfeeding course, which is one of the most respected in the country.

I have worked a as a maternity nurse for 9 years , this is where I have had huge amounts of experiance and it is here where I have usually found that feeding more regularly than 2 hourly after the age of 3-4 weeks and if the mother has a well established milk supply can be helped, and many mothers if they are honest will say they are allowing their baby to snack when they want, rather than encouraging proper full feeds. I have a very long testimonial record for mothers who when I went to see them they were feeding very regularly as in every 30 mins -1hour thinking thats what they should be doing. However once I had explained to them to look out for other sign for example crying cause they are tired etc and obviously making sure that there are no problems of tongue tie, poor milk supply, over milk supply etc , we could encourage the baby to demand feed 2/3hourly instead. I for one who bf my own daughter til she was 7 months,if I was feeding her every 30 mins -an hour would of welcomed someone to tell me this needn't be the case. So I still stand by the fact that if the baby is over 3-4 weeks old and the mother has a GOOD milk supply 2 hourly feeds should easily be maintainable, and it is quite often mis-guided information why the mother is allowing the baby to snack every 30mins, or poor attachment, milk supply etc could be a reason for it. however it in most cases can be successfully turned around to frequent feeds every 2-3 hours.

To finish my qualifications- I have worked as a nurse on a neonatal ward for 2 years, here I did see the extremes where babies are being encouraged to feed every 30 mins-1hour to help with the mothers milk supply.

I have been practicing as a bf councellor for 2 years now.

I do feel like i have been interogated by you, and will not be posting on here any more, you have made that impossible for me anyway by tarnishing my name. So keep up the good work helping all those mothers out there and lets hope you never word anything wrong. Of course I wouldn't do this in real life, it was one of the very few times I had been on here, and I was just writing facts,and my opinions wrongly not thinking about emotional ,sleep deprived mothers who may have read it, how it was most certainly not meant. I hope to have learnt by this mistake, and think more when I am writing.

If you feel like you need to justify yourself to me , like I did to you, please do not worry, if you want to call yourself a bf counsellor, reading your threads you sound more than capable to do this. Though please do not doubt other professionals. We are all going to have slightly different views depending on our experiances and qualifications and training, certainly doesn't need one to attack another, this most certainly would put the fear of god, into already confused new mothers, who feel they don't know who to trust.

OP posts:
daisymlaisy · 03/01/2007 16:15

oh tik tok get off your pedestal, and accept it I am a bfc. I said it was a 3 day course as thats what i did, to be honest with you I didn't even realise it was supposed to be 5 days, until i have just hunted out my certificate to look at the course title and looked it up online. My manager at the time said to me I wouldn't have to complete it all as I had covered alot of it in my neonatal training.

So you got your facts wrong tik tok, you did not do your full research on unicef, and I can now prove I am a bfc.

thanks

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 16:16

Daisy, in the past, trolls have used talkboards such as this in shocking ways - to elicit sympathy or just to be sick f*cks (by posting about fantasy miscarriages, problematic pregnancies, etc), to gain a feeling of power (by pretending they're something they're not - be that barrister, doctor, etc) - all sorts of things. That is one reason why you are being questionned.

You are as believable as the words on the screen. If you were a credible breastfeeding counsellor, your words would demonstrate that - you wouldn't need to have the piece of paper or the proof. I don't need to see Tiktok's proof - I know she is because she is "counsellorish" in her posts and gives fantastic advice.

The fact that various MNers have pulled you up on your posts should surely give you the smallest, sneakingest feeling that perhaps you aren't quite the hotshot bfc you think you are. I don't mean to dampen your enthusiasm for supporting breastfeeding, but I do wonder about your motives.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:16

The main reason folk stumble across Mumsnet, looking for advice is because they have been persistently given such shit advice, if any, from the "professionals", and the problem has not been solved.

My own GP queried why i was "still b/feeding" my 18 month old, because "you dont have to after one year".

tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:17

Except you didn't say 'oops'.

You just expect us to believe that what you said then was the title of your course is different from what you say it is now.

Can you blame us for being a bit confused ?

knittingtinsel · 03/01/2007 16:18

Having followed the thread in some detail it seems that one party is irritated that another can and does call themselves a "breastfeeding counsellor".

If this is the bone of contention then it will never be solved on a website like this.

The only way to achieve that goal is to lobby the relevent authorities to restrict the use of the title.

P.S. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT PARTICULAR TASK - I work in a profession where anyone can use the title and they do, some doing a perfectly adequate job but knowing when to seek more specialist advice, others being complete cowboys leaving others to pick up the pieces later in respect of their lack of all-round knowledge in the field.

I can't see that daisymlaisy's advice differs from that offered by many NHS midwives (in fact it seems infinitely better than that which I experienced) and midwives are surely government sanctioned and insured for the advice/support which they give aren't they

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:19

Can I just say......

CHARLATAN

daisymlaisy · 03/01/2007 16:19

thats why I have been so confused, as I knew I only did 3 days so when i looked at unicef and saw the 3 day course, i presumed thats what i did, but confusion lay when I was told I would be a qualified bfc, anyway my poor dh has been in the loft and routed out my certificate, which did indeed put me right, as it was the bfc training course I did. So the end.

OP posts:
tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:20

Pedestal? I am not on a pedestal! I just have a very puzzled frown on my face wondering how a post quoting the 'Course in breastfeeding management' you did becomes something different, like a rabbit out of a hat.

Please explain

DizzyBint · 03/01/2007 16:22

OH MY GOOD GOD!! how can you not know what training you have had?! when people ask what your qualifications are how can you not know?! WHY OH WHY, when i mentioned the 2 different unicef courses did it not strike you that you did the other course?!

tortoiseshell · 03/01/2007 16:24

daisy, you really remind of another poster who used to post on here called lavendar - honestly, there is a way of posting on MN that doesn't cause all this upset - but it does take a while to get into the style of it.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:26

X posted - you were confused and you posted details of a course you did not do.

So the confusion is not really our fault, is it? Go on....admit it! It's not great not to know the course you did, I have to say, and I don't think you are a breastfeeding counsellor the way it is understood here, but I don't think you are a charlatan, and I do think you know a lot about bf, and you want to help. I don't agree with online bullying or name calling and I would distance myself from it....it's not kind.

I think I will stop posting on this thread, as it is getting more than a debate and it's getting personal.

I wish you all the best, daisymlaisy, and I hope you continue to help mothers and to support them.

lulumama · 03/01/2007 16:27

counsellor or not..the aggression in your last few posts belies any counsellor training or natural aptitudw

i stuck up for you yesterday..

but you have made a rod for your own back here...i am stunned you are still so hung upon the title.....

you are not seeing the wood from the trees

you gave advice

you were challenged as it was incorrect

rather than accepting it, you have said i am a counsellor,i know it is right , so i don;t need to change my advice

and got so hung up on what course you did that you have missed the point entirely

you have moved the goal-posts re the course several times...and are being absolutely intransigent about the point of this thread

my mother is a trained counsellor......if she put her points across like this on a talk board, i;d worry seriously about her aptitude for her job.

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 16:29

Daisy, can you not see the difference between a course in breastfeeding counselling and a course to be a breastfeeding counsellor? Like my desktop publishing course?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:30

No, you are quite right tiktok.

I apologise. I am just so frustrated.

It reminds me of the awful experiences I had with medical professionals through both birth experiences, through them simply not listening to what I was saying, because "they knew best".

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:32

I really should make better use of my speech marks.

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 16:32

I do wonder how the Unicef course is taught though, specifically with regard to what is said about foremilk and hindmilk, because I know the midwife I saw hadn't grasped it, and nor has Daisy.

LittleSarah · 03/01/2007 16:37

Guys, what is going on here?

Shouldn't you be working on your written apology?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:53

LS

I apologised for shouting "Charlatan" in frustration.

That's as much as I'll apologise for. I'm not one for personal attacks, usually....

kamikayzed · 03/01/2007 16:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jalexandra · 03/01/2007 17:06

Ladies I think everyone has made their points, and this is going around in circles. Maybe it is time to agree to differ before it turns nasty

DizzyBint · 03/01/2007 17:16

i am utterly aghast i really am

PeachyClair · 03/01/2007 17:24

Place- at no pint have I said you could, and I never have. I do sometimes use the designation of Counsellor in other contexts- that's because of the Counselling / Mentoring training I have received in other, some sontinuing contexts, over the past ten years.

fireflighty · 03/01/2007 17:28

I'm intrigued - Daisymlaisy, would you still argue that the people who did the 3-day course you thought you did are breastfeeding counsellors? Or can only the people who did the (3)5-day course you've now remembered you actually did call themselves that? If both can call themselves that, then it doesn't make any difference what you did, does it? And if only the people doing the (3)5-day course can call themselves BFCs, then you'd agree with everyone else's assessment earlier in the thread that the 3-day course you claimed made you a BFC actually didn't, wouldn't you? In which case it's hardly their fault that they didn't just say "oh yes OK you're a BFC", is it?!

Fwiw I'm someone else who was nearly stopped from BF by bad advice from someone I thought was giving me qualified advice early on, and I also feel very strongly about honesty about BF qualifications, and that everyone giving any kind of BF info or advice should know when to say "I don't know", and never assume they know 'enough'. I think the more people there are out there who've done any kind of BF training, the better, but we all have to know our limitations and be open to being questioned.

PeachyClair · 03/01/2007 17:28

Daisy - 'Unicef course, covers everything you need to know and more, like peachyclair kindly pointed out and backed me up on how indepth it is. '

I never said that, NOBODY knows everything about BF because each experience is so coloured by the individuals life experiences and attitudes. UNICEF covers the basics and some more yes- but certainly not enough to know everything or be a Counsellor

PeachyClair · 03/01/2007 17:33

(and Place I have cat'd you, as I am concerned that you think I might be calling myself a Copunsellor; I am not, I promise, I think you just misread my post)

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