Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

tik tok

482 replies

daisymlaisy · 02/01/2007 10:01

I have just wrote such a lengthy reply and just lost it just before I posted it, how annoying so this will probably be a bit blunt, as I haven't got time to go into detail all over again!

I take great offence in you saying that if I have only done a 3-day course at Unicef I am not allowed to call myself a bf counsellor( sorry this is one word, I have always had a mental block on how to spell it, even though I use it lots, and its my job - its really frustrating!) as you said in one reply "I am not a professional but a volunteer" so does this mean you have had no training as such? as in the next reply you say " I am a Nct bf counsellor" So how come you are allowed to call yourself but I am not????

My training is as follows I am a qualified nursery nurse, Nurse, and did the 3-day Unicef breastfeeding course, which is one of the most respected in the country.

I have worked a as a maternity nurse for 9 years , this is where I have had huge amounts of experiance and it is here where I have usually found that feeding more regularly than 2 hourly after the age of 3-4 weeks and if the mother has a well established milk supply can be helped, and many mothers if they are honest will say they are allowing their baby to snack when they want, rather than encouraging proper full feeds. I have a very long testimonial record for mothers who when I went to see them they were feeding very regularly as in every 30 mins -1hour thinking thats what they should be doing. However once I had explained to them to look out for other sign for example crying cause they are tired etc and obviously making sure that there are no problems of tongue tie, poor milk supply, over milk supply etc , we could encourage the baby to demand feed 2/3hourly instead. I for one who bf my own daughter til she was 7 months,if I was feeding her every 30 mins -an hour would of welcomed someone to tell me this needn't be the case. So I still stand by the fact that if the baby is over 3-4 weeks old and the mother has a GOOD milk supply 2 hourly feeds should easily be maintainable, and it is quite often mis-guided information why the mother is allowing the baby to snack every 30mins, or poor attachment, milk supply etc could be a reason for it. however it in most cases can be successfully turned around to frequent feeds every 2-3 hours.

To finish my qualifications- I have worked as a nurse on a neonatal ward for 2 years, here I did see the extremes where babies are being encouraged to feed every 30 mins-1hour to help with the mothers milk supply.

I have been practicing as a bf councellor for 2 years now.

I do feel like i have been interogated by you, and will not be posting on here any more, you have made that impossible for me anyway by tarnishing my name. So keep up the good work helping all those mothers out there and lets hope you never word anything wrong. Of course I wouldn't do this in real life, it was one of the very few times I had been on here, and I was just writing facts,and my opinions wrongly not thinking about emotional ,sleep deprived mothers who may have read it, how it was most certainly not meant. I hope to have learnt by this mistake, and think more when I am writing.

If you feel like you need to justify yourself to me , like I did to you, please do not worry, if you want to call yourself a bf counsellor, reading your threads you sound more than capable to do this. Though please do not doubt other professionals. We are all going to have slightly different views depending on our experiances and qualifications and training, certainly doesn't need one to attack another, this most certainly would put the fear of god, into already confused new mothers, who feel they don't know who to trust.

OP posts:
VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 15:49

Have to say, you remind me of one of the consultant, who in his professional capacity, decided to perform an episiotomy, without mentioning he was going to do it first before delivering by ventouse, because - that is what you do when you deliver a baby by ventouse.

This was after he rowed with the mw in front of me at 1am in the morning because he didnt feel I needed help after 3 hours of unsuccessful pushing with diminishing contractions - because the book says......

NotQuiteCockney · 03/01/2007 15:50

Those are very important skills, useful in all areas of life, and absolutely necessary in breastfeeding counselling, imo. If you're dealing with someone who is upset about problems feeding her baby, and holding on to a bunch of inaccurate advice (from her mum or whoever), you can't exactly come down on her like a ton of bricks about how wrong she is, can you. (God knows I'd never be a BFC)

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 15:50

Daisymlaisy, words fail me, truly. And not for the reasons you want them to, either.

NotQuiteCockney · 03/01/2007 15:52

Good god, daisymlaisy, if you want to be even vaguely convincing, it might be wise to pick one story and stick with it.

daisymlaisy · 03/01/2007 15:54

gosh I'm sorry if I've slipped up somewhere and said I know everything about bf, as I most certainly do not- what I would of meant I was taught the facts the same as Abm etc.

Obviously sometimes I will be wrong, everybody gets it wrong sometimes, but who on here is to say what I have said is wrong-
You do your best with the knowledge you are given. The reason contradictory information is given is exactly because of the above, you can only relay what you have been told, and thats what you believe to be true, who knows who is correct, professionals will argue their views till their blue in the face, if they are relaying what they were first told.

The main thing is that I am entitled and qualified to be a bfc, if you check out the link above

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 15:55

This is an interesting link

Now, I've done a course in desktop publishing - it could have been called "Desktop publishing - a training course".

I am not, however, a desktop publisher.

NotQuiteCockney · 03/01/2007 15:58

Um. Ok.

You said you did the three-day course.

Then you said you did the five day course, but they let you skip two days of it because of your medical background. Never mind that the five-day course, according to the link you posted, is intended for midwives, nurses, and doctors, so quite how you were specially exempted is a mystery to me.

This is reminding me rather a lot of arguing with my five-year-old.

maryhadaharpsichordyeahlord · 03/01/2007 15:58

gracious me.
daisymlaisy, "qualified" or not, your attitudes frankly astonish me.
professionalism cannot be judged by the courses one has attended. one's behaviour and one's attitudes are the key. and I would rather stick pins in my eyes than have you in one of my antenatal classes advising any of my women after the attitudes and comments here.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 15:58

As far as this website is concerned. Posting accurate and up to date information is what qualifies you here, not a link to a course you say you have done, and protests about your experience. What you say here counts, because, quite frankly thats all anyone can see.

If you simply cannot get your head around this simple premise daisym, I fear I may just shout "Charlatan" every time I see you post your "advice and experience" on here because I have already bumped my head today and dont want to do myself any damage.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:00

Harpsi!!!!! Where have you been all my life?

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 16:00

In case anyone's interested, I did my desktop publishing course here:

Happy Computers, winner of the Unisys Service Excellence Award 2003, is the leading provider of end user software training in the UK.

So I think maybe I will call myself a desktop publisher.

lulumama · 03/01/2007 16:00

daisy..why have you chosen this path? are you passionate about breastfeeding, are you desperate to help women...? just i know why i want to be a doula, the title is irrelevant , the certificate is irrelevant..it is the driving force behind it..you can give fantastic support without a title...

i don;t know enough about the various courses to judge whether you can be called a counsellor or not....

and you can only 'judge' on here, on what is posted and the information you give....if it comes across as incorrect or is incorrect, you can say you are trained, and you are a counsellor, but it doens;t make inherently wrong information correct ...IFYSWIM

blueshoes · 03/01/2007 16:03

wow, this thread has been my crash course on the different breastfeeding titles that are out there.

I am most impressed by the meticulous training described by tiktok, place and illank for NCT, ABM, particularly regarding supervision and mentoring. Certainly, when I was in a panic about my supply and called every health professional known to me for advice, the person I was looking for, even in my uninformed state, was "breastfeeding counsellor" - that was the top of the bf-ing qualification tree for me. I would not know the ins-and-outs of their training, but knowing now about the breadth and depth of the training by NCT/ABM, I would be very happy to call that person a trained professional in that field.

Now, I imagine a 3-day course by UNICEF to be a very good foundation to build on. But I would be slightly sceptical of someone who styled themselves as a breastfeeding counsellor or expert-of-sorts after what sounds like a 3-day theoretical course. I have read the NCT booklets and various babycare books myself and had experience of bf-ing - does that make me a counsellor?

daisy, you mentioned you had experience training as a maternity nurse, neonatal nurse. that's very worthwhile experience and one which put you in contact with nursing mothers. But my dd spent 2 weeks in NICU/SCBU in St Thomas', which has one of the best neonatal facilities in UK. Dedicated and well-meaning though the nurses were, they in all due respect did not know enough about bf-ing to get my dd to latch on.

I was eventually referred to a bf-ing counsellor. And she was able to stand up to the paediatricians in charge of my dd's care and change what they were doing (tube-feeding) which was hindering my establlishing bf-ing. Now that is a true professional with standing and respect amongst her peers.

daisy, I don't know enough about you to say whether you are of the same standing and training. I certainly respect your coming back here to explain your position. As you seem to apply yourself with passion to your role, can you not do the ABM course, you seem to be doing the clinical side anyway, and give real ballast to your title.

NotQuiteCockney · 03/01/2007 16:04

Oooh, harpsi, can you come teach for me? Please? Demand is huge! And the rate is very good ...

daisymlaisy · 03/01/2007 16:05

your awful like a bunch of bullies, hope you can sleep on a night,knowing you have listened to anything I have said, your all to quick to judge. I will be getting in contact with mumsnet, with proof of my qualifications, including the certificate I hold for the course below, and will expect a written apology.
I have been treated really unfairly and in a very attacking way.

Thanks to the people who have supported me and believe me, you really have helped me keep from getting really upset by all of this.

I can't believe tik tok has managed to instigate such an interrogation on me, I know she is well respected, but I'm human just like all of you and have feelings to.

This has not just been about difference of breastfeeding information, its about having an attack on me.

OP posts:
tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:07

We did look up the information - I think Dizzy did, and I certainly did - and the courses currently run by Unicef in the UK are the 3-day Lactation Management course and the 2 day Helping mothers to breastfeed. I asked you on Monday how you had been trained and you said the course was 3 days - oin that basis, it had to be the 3-day lactation management course, and if it wasn't, why on earth did you not say? Why is it only now you say it was not this one? What are you playing at?

I honestly don't know where you are at with this at all....what is the point of not saying what you are saying until now? To make a point? And you think this is open, honest and frank behaviour designed to instil confidence in people and to share knowledge?

For the record, 3 days of this 5 day course is still not a breastfeeding counsellor the way it is understood in the UK, so I would still ask you not to use the term.....

You don't really think you know everything there is to know and more, do you?

That was just you being a bit silly, wasn't it?

lulumama · 03/01/2007 16:07

daisy... i have been asked for my 'credentials'.. it is not you being singled out.....that is the point i was trying to make and asking about your reasons for becoming a b.f support/counsellor....not to pick on you, but to learn about you
same as other people asked about me, and will ask about other new posters.

daisymlaisy · 03/01/2007 16:08

final word I am a bfc, check out the link below in earlier post.

OP posts:
DizzyBint · 03/01/2007 16:09

diasymlaisy- you said you did the unicef 'lactation management' course, not unicef's 'breastfeeding counsellor' course.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:09

Awwww....daisymlaisy, I have not instigated anything, and my most recent post is the first time I have even been a bit overtly exasperated with you! When I expressed sympathy for your position, I was told I was being patronising, so I am not sure how to respond now!!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 03/01/2007 16:10

Of course, yes, its all about you.

And indeed, it is so shocking that MN Towers has deleted this thread....oh no, hang on, im still posting on it

This is SO not about you. Quite frankly your posts continue to astonish me.

You have had explained to you, time and time again that some of the things you have said are not "quite right/correct/whatever", and instead of going to check this information, you have persisted in droning on about your "qualifications". You have consistently made this about you, instead of it being about presenting the correct/most accurate/up to date information to nursing mothers-in-need, simply through your own arrogance.

If you werent so arrogant, this wouldnt be all about you would it?

tortoiseshell · 03/01/2007 16:10

daisy, I really don't think you've been 'attacked' and I think tiktok has been amazingly reasonable actually - it's just that in the minefield of b/feeding, where crap advice is given by all sorts of health professionals, and where mothers don't expect to have to fight the doctors/nurses/midwives to get decent info/advice, it's really important if someone is claiming to be a b'feeding counsellor that they are giving GOOD and CORRECT advice. Tiktok in my eyes has been trying to ascertain what training you have. If you are qualified as a b/f counsellor, then it's surprising if you give wrong advice.

As someone mentioned earlier, there was a poster on here claiming to be a QC, who gave lots of legal advice, which MNers took action on, she/he turned out to be a total fake. I'm not suggesting you are a total fake, but please don't see this as a witch hunt, it's just important to clarify what people are saying, and from where their advice comes.

hunkermunker · 03/01/2007 16:10

Daisy, you can't belliger your way onto a board and then cry foul when people mind that you're posting incorrect information and getting arsey about being pulled up on it.

I will sleep as well as DS2 lets me sleep at night, I'm afraid.

(And I know belliger's not a word, but I like it)

CorrieDale · 03/01/2007 16:12

Daisy, I've read the whole thread & I don't think I remember anybody questioning the existence of your qualification. What Tiktok and other BFCs are saying is that you shouldn't call yourself a BFC because that is a title that have certain connotations of experience, training and ongoing supervision. The BFCs on this thread who have been trained by ABM, BfN and NCT are all saying the same things and clearly recognise each other's 'language' and qualifications.

You disagree that you shouldn't call yourself a BFC and aren't budging from that. That's up to you, but can you not see the BFCs' point? FWIW, I don't think that sending MNHQ your Unicef certificate is going to change the BFCs' minds about whether or not that particular qualification entitles you to use the title.

tiktok · 03/01/2007 16:14

daisy - this is the course you said you did:

"Course in breastfeeding management-
Midwives, health visitors, neonatal nurses and others who have direct responsibility for overall care delivery to breastfeeding mothers and /or babies need a course which equips them with not only basic knowledge and skills in breastfeeding but an understanding of the conditions which may impact on a mother of baby's ability to breastfeed and how these should be prevented or managed. The course in Breastfeeding Management can provide this extra depth of knowledge. "

That is a direct quote from your post.

Now you say, oops, it wasn't that course, it was another one.

I give up on you, I really do. I honestly don't know what to believe, and that's not good. That's not to attack you, or to bully you, by the way, just to state my feelings.

Swipe left for the next trending thread