DESPERATE and CONCERNED

[sistergrim]

Please help me. My 2 day old son is really struggling to breast feed and doesn't seem to be latchng on or making much effort atall to suck. What do I do? Midwife has said to give some formula in the emantime but am quite against it though obviously don't want to harm my baby by him going without - really don't think he has had hardly anything at all since born and `i mean virtually nothing. My breats are now rock solid so assume the milk is coming in. Midwife said thought nipples did not stick out enough. Am going to a clinic tomorrow but what should we do, how long can i leave baby this way?

First of all, congratulations on your baby

No-one warns you that breastfeeding doesn't come naturally to many of us and it is awful when you feel you can't provide for your baby . We had lots of problems, especially during that first week. As sittingbull said, a bit of formula every now and then is fine and, if your baby isn't getting any breast milk, he probably needs it. Can you pump? I hated doing it, but I spent most of that first week pumping and letting ds lap the milk from a cup (he wouldn't take a bottle). We eventually saw a lactation consultant who showed me how to use a nipple shield and that solved most of our problems. Ds bf from then on but it did take 5 months to wean him off the nipple shield - they can apparently affect milk supply, so don't use one without advice. See what the clinic say tomorrow. I know there are some MNers who will be able to help you more than I can and I'm sure they'll be along in the morning... let us know how you get on.

thank you so, so much for getting in touch so quickly - am really touched people want to help. Am just so upset - just want to be able to give him food. my breasts are now so solid and very sore. Am off now to get a pump and try that.
Your words have really helped calm me down and am going to try and think positive and try not to feel a failure.
Thank you and will stay in touch

Get yourself a savoy cabbage to help calm the breasts (put leaves in your bra)... try hot flanels BEFORE expressing, massage and you can CUP feed your baby.
Where in the country are you ?

If your milk is coming in then that's great, you have a supply of food there for him.
Do you have a syringe? Just a bog-standard one from the chemists? You can express and syringe feed him your milk. Or use a teaspoon.
If you don't want to give formula, then try that first. Try hand expressing if the pump isn't getting much out - they simply don't "work" for some women.
Keep trying to latch him on.
I remember these days very well, it's horrendous thinking you aren't feeding your baby. It never occurred to me that it would go "wrong" but it's maybe more common than not. Mumsnet is brilliant for support btw.

Congratulations on being a mum!
You must try and contact a b/f counsellor. Midwives can be very helpful, but do not always have the knowledge or experience you are needing. Have you tried phoning the b/f helplines?

Don't give in. Everyone finds it difficult at times, and it will become so much easier.

What a shame your midwife is being so unsupportive.....you have the milk, your baby can have it, even if he is not coming reliably to the breasts direct. Hope you get help at the clinic.

Sistergrin,

Congratulations on your new little boy

Firstly, i would like to say you are DEFINATELY NOT A FAILURE, these times are really difficult as your hormone levels are everywhere and you and your baby have a task at hand - breastfeeding is an art that both of you have to learn. YOU WILL SUCCEED it will just take time.

Many of the other mums have giving great advice regarding expressing before trying to latch him on - as it would be very difficult to latch him on, and for him to latch on, when your breasts are so firm. You must express enough for your breasts to be comfortable and softer for latching.

Also, if he is very sleepy it is probably best to syringe feed him (using a bog standard medicine syringe from chemist - previously suggested by Pruhoohooohoooooni)-with what you have expressed. This will increase his sugar levels and make him more awake.

Regarding what the Midwife said about the flat nipples. I would recommend NOT using nipple shields - although this may help with latching, it will not solve the problem and may also lead you to future problems - reduced milk supply, dependency to it. I would suggest using Nipple Formers, these are worn between feeds and encourage the nipple to come out for easier latching. Or you could use your pump just before latching to pull your nipples out ;)

Also, remember that if your baby is not latching you will need to express a minimum of 8 times a day to stimulate your breasts enough for producing milk. All the milk expressed can be stored and used in future feeds.

Please contact your Midwife or Breastfeeding Councellor for info and help. They will be great encouragement for you.

Or you could call a Breastfeeding Helpline:

BFN: 0870 900 8787
LLL: 0845 120 2918
NCT: 0870 444 8708

Hang in there, you are doing a fantastic job. Keep us all updated.

Take Care x

Hi, if you have your milk coming in, I would express (Ameda Egnell is a good pump which you can hire through NCT), make sure you sterilise everything well, including syringes if you use these initially. I found LLL helpline very good. Good luck, let us know how you get on ... Oh, I bottlefed initially - increasingly using more expressed milk - but we did manage to switch to full breastfeeding after several weeks, so take your time.

Don't give him any formula. Squeeze colostrum out and let it go on to his lips. My milk often didn't come in for 4 - 5 days which is unusual but people just differ. You need to express what is in your breasts. Regularly even if you're just squirting it over his face and across his little mouth.
Put him to your breast every couple of hours. if you don't express or feed your milk will go so you need to do one or other other. My sister in law hired a breastfeeding expert with her second child and breastfed well for a year having failed with the first. You may need someone to help you learn to latch him on. Express milk first so your breasts are not so very very full he can't get his mouth around the right bit.

If you want to breastfeed don't give him formula at day 2. Are his lips dry? If so just keep letting him be by your breasts smell the milk / colostrum, and drip it on to him so he's getting something and may be gets more of an idea of what to do.

Babies aren't born hungry. It's a sensation that they learn. You aren't depriving of anything at 2 days. Midwives, nurses, and lactation consultants screwed my breastfeeding up because ds didn't want to nurse, just sleep. They made me so worried that he was going to die of starvation that I supplemented with formula. In the end bfing didn't work out. Looking back listening to them was a mistake.

grrr at someone saying that ff isn;t doing any harm..I know ff is accepted at norm, but it doesn't mean one should star with the facts and giving formula cqan have implications!
Anyway, any m/w just recommending to give a few ff is either just misinformed, or can't really be bothered or is inable to give bf support or just don't know muh abput fbf but adviing to give ff is thje easy option, even if it isn't in yors or your childs favour!

Hi Sistergin

Just wanted say that I had very similar problems to you at the start. It took 4 days for DS to actually manage to latch on properly and that shook my confidence allot. He also had 'virtually nothing' and on day two had two formula feeds via a cup mixed with my colestrum. We then started a 3/5/4 hour feeding regime of offering espressed breast milk (40mils +) after a a 15 minute 'try' on the breast, No more no less so we didn't give him negative breast associations. On day 4 he finally latched on and fed properly and despite broken confidence, enormous engorged breasts and an over-abundant milke suppy, we stuggled through the early weeks and got to a point when it was comfortale, easy, anx-free and wonderful. Had sturggled at the breast, especially with my forceful letdowns but this sorted itself on it own over time, as did all the other problems.

I also had the 'flat nipple' problem and used to keep a pump handy to express the smallest amount possible off at the start of the feed and that helped.

Everything got easier and easier with time, the key is to trust the Breastfeeding process and try not to worry too much. Your milk supply will calm down quite dranstically in the next few weeks and every day after then your breasts will become less swollen and 'leaky' as they become used to producing milk. It doesn't take long before feeding her will become second nature, even though that might seem impossible now.

The issue with formula effected breastfeeding is that it can interphere quite badly by breaking the supply-demand cycle and reducing milk supply too much at the same time as artifically stretching babies tummies so they aren't as satisified by breastfeeds. But, the odd bit of formula, especially when given buy a cup shouldn't be a problem. But, as a failsafe, why not offer EBM via a cup.

I'll just finish by saying, i've been there and so many other mums have and are right now. You are not alone. Breastfeeding can be hellish at the start, especially when you are tired and feel like there is so much to work. The key is to just stick with it and persevere. Don't comare breastmilk with formula in terms of feeding times/amounts. Get help if you need it and just go with the flow and accept that its normal to be difficult at the start. There is plenty of help out there if you need it. I had about two or three visits from breastfeeding councillers and health visitors on the early weeks. Just stick with it and you will get there. I sobbed that I hated breastfeeding at week 1 and couldn't do it. 18 months later I am still feeding my DS who fed exclusively on breastmilk until 6 months!

Good luck and you can do it! x x x

Also they can survive the first few days without any food. It's how they're made. They can be born and abandoned and live so really it's not a problem but keep at it. Is he too sleepy and jaundiced so not interested in feeding?

I had a problem to feed DS when my milk came in cos breasts were so full it was like trying to suck a drum into his mouth, poor thing. I didn't know what to do and he was screaming with hunger and frustration (2am and I'd left hospital before the milk came in, so no experience). In the end I used nipple protectors, because you sort of roll them over the nipple and create a bit of a vacuum, so that the nipple is pulled up into the nipple protector. It was enough for him to be able to get his lips around the edge of the nipple without too much effort. Now, having breast fed him and DD for (ever it seems ) 21 months, I would just express some milk off to soften the nipple up, but I didn't know how to really do this at the time and I found the nipple protectors handy things to have around for the first few weeks, fo this and for when nipples got sore.
With DD I did use a small amount of formula once because she got hungry before my milk came in and had been sucking for 6 hours straight and I was in pain & she was hungry. I only did it the once though to tide her over till the milk came in.

Sittingbull, am not bf anymore, bf'ed all my 3 children, but have had my problems along the road, but my pure pigheadedness has stopped me giving up when I got down about Breastfeeding problems!

BTW, why did you ask?

Still having real troubles. is not taking to breast at all. We are giving 3 hourly feeds of 20-30mls of EBM via a syringe - is ths enough? Also feeling absolutely awful today, physically and breast milk seems to be slowing - what can i do?

Struggling so much - so much to think about - worrying about getting on breast, are we steralising properly, cleaning him enough, is he too sleepy, is he unwell???? Sleeps so much and doesn't wake to feed or demmand food.

What do I do if milk stops?

Please try to calm down. He's only three days old and it's really, really normal for women to have no milk for up to five days (that's how long mine took to come in once) and babies do perfectly well. Also babies are born with fat stores on board to see them through the early days so your baby is actually getting quite a lot. They really need very little. What are you doing to help him latch on? Just being with him with him in just a nappy by your naked body in a cosy way is great. Or take a bath together.
Try, try, try to relax. Sterilising is overrated - a good hot wash is really just as good so don't worry about that. Newborn babies don't need cleaning at all (actually MUCH better for them if they aren't washed much and certainly they don't need more than plain warm water and cotton wool. You milk won't just 'stop' especially as you are expressing (good for you!). Have you called your ante-natal ward to ask if there is a breastfeeding clinic you can go to on Monday? You could do that right now.
Now, have a cup of tea and a slice of cake and a magazine/light reading/old movie or something and go back to bed with your baby all bare and cuddly and gorgeous.
Good luck!

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Follow sorrell's advice. My milk, the white stuff that looks like milk, wasn't there for up to 5 days with a few of the babies. When it did "come in" my breasts got very full and it would spurt out until the baby and I got supply and demand right.
I think what you most need is someone to come round there and teach you how to get him to latch on in the right position, someone who has breastfed before.

There should be nothing to sterlise at all. You don't need syringes. Just hold him up against your breast every few hours. Does he root around, try to latch on, move his mouth trying to or is he just fast asleep most of the time.

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