DESPERATE and CONCERNED

[sistergrim]

Please help me. My 2 day old son is really struggling to breast feed and doesn't seem to be latchng on or making much effort atall to suck. What do I do? Midwife has said to give some formula in the emantime but am quite against it though obviously don't want to harm my baby by him going without - really don't think he has had hardly anything at all since born and `i mean virtually nothing. My breats are now rock solid so assume the milk is coming in. Midwife said thought nipples did not stick out enough. Am going to a clinic tomorrow but what should we do, how long can i leave baby this way?

Please call one of the b/f helplines or ask your HV for a referal to a b/f counsellor. Really, really helped me with those nightmare early days. You are not alone, b/f really can be a struggle in the early days. Do get him checked for jaundice. And if he's sleepy when you are trying to feed, tickle his feet, blow gently on his face, take his clothes off, anything to try and wake him up so he feeds!

Wriggler only fed once every 10-12 hours when she was newborn (first 3/4/5 days probably). I didn't worry, just was there letting her have a go when ever she woke up (which was rarely).
Keep going. The expressing a little before trying to latch on is reaaly sensible advice - wish I had known to do that!

When my ds was a newborn we had to put ice on his feet to wake him up because we were so afraid he wasn't goint to. He always fell right back to sleep. It wasn't until a nurse told us, "No one wakes you up to eat, why would wake him up to eat". When we left the hospital he still hadn't latched on and we were lucky if he got 1/2 oz of formula every 6 hours. He wasn't jaundiced, just sleepy. The whole first week he just slept on my chest, woke up every six hours when I would try to feed him. Don't worry for now. Eventually he will set the pace. If he doesn't you may to give a bottle of ebm or formula just so it is easy for you to keep track of what he is getting.

Have you taken him for a weight check? Since my ds didn't want to eat we took him for a check every two days until he was two weeks old. That will be your way of knowing if he's o.k. or not. If he's not gaining ask the pediatrician what your options are.

Go to bed, get skin to skin and cuddle. Catch up on some sleep while you can. Phone the midwife and ask her to visit.
Can you book yourself back into hospital until you have the hang of the feeding? The first 3 days I couldn't get wriggler to latch on at all without help. Makes you feel so useless though doesn't it.

My goodness sistergrim - 20-30ml EBM is absolutely loads. He might be too full now to waken for a feed!

What weight was he at birth. Was he born in hospital? If so, did he feed at all before you got home? Did you have pain relief in labour?

Once of the best things you can do to encourage him to feed it to have him lie next to your skin naked. Just put a nappy on him and lie him on your chest. You can be sitting in a chair or lying down in bed - good way of getting rest.

Lying skin-to-skin encourages babies to look for feeds. You can also take him into a bath which can stimulate rooting for a feed.

Giving EBM via syringe is good as you are avoiding nipple confusion. Since has had good amounts of EBM try leaving him longer before giving him any more. Give him a chance to get hungry.

Hi sistergrim, I think you are doing heroically well! You are already getting great advice here, but in case it heartens you to hear similar stories, dd didn't feed from me until day 5, and then it was thanks to a brilliant breastfeeding counsellor spending half an hour with us until dd (and I) finally had our first feed - not a dry eye at the b/f support group, it was a great feeling!

You will get there with the right help. My nipples are flat and although that doesn't help, it is not impossible. And fwiw she had some formula for a few days and although it is far from my ideal, I just had to forgive myself and accept that, at the time, it was the best I could do.

Also, stopping visitors (except for my mum and dad) for a week really really helped as I spent most of that time with my boobs out and feeling pretty low!

Hi sistergrim, you're doing so well just to get this far! DS was both sleepy and a bit jaundiced after horrible birth, so he wasn't keen on food for a while. Our midwife advised us to put him sleep by the window as natural light helps with jaundice. If you are worried that he keeps falling asleep when feeding you can gently stroke his forehead with a damp washcloth to keep him cool (he's more likely to be sleepy when he gets warm) but please remember that he really will eat when he's hungry. Loads of babies lose weight in the first week or so; that's why they're born with extra fat stores. Just try and remember that we've all been through this and it does get better

sorry,me again. things getting so confusing. midwife says he has lost more than 10per cent of birth weight which is not good. she says whether bmilk or formula he needs to be getting 90mls in a 4 hour period - there is no way i can get this much breast milk! he not feeding from breast at all, he is not jaundiced. will carry on working at getting him on breast but main concern and confusion is to how much we should be giving him. if relying on expressed breast milk through syringe how much should we try to get into him, how much is essential? so don't wan t to use formula but obviously don't want to put him in any danger if weight loss is too drastic.

Has he really lost more than 10%? What kind of scales was he weighed on? I was told that about my first and tbh, I think they just weighed him wrongly. How much did he weigh at birth? When was he last weighed? 3hourly feeds of 20-30mls of breastmilk is even more than 90mls, surely? As Mears said, that's loads. Esp on day 3 when many women haven't even had their milk come in. Have you asked your antenatal ward about breastfeeding clinics? Done the going to bed thing? Had a bath with your baby?

Hang on...90mls in a four hour period???

Sistergrim,

I believe 10% is the norm that babies lose after their born and it can take a week or more to get their weight back up
Try to get him on your breast. If he doesn't want to nurse put your ebm in a bottle so you can see what he's getting. Just wake him up and shove the bottle in his mouth. Don't worry about nipple confusion. Maybe if he starts sucking on the bottle he may start nursing. I know that if you want to bf a bottle is not you ideal answer, but it may be a temporary solution to your current problem. Remember it's breast milk that is best, it doesn't matter how he gets it.

Out of curiousity was you ds born early? My ds was born early and with the same issue. Sometimes I think that babies that are born early don't eat well because they just want to "cook" some more

sistergrim - I am not at all surprised he has lost over 10% of his birthweight - has was not feeding at all for the for couple of days. You are now getting EBM into him and trying him at the breast. Please ask to be put in touch with the breast feeding advisor of the hospital. You need assistance to get feeding established. It can be done.

Midwife is calculating 90ml of EBM as being equivalent of formula ( it is a calculation for formula milk). Babies need less EBM than formula to get enough nutrients by the way.

Sistergrim,

You are doing a FANTASTIC job.. keep up the hard work and you will succeed. But i would definately call one of the breastfeeding helplines;

Breastfeeding Network 0870 900 8787
La Leche League 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust 0870 444 8708

Also, i would COMPLETELY DISAGREE with bottle feeding especially if he hasn't latched on to your breast, he will still get the milk from a syringe and it will be just as easy for you.. This is coming from someone who has experience nipple confusion and it isnt fun.

Hang in there, your doing a great job ;)

And there are more calories in breastmilk than formula!
Your midwife (as quite a few midwives!) is probably not 100% up to speed on BF... Mears is a very good midwife on BF

And definitely do skin to skin !!!!

hi there, we still going here - though has been touch and go. Have broken down several times and still continue to do so though determined not to give up. Have been through syringing, bottle, cups...he is now taking from me though only via nipple shields. Am now panicking about using these as keep reading things saying not to use but if this is the only way we can get him to breastfeed it can't be wrong or bad can it?

Am worried he not getting enough but his nappies are dirty and we are keeping a close eye on his weight. he only seems to feed for 20mins or less but we can't force him to take more can we...

Don't like using the shields-rub on his face and sounds uncomfortable when he swallows, but again if it is getting him to feed it can't be wrong can it? Oh people, so desperate for him just to feed comfortably, don't want to do the wrong thing though to hurt him.

I've used nipple shields for both my dss. They were absolutely fine and as the baby got bigger they stopped needing them. My only concern with them was the pain of sterilising them. I liked the Medela ones best so if you fancy a change maybe try them.

DS1 would feed for 45 mins per side, ds2 for 10 mins per side. I know which I prefered! Just because he's only going for 20 mins doesn't mean he's not getting everything he needs. You might just have a fast flow which was freaking him out while he was tiny but now he's a bit bigger he can cope with. Try removing the nipple shield after your let down has gone through and see what he thinks. If he fusses you can always put it back on.

HTH

HI there

I have a 3 week old daughter and found the first 12 days of breastfeeding HELLISH. Combination of flat nipples, baby not latching on and sucking hard enough and lots of soreness. I would dread every feed and would have a tearful, hormonal breakdown at least once a day.

However, magically everything is now OK. I bought a big box of formula, determined to give up, but the next day was when it all got a lot better. What worked for me: seeking help from the local NHS breastfeeding counsellor - she visited me 3 times at home (important you get someone to visit at home rather than the hospital). The correct positioning is essential, and not something that comes naturally to people like me.Also used breast pump to siphon off some milk to make breasts softer.

It is usually the case that those that persevere with breastfeeding get to grips with it eventually. The problem is that no-one can tell you when that will be - tomorrow, next week?? . I hope you can persevere, you are obviously a determinted person despite feeling low. No one could accuse you of not trying.

Me again. Am still struggling desperately. he is now on the breast every time, still with the shields, but just can't relax about the whole feeding thing. When we should wake him;has he fed enough;is my milk coming out;how long will he stay on for;how many dirty nappies will he have today to see if having enough;will my milk keep coming if he only taking a bit;should I be expressing as well - my head won't stop i just want to cry and cry, so exhausted and feel so ill all the time.

Also worrying about relationship - am a physical and mental mess, not much fun to come home to, so scared he regrets it and just wants his old life back - feel so insecure and so scared. Just can't do anything in a day and csn't see how i ever will.

Now one nipple is really sore and not sure i can feed on it - can i just use one breast? Should i be expressing the other one?

Any help to any of the above would be so appreciateddd.

sistergrim - you really are doing amazingly well... you have stuck with it with what sounds like little rl support from the professionals around you, and are now feeding directly.

I would offer a feed every time he wakes, or wake him after 3 hours, whichever comes first (not waking him at night even after 3 hrs, but just feed whenever he wakes.

Can you hear him swallow at all when feeding?Do you get wet nappies?I think dirty nappies are less of an indicator as bm is so perfect they often have fewer pooh than ff babies.

Does your dp support you at all. Try and talk to him. It's still early days, and a big adjustment for both of you...dp came home to me in tears almost every day when dd2 was tiny, and it did pass.

Are you using anything on your nipple?Lasinoh helped me. If you can't feed, then do express to avoid engorgement, but direct feeding is better if you can bear it.

Sorry about rubbish typing - wriggling baby on knee....keep in touch.

wow! just read this thread through and had to post and say that you are doing brilliantly!!!!! absolutely brilliantly!!! stiil breastfeeding despite all the trouble!

you do NOT need to wake him for a feed. that's the first thing to stop worrying about. If he's asleep then he's content.the first rule of parenting to learn is never wake a sleeping baby!!!

On your early post you mentioned being able to hear him swallowing- if you can hear him swallowing thenhe's getting the milk well and efficiently. feeds get shorter the older they get because they become much more efficient at getting the milk out, so 20 mins is probably fine for him!
Forget about how many dirty nappies he has.So long as he is producing wet ones that is what is important. breast milk is so well designed that the body uses most of it up so b/f babies poo abit less than f/f babies i think.

How much sleep are you getting? Are you going to bed with baby while he is a sleep? if not then do so. get naked and cuddle up with babe so you are both getting skin to skin-this will feel lovely and also help with the feeding. just let him nuzzle your breasts and get used to the feel of them.
be kind to yourself. it is still such early days. having a baby is like starting a new job, right after having a operation! it really does get better i promise. and get your dh to go andnbuy some lanisoh for your nipples-it really helps.

Just wanted to add that iIthink you're doing a GREAT job.
It does seem so overwhelming at the beginning but it will get easier.
I didn't really wake my dd to feed her. I found that if I did she would be too tired to feed. The mw said I should but she didn't normally go more than 5 hours and that was only the first few weeks. After that it was more like 3-4 hours between feeds. She fed much better when she woke ready for milk herself.
Can you try and feed without the shields every few feeds and just see how he goes. If he needs them though then thats better than not bf atall isn't it??
Are you using the things that you wear between feeds to encourage your nipples to come out more? And try the skin to skin , it really does help.
Where are you in country??

thank You for all your kind words. We are in London Princess Mel.

Is so hard to know if always doing the right thing.The feeding is our life at the moment and long for the day when we can both just enjoy are little man, just want it all to 'click' but don't see how it will ever change.

Try without shields but he doesn't want to know. Just wish I was stronger - in both senses. feel so weak and shakey all the time.

So sorry to moan on - just upset.