DESPERATE and CONCERNED

[sistergrim]

Please help me. My 2 day old son is really struggling to breast feed and doesn't seem to be latchng on or making much effort atall to suck. What do I do? Midwife has said to give some formula in the emantime but am quite against it though obviously don't want to harm my baby by him going without - really don't think he has had hardly anything at all since born and `i mean virtually nothing. My breats are now rock solid so assume the milk is coming in. Midwife said thought nipples did not stick out enough. Am going to a clinic tomorrow but what should we do, how long can i leave baby this way?

sistergrim I've read through your story on this thread and just want to say how brilliantly you are doing. *(AND that what POOKA just said is the wisest thing I've yet seen on mumsnet. And You are SUPPOSED to be gushing tears, fears, emotions all over the place at this point. Which is why getting outside help is just great, they love giving it.) AND just think how much you have learned and how far you've come since you started. I can't claim to know anything about nippleshields but the basic deal with breastfeeding is that it develops and changes and improves so fast. AND YOU are so noble and great to be wanting to breast feed him: my doctor friends swear by it - BUT DON'T think you will change who your son is by giving him formula. some mums end up giving it and feel so muhc more releived and happier about who they are, with the result that their lo is better off too. So even in the worst case scenario (going onto formula exclusively) thigns are not that bad. But keep breastfeeding if you want to! you must just keep chugging with it, see how it goes and respect whatever decision you make. I have a friend who gave some formula and some breast for the first few weeks and then managed to get the breast feeding on a better footing and was able to pretty much dispense with formula. Better that kind of compromise than giving up altogether. but your breastfeeding is going well considering!

How much EBM to give? I'm impressed that you have a choice! When I expressed in the first weeks nothing came out! you couldn't even fill the tip of a syringe with waht was coming out of my boob. I'm still breastfeeding dd who is now 7 months. She had a bit of formula to start with because of early probs and I KNOW how horrid those probs were.

Your partner just needs to support you in the wish to breast feed your kid, and if that means encouraging you to get all the help you need, why not try a lactation consultant? someone you can have on hand to ask all those questions. that person can give you a method rather than lots of advice coming from different people. I know of one but don't have number to hand. Just feel encouraged and congratulated on persevering so brilliantly and getting so far!

Sistergrim, how's it going? I posted weeks ago just after your OP and wanted to see you you were doing. Hope you are feeling a bit better. Everyone is right - I think we all go through this. I know it's hard when you have your heart set on BF and it ends up being such a struggle. I was in tears for weeks. Is the nipple shield helping? Have you contacted La Leche League or a bf counselor?

Sorry, far too many questions. Just wanted you to know I'd popped back to see how you are.

Fab post pooka!

Hi, how are you sistergrim???

Hello, I'm still here and still struggling. Thought it was getting better but turning again.

He continues to feed from me using shields and continue to try without. Don't mind this if he is doing fine then fine that's how it has to be...it is the expressing that is upsetting and confusing me.

I have been told I need to express as much as poss - is this just because i use shields? But i am getting in a real state over it. Is hard to fit in - can't put him straight down after a feed as would be sick and is not always settled anyway - so am spending that time getting more and more stressed about needing to express so ruins any quality time.

He only feeds from one breast at a time so why do i need to drain both breasts each time if only one is needed- am i not just encouraging milk to be made that is not needed anyway?Can I just do the breast he fed from and leave the other for the next feed? Isn't that how it should work?

Lots of my friends never expressed at all just fed baby and thaat was that.Am molst likely to give up because of the expressing.

Can anyone help?

When my boobs go slightly longer in the night they get much fuller and he feeds much better

ok. have you looked at kellymom.com? or have you contacted a breastfeeding counsellor. thing is everything you're trying to solve is easily resolved. however, lots of people will give you all kinds of conflicting advice on here which will confuse you more. i really think you need a proper counsellor who can sit and work through this with you and see the whole picture.

sistergrim??

Well done for continuing to breast feed this long!!! It sounds as though you are doing brilliantly depsite the odds.

I agree with Pooka about the uncertaity of feeding in the early days. Our fourth nearly did my head in 8 months ago and I was in a frenzy of feeding, expressing and sterilising for only a week. She is now still breast fed and a very content little being despite her rough start.

I am hoping that someone will be along shortly with better advice about the expressing after every feed because I would agree with you that it might no longer be necessary. The nice thing will be that in the event that baby is not gaining weight as expected from breast feeing that you could offer the expressed milk from a cup or a spoon.

You need to drain both breasts otherwise the milk will stop in the one not drained or reduced. You need to try him on both breasts at each feed and keep trying at each feed without the shields too. For the first few months I started each twin on a different breast at each feed (hard to remember that sometimes) and then they settled down to their own side so they could work the supply and demand to that particular twin on that side.

If you could just get him to feed on each side a bit each feed, if his nappies are wet and if he's putting on some weight then there's no need to express anything at all. Expressing is a huge nuisance and takes a lot of time, all that sterilising etc.

What would happen at a feed if you didn't have the shields? Can he not latch on without them?

I have no idea if you should or should not be expressing, sistergrim.....and nor will anyone else who posts on here. Each situation is individual and there is so much going on with you and your baby it's hard to know what would be best.

Talk boards are great for support, but they cannot, or should not, tell someone like you what to do.....you will end up more confused and upset, and there is far more going on with you than 'just' the feeding.

You are being an absolute hero in hanging on in there - but you need REAL LIFE HELP from someone who can take the whole history and who can see you and your baby as real people with your own unique needs.

It can be scary to seek help - mumsnet is anonymous, and that has its strengths. But to seek Real Life help you need to pick up the phone and talk to someone....make an appointment at the bf clinic, or speak to one of the vol helplines, who will almost certainly suggest you go to a bf clinic as well.

It is horrible to be so unhappy and confused. Make the step to change things - it's the only way. Mumsnet will not be able to sort it all out for you, but we can support you

thing is i have spoken to several councillers and seen one too and they all say differtent things how am i meant to know who is right.

just want to be able to enjoy my baby

OK - go with the one you have seen, as long as she has seen you feed and you trust she knows what she is talking about.

You can't follow what everyone says, and I can tell you with confidence not everyone knows how to help with breastfeeding, even if they mean well, and want very much to help.

just can't do that - she said i need to express 8 times a day and i just can't do that

I am so impressed you are persevering and glad you have sought 'real life' help too. My suggestion (and i hope tiktok will be back to tell you if I am right!) is that the b/f counsellor who will give the best advice is the one who has seen you and your ds for at least one entire feed. See this counsellor as often as she is available and you need her. There are women who have been coming to the bf group I go to for 6 months, not because it is hellish for 6 months, but because some of us need to be looked after and encouraged and reminded of what to do for the best.

Oops, so slow at typing, tiktok is there for you

sister - if you were not feeding direct at all, then expressing at least 8 x would be important. But you are feeding direct....

Call the counsellor, tell her there just aren't the hours in the day to express 8 x and work out something you can achieve that takes into account the fact you are doing some direct breastfeeding as well.....she needs to know that what she suggested just isn't going to happen

I think it's very hard to give breastfeeding advice without seeing the mother and baby. Can you find someone who will come to the house and watch what the baby does when he feeds?

am only feeding with the shields does that count as direct?

Am really losing it don't know that i can do it. is it so evil if i give my baby formula?

Shields count as direct, yes - they may not allow the milk to be removed as easily, that's why they have their drawbacks.

It's not 'evil' to give formula - as if

But you need proper help and the chance to discuss everything sister - you have been feeling low and pressured for 6 weeks, and as far as I can see, no one has really met your needs. This isn't a feeding 'problem' or at least not solely a feeding problem - is your HV any good? Can you talk to her about your options?

Right from the beginning when your midwife suggested formula on day 2 and day 5 when you were solely expressing and feeding by syringe....you have had enormous challenges and (as far as I can tell) not very good professional help. All this has made things worse, and my heart goes out to you.

Sticking with one person/source of information you trust and can respond to will help, someone who really listens to you, and helps empower you to make up your own mind - that might be your HV, it might be the counsellor, it might be a knowledgable friend....but it has to be someone who can see you, IMO.

I hope things go better for you.

It's not 'evil' to give formula. The only breastmilk my 6'3", athletic, disgustingly healthy dh has ever tasted is mine (we tasted it to see what we were giving our children)! And ds1, who was mix-fed, is one of the healthiest and most intelligent children I know.

You have worked so hard at bfing and have given your ds the best start you possibly could. You can be proud of yourself. Don't beat yourself up, reward yourself for your achievements throughout a very tough time.

Of course it's not. My mother tried breastfeeding me in 1961 and gave up and I haven't turned out that badly. But she mostly did that because family members pressured her. I think you need a calm expert breastfeeding expert to sit with you when you feed. My sister feeding her twins... I found if I could be there with her, showing her what to do to latch the baby on really helped, much more than what she might be reading on line or in a book or even hearing by telephone.

But if you're able to express and he's getting enough even if you gave up breastfeeding you're doing very well at feeding him your expressed milk so it's not breastfeeding or formula. Another option is he has your expressed milk.

What happens when you put him on the breast without the shield on? Does he put his mouth on and suck?

am once more so touched and so comforted by your messages. don't want to give up but also don't want to be a physical and mental mess all the time.
re seeing someone just don't know who to go to will seek out a cl;inic but private visits to home are so expensive and again would not know who to try.not sure what more anyone could do re getting him to feed without shields - feeds fine with them and occassionally without but acts like doesn't know what to do when it not there. it is more the expressing situayion that i am completely confused about and quite down.

Sister, would you feel able to call the counsellor who talked about 8 x a day expressing and talk again to her?

thing is that is what she said so that is obviously what she thinks