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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Now here's an article that's going to settle the breast v. bottle debate once and for all...

272 replies

emkana · 25/04/2006 12:25

\link{http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article360047.ece\or maybe not}

I particularly like the paragraph about the German nutritionist Wink. Now that bit has totally convinced me that the benefits of b/feeding are being exaggerated. [snort]

Honestly, what a piece of cr*p.

OP posts:
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:47

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Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:49

I just wanted to be asked so that I could then reply with "Can't tell you because of anonymity"
Grin

Those of you who have paid attention in my previous threads (sit up there now!) will know which one is mine anyway because I've said on MN where I live.

OP posts:
Harpsichordcarrier · 26/04/2006 22:50

go on then emkana, which one is you?
or would you like us to guess?? Wink

Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:51

go on then guess Wink

OP posts:
Harpsichordcarrier · 26/04/2006 22:53

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emkana · 26/04/2006 22:54

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HunKeRMunKeR · 26/04/2006 22:54

Oh, there must be thousands, Emkana

[inappropriately flippant]

Did you buy German souvenirs today and covet shoes, btw?

Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:55

No I stayed in in the end because cleaner turned up.

Instead had a complete nervous breakdown after cleaner left and sobbed to dd2 that I couldn't go on anymore and that she should just give me some peace and quiet.

So you see I had much more fun. Grin

OP posts:
Harpsichordcarrier · 26/04/2006 22:56

aha, good letter
splendid work
amazing you have the energy to be arsed with letter writing with everything going on at the mo, if you dont mind me saying

Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:57

It's nice to be diverted every now and then and to pretend that everything is normal.

OP posts:
HunKeRMunKeR · 26/04/2006 22:57

Oh, Emkana Sad Tomorrow you must covet shoes. Even online. Or something. We can have a thread for it and everything.

V good letter.

Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 22:59

The letter was cut short by the letters editor btw, but to be fair the rest of what I had written wasn't that good anyway.

Have best intentions to have a more positive day tomorrow, hunker.

OP posts:
HunKeRMunKeR · 26/04/2006 23:01

Should be about tomorrow afternoon if you need someone to post drivel at you (cos everyone needs that, right? I'm kidding myself, aren't I?!).

Original poster
emkana · 26/04/2006 23:02

My main target for tomorrow is to have a good day with dd2, so I don't know how much time I will spend on MN tomorrow.

But your drivel is lovely Wink

OP posts:
HunKeRMunKeR · 26/04/2006 23:03

Much better way to spend the day - will probably post some drivel anyway though Wink Grin

beatie · 27/04/2006 09:27

There are a few more letters printed today. One from a father, which is nice to see.

Pruni · 27/04/2006 09:30

At the risk of being dull, I do think it's crap that women are expected to go back to work and exclusively breastfeed or pump. However she seems to be confusing things, I thought it was much more of a stress in the States where they get 6 weeks off if lucky (or something). And it is glib to throw expressing into the equation, it's a crappy crappy life having a relationship with a breastpump that for whatever reason you don't want.
Unfeminist is the wrong word, misogynistic is better.

The sentence about debating whether or not bm and formula might be on a par is one of the ones that makes this a stupid article. And debate is the wrong word. But there's lots to discuss that isn't done so very objectively atm imo. (By either 'side'.)

Harpsichordcarrier · 27/04/2006 09:45

I agree Pruni, but she has it completely arse about face.
I agree, it is rubbish to pressure women to return to work too early (whatever method of feeding they use). But to say "therefore they shouldn't breastfeed" is a total non sequitur.
She clearly had a terrible time with bf (an experience which is so very very common that it is almost commonplace - and that is common among those who go on to bf/mixed feed/formula feed. But to move from "I had a terrible time THEREFORE breastfeeding isn't best and isn't necessary" rather than "I had a terrible time SO how can women in my situation be helped." And, "women are pressured to bf and return to work, so they shouldn't bf" rather than "women are prssured to bf and return to work SO what about longer/better paid mat leave/more flexible working." It just smacks of sloppy thinking and feeble retrospective justification.
I also think it is sloppy thinking to say - women are pressured into bf and lots of them have difficulty and so there should be less pressure. I think that argument starts from the wrong place. If there is pressure on women to bf, it is because of the many benefits for mother and baby and I really fight shy of any suggestion that those benefits are downplayed to reduce the pressure on women. I had a REALLY shitty time for the first few weeks of bf and if I didn't have a very clear idea of the benefits I might have given up. And I am very glad I didn't.

Original poster
emkana · 27/04/2006 09:48

That's the thing that's often forgotten in all those accusations against the so-called breastfeeding "mafia" who puts so much pressure on women to breastfeed:

If (if) they do then they do it not for their own personal gain, but out of concern for the health of babies and mothers.
That should make people think, surely?

It's not like there are multinational breastmilk companies who push an inferior product for profit...

OP posts:
Harpsichordcarrier · 27/04/2006 10:21

actually emually, emkana it is one of the things that actually genuinely upsets me.
I don't mind so much the namecalling - militant/gestapo/mafia. Offensive and unpleasant but trivial really.
what I find upsetting is the accusation that anyone who supports bf is "making women feel guilty" and acting from motives other than conern for the health/well-being of women and babies.
harsh, I think.

MrsBigD · 27/04/2006 10:21

oh my so many big words Grin

I would hope that the BF 'Mafia' would push it for the good of the baby/mother Grin.

When I struggled the 'Mafia' Godfathers were the HV's! You must must must! With differing confusing advice making it really hard. I had it all topped up by 'supermum' next door. She probably could have fed mine along with hers Grin

As for breast milk par formula... probably not yet, but maybe one day with all the technological advances etc.

Considering they now have pigs that have Omega 3 genetically included (so wrong imho) urgh.

Some might argue that with all the pollutants breast milk might be tainted whereas formula is 'pure' (and lacking antibodies ... I know ... before you say it Grin).

I still maintain a mother should do what she is happy with, without pressure and 'tut tut's' being applied but support being offered Smile

mcmudda · 27/04/2006 10:31

Really disliked this article. Angry

Why isn't formula available to mums unable to breastfeed on prescription? Any other body fluid that was necessary to sustain life (ie insulin/blood transfusions etc) would be free when it was clear that someone was unable to produce it themselves. So why is it marketed? Can you imagine if you could pick up a bag of insulin from ASda?

Mums who can't breastfeed should be able to go to their GP and be prescribed the alternative. Until breastmilk is bottled and health professionals are properly educated in b/f that's the only alternative.

joelalie · 27/04/2006 10:37

I didn’t read the original article until I saw someletters about in yesterdays paper and had to search for Tuesday edition just so I could get cross …..

Stupid * !! AngryI have no problem with her deciding not to bf – although I thought her reasons were weak, let’s face it we all have difficulties to start with, I nearly gave up with DS#1 – but daring to suggest that because she couldn’t do it that we all should stop…’perhaps it’s time to move on now ?’ WTF!!!!! Trying to assuage her (quite unneccesary) guilt by saying that all mothers who breastfeed are wasting their time and not benefitting their babies at all. And that classic line - I want my body back – who took it away from her ??? She decided to get pregnant so why be surprised when the job takes longer than 9 months?? It takes years to raise a child. If her DH really wanted to feed the baby and she didn’t want to express the odd bottle of formula is OK – I mixed fed DS#1 and DD – but she took the advice to mix feed as a reason to give up. And it’s perfectly possible to go back to work and continue to bf – I did, full-time when DS#1 was 3 months old (if she wants guilt she should try that) – in fact one of the worst things was the hassle of having to sterilise and fill 4 bottles every day for the next day – what a pita!!!

I have heard many mothers say they are made to feel guilty for not breast-feeding – well OK, I can see that must be hard but if we want to encourage breast-feeding so I don’t see how it can be different. Formula is OK but breast is best. If you decide to bottle feed you have made your decision based on your judgement so stick to your guns. As I mentioned I fed a combination of formula and breast (mostly breast) and I feel no guilt at all – everyone does the best they can.

The only thing in her whole article that I agreed with was the idea that the problems that may come with starting to bf should be highlighted during pregnancy – I floated into bfing my newborn expecting it to be easy and it was not! I had cracked nipples, insufficient milk to start with, a very large and very hungry baby who wanted to feed all the time and I was in a terrible state. If I’d been forewarned instead of thinking that it was going to one rosy-coloured dream I wouldn’t have come down to earth with such a bump. Second and third time round I new what to expect and just sat it out knowing that in the end it would be OK.

Sorry that was so long....feel better now Smile

MrsBigD · 27/04/2006 10:41

'I can see that must be hard but if we want to encourage breast-feeding so I don’t see how it can be different'

apologies if I misread this but infusing 'guilt' in bottle feeders is necessary as an encouragement to bf?

joelalie · 27/04/2006 10:44

I meant that unless we are going to say the formula feeding is as good as breastfeeding there are going to be ff mothers who feel guilty.