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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

Now here's an article that's going to settle the breast v. bottle debate once and for all...

272 replies

emkana · 25/04/2006 12:25

\link{http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article360047.ece\or maybe not}

I particularly like the paragraph about the German nutritionist Wink. Now that bit has totally convinced me that the benefits of b/feeding are being exaggerated. [snort]

Honestly, what a piece of cr*p.

OP posts:
MrsBigD · 25/04/2006 13:57

guessing that nowadays people are probably too worried about Hepatitis and HIV and the like to have somebody else nurse their child?

NotQuiteCockney · 25/04/2006 14:00

moondog, I got curious, and found this \link{http://www.lalecheleague.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVJulAug95p53.html\link} on the LLL site. Looks like wet nursing died out late in the 19th century, largely due to the development of formula.

That article also goes into "cross nursing" which is when mums do swaps. Annoyingly, the LLL is opposed, largely for reasons of infection.

NotQuiteCockney · 25/04/2006 14:01

MBD, wet nursing is also (and historically was) quite expensive, at least if you didn't have any slaves. Formula is a lot cheaper.

Pruni · 25/04/2006 14:03

Well, most of this article was about her own experience, and I have no problem with that.
I didn't like the way it was used to denigrate breastfeeding and those who choose to breastfeed, work hard at it, and love it.
And I'm sorry that she put the article together the way she did because there are some very interesting questions about the validity of the research into breastfeeding, how it is carried out, the figures garnered and especially how the statistics are used. I for one would like to read a good article on that, not adulterated with "Well one German person told me..."
And I say that as someone who is 100% behind breastfeeding but deeply frustrated by the crap we are told about it and where this leads us to.

moondog · 25/04/2006 14:12

Thanks for that NQC. Smile
It's fascinating isn't it??
Pruni, lol at the 'one German person' thing.
Increasingly the cult of the individual journalist is blossoming in the broadsheets I find,which although often interesting,is purely subjective and surely more appropriate in a magazine than a newspaper.

As an Observer reader,am bored witless by kathryn Flett and Mariella Frostrup wittering on about their personal circumstances,as if they are the only women over the age of 40 to have had a baby.

By journos for journos.
Bollocks about trends and backlashes and the post modern age.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Harpsichordcarrier · 25/04/2006 14:13

well out of interest I had a look at Birth and Beyond and Yehudi Gordon may want to consider sueing this woman for gross misrepresentation Grin
she has taken three benefits from a list of 14 (some more subjective/dubious than others) and a list of 7 downsides. For example she misses outthe antibodies to reduce infection, and the protection against illness in the first year (esp respiratory and gastric illnesses). The three she lists are not mentioned as the "three major ones" nor are they numbered as such. Although, tbh, I was rather amused by the notion that someone might read that "breast milk may reduce the risk of infant death" and say "That's it? only possibly reducing the risk of death tsk" but possibly that is just my warped sense of humour.

moondog · 25/04/2006 14:17

lol Harpsi
Quite!
People filter out whatever it is they don't really want to hear. (I know,I've done it myself,re copious amounts of wine and booze and sitting around all day and still looking presentable. Wised up eventually.)

alexsmum · 25/04/2006 14:19

i know that she lived with her family in the lodge house of a big house. Her husband was the coachman, and one of her daughters ended up being a housemaid there.
when you see photo's of my mum's gran etc they are all very well endowed in the bra department.
mrs bigd, i wasn't saying that everyone should do what i did. just saying that it can be really hard and end up ok.the ds's has some formula during that time too( mainly cos my milk was full of blood.yuk)

Harpsichordcarrier · 25/04/2006 14:20

I am increasingly interested by the notion of wet nursing moondog
I am clearly born to lactate Grin and, anecdotally, I understand it used to go on in my family (father's side)
I think it is a shame that LLL are opposed to it in principle. I would not be sqeamish about feeding a friend's or relative's baby but I wonder how I would feel about doing it for money

Pruni · 25/04/2006 14:21

V interesting HC and reinforces view of her as shoulder-bechipped.
Journalism as MD describes is like the writing with all the difficult bits missed out. Like the, er, information and insight. Yawn.

Harpsichordcarrier · 25/04/2006 14:22

i would type out the whole paragraph if I could be arsed Grin
it is quite a balanced view, actually. I like Birth and Beyond, wish I'd read it when I was pregnant

moondog · 25/04/2006 14:26

I don't think unofficially they would be against it Harpsi.
I think however in present day,an official line has to be taken.
I've seen a couple of articles in the Association for B'feeding Mothers' magazine re this (have been getting it for about 5 years).
One very detailed one about a baby whose weight was dropping off drastically and the mother's friend stepped in to help while she did a l.ot of pumping on top of her usual feeding regime.
It could be in the archives.

My sisters and I have done it with each others for a laugh,but my sister(whose children were a lot older) once took my 4 week old dd who was incredibly colicky and sucky and 'dry fed' her one night to restore my sanity.
Grin

Harpsichordcarrier · 25/04/2006 14:28

I offered to do it for a friend who was having loads of problems with mastitis
not for money obv

moondog · 25/04/2006 14:33

She didn't take you up on it then??
One of my friend's was on holiday and flight was delayed for hours and hours. There was another woman there with a small baby also who wasrapidly runnning out of formula and getting really panicky.
Myfriend offered to b/feed her baby if need be.
As it happens,it didn't come to this but she said the woman and her dh were incredibly touched and grateful.

NotQuiteCockney · 25/04/2006 14:41

Some Canadian friends of mine who have babies nearly the same age have cross nursed. Well, one baby was ok about it, and the other refused. I think they were both over four months at the time.

Nice to have the option, anyway, means they could both have nights out, as couples, without any pumping etc.

Also, my local BFC friend knows a lesbian couple who were planning to cross nurse (but were a bit sheepish about asking if it was ok!). They had their babies a few months apart, both by the same dad, which sounds like a good setup. Imagine having a live-in alternative nursing mum!

Oh, and she also knows one local Bengali woman whose sister cross nursed for her when she was very ill post-section.

Olipop · 25/04/2006 14:43

moondog - what does dry fed mean (sorry if I'm being durr...can you still blame pregnancy brain when you have a 12 weeker!)

NotQuiteCockney · 25/04/2006 14:43

Oh, should have added, I would probably ok about cross nursing if appropriate circumstances ever arose. They haven't, though.

There was a case, in the US I think, a few years back, of a woman cross nursing without the baby's mom knowing about it or approving. I believe the woman was sued because of it.

LeahE · 25/04/2006 14:44

the most miserable thing about BF is when the little buggers mistake a roll of post-partum flab for your boob

Ah good, I'm not alone in that one then... Blush

Personally I intend to fight MrsBigD for Catherine Zeta Jones's body. How about we grab an arm each and do a best-of-three tug of war?

I shall also now go and parp quietly in a corner...

Harpsichordcarrier · 25/04/2006 14:47

no, it didn't come to that but she was OK about it but I wasn't to tell her dh Shock because he might not like the idea
so I was quite glad about that, becuase I didn't really want to be in the middle of a marital wet nursing decption conundrum, thanks very much
my life is complicated enough

NotQuiteCockney · 25/04/2006 14:50

That would be quite odd.

I did know someone who was still BF her DS but lying to her DH about it, as she'd said she would stop. It's probably pretty common, come to think about it.

moondog · 25/04/2006 14:50

Olipop,she just let the baby suck!

Do any of you remember that film'The Hand that rocks the cradle'??
The psycho nanny was b/feeding the baby on the sly.

lahdeedah · 25/04/2006 15:16

sorry haven't read the whole thread, but what a bizarre article!

why was she sitting in a special chair, reading a German vocab book? why not in bed or on the sofa in front of the TV like the rest of us??? and if she was hungry - then eat!! very strange woman.

she makes some interesting points about the inconsistent information given by midwives and lack of support for new mothers - but then draws the conclusion that therefore breastfeeding is pointless, and wouldn't we all be better off using formula. what a wasted opportunity.

hunkermunkfish · 25/04/2006 15:22

Also like Birth and Beyond - and lol at Harpsi being in middle of wetnursing drama Grin

As for the womean being cold and hungry...put on a jumper and eat some cake, nutter Grin

hunkermunkfish · 25/04/2006 15:22

(womean?! Freudian slip there, methinks Grin)

Caligula · 25/04/2006 15:35

Can I be bothered to write a mad ranting letter to the Independent about it?

Or do I write a mad ranting one to the Sunday Times about 40 years of misinformation?

Or do I stick to writing to my MP about the fact that dentists are opting out of the NHS?

Or to the council about the dog shit?

Decisions, decisions...