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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Breastfeeding - a contentious rant!

432 replies

jenbird · 22/08/2012 23:51

I may get flamed for this post but here goes:

I am very pro choice when it comes to breastfeeding. I have breastfed all 3 of my babies and I plan on doing the same with this one. However I would never say just because that is my choice it is right for everyone. I understand that different people have different needs and that actually although nutritionally BF may be best if it is making the mother incredibly anxious or miserable then I believe it is not necessarily the best thing for that mother or baby.
What I do hate though is people who say "I just didn't have enough milk" when actually what they mean is "I tried breastfeeding for 2 days, I didn't like it, it didn't work for me and I have decided to bottle feed".
This has happened very recently in my life. A very good friend said she couldn't feed her baby as she didn't have any milk. The reality was that the baby was unsettled a lot and she wasn't sure what to do. Her mother said she "needed" a bottle so she went with that. Her baby is sleeping pretty well at night now and all is fine.
Breastfeeding your first can be really hard work. It hurts, it comes with a huge uncertainty and you seem to spend an inordinate amount of your time feeding but it does have it's rewards too and once you get going it is far easier.
I just hate those flippant comments about not having any milk when actually it is just about choice. Don't devalue the effort I put in just because you didn't want to go down that path.

I obviously can't say this to my friend in RL so I bite my tongue.

Rant over. Hope I don't offend anyone. If I do blame it on crazy lady hormones!

OP posts:
EauRouge · 24/08/2012 11:32

Informed choice is the issue here. If mothers are being told by MWs who are not BF specialists (some are, but not all) that they "don't have any milk" so they should just give formula and the MWs do nothing to figure out why it has happened or what choices there might be for the mother then that is not an informed choice. It doesn't do anyone any favours, least of all future mothers who have yet to make the decision how to feed their baby.

This is why some people are so keen to bust BF myths. It is not to make mothers feel bad or imply they are lazy. It is to improve support for mothers. Mothers who discontinued BF before they wanted to have not 'failed', they have been failed by the system and they shouldn't feel guilty- angry maybe, but not guilty.

SchrodingersMew · 24/08/2012 11:33

I'm just showing the opposite end of the argument, that a refusal to give up bfing can be far worse than a refusal to try it.

I desperately wanted to bf, I had to give up after a couple of weeks as I needed to take a medication that isn't safe. :( But I stopped because I didn't want to harm my DS.

Lissy31 · 24/08/2012 11:48

Am reeling by how there appear to be 2 sides here and I'm on both

There are many reasons not to bf and many reasons not to share these with a stranger or even a close friend. My DS was a NICU baby so he was fed formula through a tube. I tried to start my milk supplies by pumping. Eventually I mix fed for 6 months. What a mistake. He was terrible at bf and took ages and still needed masses of formula. The moment I quit he thrived. I felt guilty about his time in NICU as I was convinced it was somehow my fault - it wasn't and I had pnd too so kept going. But I never told anyone about this. Because of this experience, I planned to bottle feed my DD and ironically it was so easy and quick I bf for 15 months even after I went back to work.

I never judge a mum about how she feeds her baby. She will have good reasons for doing what she does. I think what's rare is a mum who doesn't try her best. Please can we all stop being so nosy and judgemental. (takes deep breath and tries to calm down)

SophieLeGiraffe · 24/08/2012 11:50

This argument makes me really sad and I beat myself up for a long long time over my failure to feed DS. My "excuse" is that I didn't have enough milk. DS was tiny when he was born, and jaundiced and losing weight and never woke up to feed and never make a sound and I had to wake him every three hours to try to get him to latch on and strip him down to wake him up and put cold water on him to wake him up and then when he got on he'd stay there fore 45 mins - 1.5 hours and still never gained weight. Latch checked, MW's all agreeing he's latched on and feeding nicely when he does it. He used to scream the house down though whilst he's about it which was distressing for all of us.

I started expressing and did this regularly after feeding DS so I was nursing him for 45mins - 1.5 hours then taking another 45mins - 1.5 hours to express a tiny amount of milk. It was soul destroying and exhuasting.

I was advised to mix-feed and tried really hard to ensure as much as possible I was using the bottle to feed him the expressed milk. Where there wasn't enough expressed I used formula. I had to do this because he was very close to being admitted to hospital as failure to thrive and at this point a MW was coming daily, since they were so worried about him.

Now I wanted to breastfeed, all my friends were BFing, I live in an area with high rates, it's totally normal here. But I also wanted my baby to thrive and he wasn't. Formula would help him get there so formula is what we used.

I also noticed during this time that my milk started off beautiful, yellow and creamy and changed to pale and watery. I asked the MW, is this normal? She said yes but I think not. I think I was more stressed than I would let on and not eating or drinking enough to make a quality milk. I think I had a tiny baby who was hard to feed. I think I have huge boobs and inverted nipples. I think my milk never established for whatever reason because they never went hard, my nipples never elongated and essentially they just dried up. We just stopped and there was no pain, no withdrawal.

I also think that OPs such as this are hugely detrimental, specifically to women like me who aren't making excuses. We tried, it didn't work. Why is that your problem? I think we all forget we are essentially animals, subject to natural selection. In the natural order of things some babies aren't supposed to thrive. The babies of Mum's who couldn't feed or had poor uality milk would once have died. My baby didn't because I had the support I needed to understand there was another way.

I beat myself up a lot less about this before I joined MN and tortured myself reading endless BF/FF debates. MN is a source for support sure but don't forget these words on a screen can hurt people who are already feeling vulnerable.

Also - we're not martyrs, we all do what is best for our child. Just because you spent 24 hours a day feeding and it worked for you doesn't mean we didn't try hard enough. I tried a 24 hour feeding cycle and still got a weak undernourished baby.

maples · 24/08/2012 12:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PicklesThePottyMouthedParrot · 24/08/2012 12:00

I think it's possible to bust a few myths though without judging people on how the feed.

That's the ideal.

Schrodingers - my situation exactly. I didn't half beat myself up over it too!

PicklesThePottyMouthedParrot · 24/08/2012 12:01

Agree maples I see a lot of comments on mn though that are judgemental and really don't respect other people's choices & situations.

SchrodingersMew · 24/08/2012 12:02

Pickles I really beat myself up too, that's why I find it funny that I have been accused of being anti-bf, issues with people bfing in the past couple of days on here. :o So far from the truth.

DuelingFanjo · 24/08/2012 12:04

" my milk started off beautiful, yellow and creamy and changed to pale and watery. I asked the MW, is this normal? She said yes but I think not"

she was right, but don't beat yourself up - it's hard.

I had a baby in special care and woke up every 3 hours to express. Fortunately he was only there for 10 days and I was lucky that pumping went like a dream. He is still breastfed at 20 months but I will always feel annoyd with myself for allowing them to give him formula through a tupe less than 7 hours after he was born when I know (now) there was no need at all.

WednesdayNext · 24/08/2012 12:04

DuellingFanjo I'm not arguing with the stats. What I'm trying to say is that it doesn't matter what the reasons for not bf-ing are, ff mothers shouldn't have to justify them, and Bf-ing mothers shouldn't make assumptions based on a mother ff-ing for whatever reason. It's nobody else's business why a mother is ff-ing instead of bf-ing. That's a decision for each individual mother to make, whether they choose to ff or have to, they should not have to justify it to you because the stats suggest they are making excuses.

Also, you're working from the assumption that breastfeeding is always the best thing to do. It's not. I don't think anyone would ever say breast milk isn't the ideal, but sometimes breastfeeding isn't best for mother and baby. And before anyone tells me I'm misinformed, that nugget of information came to me from a highly experienced and well respected lactation consultant who wanted me to give up bf-ing my son before I did give in, because in her opinion MY breast milk wasn't what was best for MY baby and breastfeeding, in her opinion, wasn't going to help either of us recover.

maples · 24/08/2012 12:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bellyjaby · 24/08/2012 12:17

"I agree with what Eau rouge has just said.

There shouldn't be two sides just one set of things we can all agree on -

  • all women should have choices on feeding respected
  • all women who want to bf (and most say they do) should get accurate info on bf. The bf myths that are out there are very unhelpful for those women."

Can I also add the same re FFing. Some women want to, some find themelves in a situation where they have to and others choose to mix or switch later. Women should get accurate info on that too and the myths surrounding it don't help there either.

WhoWillDoMyHoovering · 24/08/2012 12:28

jenbird, totally with you on this. For those with genuine medical problems, their hand is forced into bottle-feeding whether they like it or not and they have my every sympathy if this wasn't what they wanted. For those that want to bottle feed, I never hear 'I am choosing to bottle feed'! It always seems to be paired with some lame excuse - and mostly they do seem extremely lame when I compare their attempts with the hell I went through of cracked, bleeding nipples and mastitis. Agree with another post that hospitals are enablers: I was totally naively uninformed in hospital and they were bunging me formula before I knew which way was up. Luckily I got myself down to those fabulous people at Breatfeeding Support who got me through the pain and agony and quickly back to exclusively breast. My blood boils at those who flippantly trill 'oooh, it just wasn't for me' as if it was such a walk in the park for the rest of us.

DuelingFanjo · 24/08/2012 12:32

"and Bf-ing mothers shouldn't make assumptions based on a mother ff-ing for whatever reason"

yes, but what I am trying to say is that, given the statistics for breastfeeding, it's only natural to think that the majority of women who FF are doing so for reasons other than genuine medical ones. I can assume that many of the women I see FF a newborn are doing so because they never even attempted to breastfeed and most of the rest are doing so because they decided to, or were persuaded to, give up.

BlackOutTheSun · 24/08/2012 12:39

Lame excuses Hmm

Who You chose to carry on bf through the hell you went through Why does a mother choose not too make it lame?

WednesdayNext · 24/08/2012 12:46

But why do you have to form any opinion on why another mother is feeding their child the way they are? Why is a mother ff-ing her baby any of your business? You don't HAVE to make any assumptions, you CHOOSE to.

tethersend · 24/08/2012 12:53

"For those that want to bottle feed, I never hear 'I am choosing to bottle feed'! It always seems to be paired with some lame excuse"

You have heard it several times on this very thread- just in case you missed it, I chose to bottlefeed, as BFing wasn't for me.

"My blood boils at those who flippantly trill 'oooh, it just wasn't for me' as if it was such a walk in the park for the rest of us."

Hang on.

What is it you want exactly?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 24/08/2012 12:56

Maybe women make excuses as to why they couldn't breastfeed, rather than simply saying they chose to formula feed, because they are afraid that they will get a hard time for the latter from some pro-breastfeeding people?

I should say that I never found that - the only person who condemned me for not breastfeeding was me - and I doubt that there are many, if any women who would have a go at another woman for her choice of how to feed her baby - but just because the fear is probably irrational, doesn't make it any less real.

Bellyjaby · 24/08/2012 12:58

I keep trying to put this into other things from life and just can't see it playing out with people seeing it as rational.

"that woman isn't at my church on Sunday, so I can safely assume she's a heathen" This is not my view btw, but is how the mad neighbour views a few of us round this way, even my neighbour who happens to attend a different church from her.

BlackOutTheSun · 24/08/2012 13:08

How about...

My dd had really bad reflux, ended up in hospital a few times because of it. For the first 6 months of her life she screamed and only slept for about 6 hours every 24. My friend who has a ds is a bit sicky and she annoys me as she doesn't know how bad dd was and the struggles I went through so she shouldn't come moaning to me about it?

If I had posted that I can be 100% sure that I would be handed a grip by the end of the first page.

DuelingFanjo · 24/08/2012 13:23

"But why do you have to form any opinion on why another mother is feeding their child the way they are? Why is a mother ff-ing her baby any of your business? You don't HAVE to make any assumptions, you CHOOSE to. "

for many reasons

because breastfeeding has been so so damaged by the formula industry
Because women do not get the help and support that they need
Because breasts have been so sexualised that people have convinced themselves there is something wrong with the most natural thing in the world
Because I was given bad advice and am thankfull I had the knowledge to fight against it
Because it's better for children to be breastfed (fact)
Because there are so many health benefits for mothers
Because I agree with a lot of what the OP is saying, that people lie and this means they are spreading myths about breastfeeding which makes it harder to get breastfeeding rates up.
Because as someone who breastfeeds I am likely to be looked down upon, viewed as abnormal, written about in the press and accused of harming my child.

I feel great sympathy for every mother who choses to FF because they have had a drip drip drip of negativity about Breastfeeding and I wish there was a way to reverse that situation.

I don't know that I look down on them, I feel great sympathy for many but I know that many mothers who ff do so because they have just chosen not to for what I consifer really awful reasons

Sioda · 24/08/2012 13:24

Who - I chose to mixed feed - because I wanted to. I think you have selective hearing if you're not hearing women say that. You also have a serious anger problem... Maybe you'd feel better if you went and made yourself a medal for the hell you put yourself through? Something like "Martyr Mother of the Year"?

DuelingFanjo · 24/08/2012 13:25

wanted to add...

I said "Because as someone who breastfeeds I am likely to be looked down upon, viewed as abnormal, written about in the press and accused of harming my child."

I would never tell a FF feeding mum that they are harming their child BTW.

BlackOutTheSun · 24/08/2012 13:31

But a parent who ff are being told that they are selfish and harming their child.

I don't think that judging anyone who bf or ff is going to change anything. You can dispel myths without making people feel like crap.

Sioda · 24/08/2012 13:33

"You can dispel myths without making people feel like crap." - Yes but that would defeat the purpose - which for some people is clearly to make themselves feel superior as mothers.