Naughty SMA

[showtunesgirl]

info.babymilkaction.org/wyethroadshow

monkeymoma - as a bfps about 95% of what I do at a bfing support group is bfing support (the other 5% seems to be me trying to get my children off the furniture!). As a supporter I don't have time to chit chat (unless it is part of the getting to know a mum part but then that's part of supporting her - not just focusing on her breasts!) there just isn't enough bfps to not do support and spend 2 hours having a good gossip - you are there to work (for free I might add).

from that link:
"Generally, because they no longer need breastfeeding support, they then go elsewhere to get the kind of postnatal support they are seeking?"
REALLY? where? where is there a calm non rushed space to talk face to face about all the many issues that can arrise around the subject of feeding?. Where can FFers get something comparable to a BFing group, where it is informal yet there are trained people there with up to date advice?
the HV drop in probably gave each mum an average of 180 seconds each if I remember correctly. Mum and toddler groups have no trained advisors to gently correct misconceptions...

OH YEAH I know where they can go, the SMA road show of course!

But do you want all the 'advice' to come from the people who are making (trying to make) a profit out of you? Is it going to be unbiased - would they recommend trying other brands (or heaven forbid trying to bf again)? Would they tell you outright if you aren't doing something correctly/safely (if you get p-ed off with an SMA worker who's to say you don't bad mouth them to all and sundry and swap brand allegiance to C&G?).

THe NCT runs post-natal support groups, children's centres run bumps'n'babes groups with a family outreach worker, there are other groups in the community - if there isn't anything like that near you - ask to start one!

Also, if you want longer with the HV ASK them for more time. I do peer support at a HV baby clinic - if a mum wants bfing support that's what I'm there for, if they want ffing support that's what the HV is there for. I know mums get extra time if they ask or they can get the HV to do a house visit where they will hopefully not get the company line but informed and unbiased advice about the issue they are facing.

"But do you want all the 'advice' to come from the people who are making (trying to make) a profit out of you?"
NOOOO that is why I think it would be better if there were FEEDING groups
but there aren't, and there IS a gap, which is why I can see how the road shows would appeal!
If the needs of FFs were all met by HVs and non specific baby groups, then the needs of BFers be met by them and BFers wouldn't need a feeding specific group, this is not the case but it is ALSO not the case for FFers

HVs and generic baby groups are not enough support for BFers? yes or no?
well they are not enough support for some FFers either! why so hard to believe?

monkeymoma, it seems to me that you've had quite a lot of bad luck. In all the mother / baby groups I've been to feeding always crops up as a discussion.

In fact, one of the groups I went to, most of the mums were mix feeding and they were discussing how much to give in bottles etc. I'm EBF so have no clue about bottles etc but did it make me feel that I could no longer go to the group? No.

HV only have a few hours of bfing training (and it might be years out of date judging by some of the howlers that I have heard!) - a bfc has 2 years of training.

No HV I have ever met would know such things as Sheenan's Syndrome affecting the pituitary gland, ways to bf a baby with a cleft lip, what positions are good for a baby with Down Syndrome, how bfing affects fertility, ways to make tandem feeding work, etc - that's specialist knowledge (not something I am claiming to have!) that takes years of study to accumulate (and a fair bit of practical 'been there done that').

HVs are generalists in the field of infant and family care not specialists in infant feeding - given that 99% of UK babies have formula at some point they need formula knowledge but they have bfing peer supporters/counsellors on hand for the bfing 'stuff'.

All those who say that formula companies shouldn't advertise, are you saying that formula milk should be banned? Or prescription only for those who have medication issues that conflict with BF? If not, and you have to accept that formula exists, then they will produce their product, and will advertise it so that you buy SMA rather than Aptamil rather than Cow & Gate.

The advertising is gradually becoming more pro-BF (I noticed Aptamil the other day saying "if you decide to move on from BF" rather than "When you decide"). Much better than when I had DD1 19 years ago.

I'm sure that's why there are more unnecessary milk products available such as toddler milk - and I will admit to giving DD3 the odd carton as a treat, as although it's full of sugar (guessing by the smell) there are also vitamin supplements in it and she's a picky eater.

so say you're pregnant with your first child, everyone you know FFs, you think you'll FF, MW chucks breast is best leaflets at you and you feel preached at. You want to start to prepare youself for FFing but don't know where to start. you see theres a breast feeding group on and one of these road shows, which do you go to eh?

now say same person saw a FEEDING group on, they might go along to find out about FFing, in the process they might change their mind

they're not likely to change their mind at the roadshow are they? but so long as they think that is the only safe friendly unrushed space to chat it over a bit, that's where some people will be!

I don't think anyone has called for formula to be banned No one wants to go back to babies being fed watered-down Carnation.

No mother should have to defend her choice of how she wants to feed her baby but sadly women are having to defend their ability to make a choice based on evidence, not marketing, and if they choose to breastfeed, the ability to get on with it without being undermined.

But if everyone you knows ffs, you think you'll ff - what help will you need to get started? If you have questions the MW should answer them or the HV at the ante-natal visit or any of your friends/family members or going into a baby shop like Boots or Mothercare and picking up one of their catalogues, or going on line to MN or similar.....

If you don't want to bf for what ever reason being sat in a room with women who have sore nipples, can't express or babies who want to feed every 1-2 hours (which is pretty normal for a bf baby) isn't going to change your mind when you walk out the door and visit a friend who has no sore nipples, milk in a carton and a baby who is on a feeding schedule.......

I'm not saying that anyone has called for it to be banned, just that it does exist, it is made by companies that want you to buy their product rather than another, so they will advertise as much as they can - I really wish that we could all learn to stop demonising the other camp and accept that the correct position is that we should all be given the opportunity to BF, and given encouragement to do so BUT there will always be a small proportion of women who really cannot due to health issues (theirs or the baby's) and there will be some people who just won't even though they know it is the preferable option nutritionally. Just as there are people who won't prepare home-cooked food but will choose to only eat ready meals.

And FWIW I've tried it all ways! DD1 was FF (tried BF but she was 7 weeks prem, tube-fed for 3 weeks, when I did try she had trouble latching on and was losing weight - back in 1993 there was not so much stigma attached to bottle feeding), DD2 was BF for 6 months (mixed towards the end of the 6 months as I couldn't get the hang of expressing and got an evening job at 3 months), DD3 was almost exclusively BF for 12 months (had a few cartons of formula for babysitters as I still struggled with the whole expressing lark, she probably had one a month).

When I did once give DD2 a bottle of precious EBM in a cafe in Guildford, I really felt the eyes of a dozen mothers boring into me - I wanted to wave a big placard saying, "it's EBM not formula so feck off!"

Housemum I also felt judged when I was bottle feeding my son, whether it was formula or breastmilk... But I do wonder how much of that judging was in my head rather than the fellow mums.

Everybody gets looked at, the bottle feeders, the formula feeders, the ones with the purée and the ones doing blw.

The other day I found myself looking at a mum breastfeeding an older child. My thoughts were "awww" but then she saw me and seemed a bit taken aback. I did suddenly wonder if I she thought I was judging negatively...

You're wrong about that truth, the person who encouraged me to BF was a midwife who said when I was pregnant "breast feeding is really really hard" and told the truth about cracked nipples, mastitis, thrush, growth spurts..

The "its wonderful and natural" crew had convinced me to FF

Knowing the worst that can happen can make it less of a scary mystery, what's wrong with showing the truth about breast feeding?

"But if everyone you knows ffs, you think you'll ff - what help will you need to get started?" err, if your mum is saying "I was told to do it this way" and your aunt is saying "no I was told that's wrong and it's okay to do it that way" and your sister is saying "well when I had mine I did X and they're all fine"... do you get the picture?

Good point, it was probably my own sensitivity! It's sad, isn't it, the culture of judgey-pants that makes us feel that we're being watched! Just live on my planet where we co-exist peacefully and support each other (fluffy-bunny-emoticon)

sounds nice, but according to TruthSweet it wouldn't be fair on either camp to impose ourselves on each other, we'ld all end up too upset

Monkeymoma - I agree, FFers do need some help/advice. I was blissfully unaware that you could no longer make up bottles of milk the night before, only found out recently that it changed somewhere between 2003 and 2008! Just as well DD3 was BF in the end, I'd have been crap at making up bottles!

Sorry, was agreeing to post before! Now getting confusing!!

Even though I did BF DD3, I have a close-ish friend who is a BF counsellor and I must admit she is incredibly hard-line about it. I felt uncomfortable even though I was doing the "right" thing, I think that counsellors should support and encourage BF rather than "dissing" FF. (You should have seen the cats-bum-mouth when my DD was in a formula advert, you'd think I'd sold her sould to the devil!)

and I thought FF babies needed bottles of water in the summer till today (everyone I knew who FF seemed to give them!)..
and still not clear on how to make up bottles when out and about..

They don't? I thought they did! And I can't remember whether you can or can't store hot water to make bottles up when out - perhaps the confusion is just to make everyone buy cartons!

but luckily I do now know how to introduce mix feeding rather than just doing a straight switch, a few years too late for DS but will maybe write that reply down for no.2

Housemum, you shouldn't store boiled water to mix when out because water needs to be very hot, at least 70 degrees when mixed with powder so it can kill the bacteria that's in the powder. What you could do is boil water, cool and take it with you in a thermos and once at your destination ask for freshly boiled water that you mix with the formula in half the quantity needed. Then you top the mix with the cooled boiled water and you have formula that's warm but not boiling hot.