^^Extraordinary breastfeeding - tonight on C4 ^^

[harpsichordcarrier]

new thread for RTKM

i told my gp i was worried about my supply when my ds was 4 months old, 13 months ago. She said 'well, you've breastfed for quite long enough, you should stop now, its your body's way of telling you to.' Thankfully i was able to speak to a LLL volunteer who gave me the right advice so i'm still breastfeeding now.

I have heard or read that the nutritional qualities of the milk or something changes as your baby gets older, according to the baby's needs. If that's true, don't understand how that works, if you're feeding both a baby and a toddler? Also - do you still produce colostrum after having a second baby if you are still feeding your toddler?

One of my HVs at the drop in clinic said "well done" when i was still exclusively bf at a year, funnily enough in actual fact I was in the process of trying to wean dd and was feeling more like a failure for not managing it as quick as i had wanted. (I had aimed to fully wean by a year). I wonder why my "failed" feeling had been indoctrinated from?

i have heard that the amount of fat in the bm decreases as the child gets older - again, don't know if that's true. I am hoping to keep feeding ds if we have another baby so interested to know.

harpsi - I am always amazed about GP's and their lack of knowledge re. bm and bf.

I told mine that I was going to put some bm on my son's torso (he had a very strange looking rash on it for about 2 weeks). GP didn't know what it was and said come back next week. By next week it had gone, probably because I HAD put bm on it. Worse still DH's friend (a well-know surgeon) thought I was barmy when I said I had put bm on my son's rash and it had gone .

Don't they know about the evidence that bm kills cancer cells ?

I think apart from the image of the extended breastfeeder being a lentil-munching hippy, doctors must think we also practice voodoo

Interesting point about your "failed" feeling Bournville. A lot of people think that b/f is a PITA and that the mum would really prefer not to have this extra "demand". My in-laws have been making these sorts of comments since ds was about 6 months.

ruty - kellymom.com as usual has excellent info. on the composition of bm.

Past year 1, breastmilk fat content actually increases (or rather the fat content % increases) in order to nurish a more physically active, walking toddler.

Very little research has been done on composition of bm past year 2, so I am not sure what happens after 2 years. But like everyone has said, it seems impossible that it loses the good stuff altogther, esp. if we are to believe that the natural weaning age of humans is anything between 5.5 - 7 years.

ruty - from the info. I have got at my LLL meetings, if you decide to tandem feed, your milk will be excellent for the newborn and still very good for your older child.

Here's the study that looked at the fat content of milk after a year:

click here

It is preposterous to assert there is no nutritional value in it - lolling at the GP who confidently stated this when the same milk was being used for the 3-month-old as well.

I haven't read the whole paper, but I expect the milk is creamier because the volume of milk made has reduced - and as we know, fat content is related to the volume of milk in the breasts at any one time, so relatively empty breasts (typical of the bf toddler who is not taking the same volume of milk as a baby, though who may feed frequently, even so) will have creamier milk, and relatively full breasts will have less creamy milk. The milk that's for the 3-mth-old and the toddler will be, however, baby's milk, and perfectly nourishing, but proportionately less creamy.

hi tiktok
I am doing my best to educate all the HCPs in my acquaintance about tandem feeding - the level of ignorance is SHOCKING.
btw the three month old is putting on weight at a cracking rate, is already filling out 3-6 month clothes.

Good for you, harpsi.

this is a new leaflet in NCT's catalogue which explains normal nappies, which may well help midwives and mothers.

thanks nanneh and titok -perhaps someone should publish a leaflet named 'Ten Breastfeeding Myths Busted' for distribution in health surgeries!I have also been told that the immune boosting properties of breast milk do not work after the child is over one year old. ????

God that is so idiotic harpsichordcarrier! Maybe you've got clever breasts and they know which child is feeding and just produce water when the older one is feeding

Immunity is something that takes several years to develop (about 7 years) and is a gradual process. Breastmilk can play a vital role in this and again its rubbish to say that once a child reaches a certain age properties in b/milk 'stop working'... it's just that as the baby gets older it is able to protect itself against infection better than a newborn.

I found this which discusses immunity but doesn't discuss older babies:

Immaturity of the neonatal immune system predisposes the infant to development of infections during the first year of life. Infants who are breastfed have been shown to have a lower incidence of certain infectious diseases when compared with formula-fed infants.1-3 Human milk contains factors that have the potential to protect infants from infection and disease caused by many pathogens. Some of these putative protective factors in human milk include pathogen-specific IgA,4-11 oligosaccharides,6,12 glycolipid,13 and mucin.14 An association has been established between the presence of these compounds and either broad-based protection or specific protection.4-14

Several studies have reported that human milk enhances development of the immune system in breastfed infants compared with formula-fed infants.15-21 Reports of enhanced humoral response include increased serum antibody titers to Haemophilus influenzae type b polysaccharide (Hib),16 oral polio virus (OPV),17 and diphtheria toxoid (DIP).17 In addition, secretory IgA concentrations, both total and subclass IgA2, increased more rapidly in breastfed infants.20 Modulation of immune response to an infectious agent or vaccine antigen by specific components of human milk is of potential benefit to breastfed infants, and may benefit infants who receive formula containing these components.

Nucleotides are one of the components of human milk that have been identified as affecting immune function. In animal models, nucleotides have been shown to increase mortality because of graft-versus-host disease;22 increase rejection of allogenic grafts, and improve delayed cutaneous hypersensitivity and alloantigen-induced lymphoproliferation;23 reverse malnutrition and starvation-induced immunosuppression;24,25 aid resistance to challenge with Staphylococcus aureus26 and Candida albicans27; and enhance T-cell maturation and function.28-32 Animal studies also have demonstrated that nucleotides have stimulatory effects on gastrointestinal tract growth and maturation,33,34 intestinal repair after diarrhea,35 hepatic growth,34 and recovery from hepatectomy.36 Beneficial effects of nucleotides on immune response have been demonstrated in clinical studies of infants, including increased natural killer (NK) activity18 and decreased incidence of diarrhea.37

The nucleotide content of human milk is higher and qualitatively different from that of bovine milk or cow milk protein-based infant formula.38,39 The presence of nucleotides in human milk and reports of nucleotide enhancement of immune function led to the present study to determine if infants fed human milk, or control formula fortified with nucleotides, showed evidence of enhanced response to vaccine antigens as a measure of immunity.40

Full page at Modulation of the Immune System by Human Milk and Infant Formula Containing Nucleotides

sorry im think couldnt understand a word of that last post can some explain to me in english what u&e s are IgG IgA IgM and IgE with subclasses of the IgG and a salivary IgA are? your post goes on about them and my dd has to go into hospital to have all of these tested

They're antibodies. Explained slightly here

Not sure whether to ressurect this thread or start a new one...

My mum doesnt sleep very well and was listening to talk radio at 4am this morning when there was a phone in about breast feeding....afew choice comments. Bear in mind these are my interpretations of second hand info

a) women should wear a cape so that if they need to breast feed in public they can shield themselves
b) women who breast feed in public are exhibitionists and secretly harbour desires to be on page 3.

and my favourite
c) women who breast feed should be more organised so that they can get themselves home in time to do it away from the general public

off now to see if the discussion is online......

lol. i love those talk radio progs some of the ppl who phone in are hilariouS!

Coming really late to this discussion - just seen a link, on another site, to this article by Veronika , the mum of the 7 year old.

All sounds very reasonable to me (except perhaps the last bit about the human race dying out(!)). In the past I may have been slightly bemused to see someone breastfeeding a child (as opposed to baby/toddler) - but no longer, since watching the programme. And I will probably feed my lastborn for longer than I fed my other babies (9-10 months) as a result.