^^Extraordinary breastfeeding - tonight on C4 ^^

[harpsichordcarrier]

new thread for RTKM

sorry - bit flippant and badly typed but hey typing one handed

I assume you do your tesco shop topless in warm weather then Popsy, if breasts are just like fingers?
I don't see what willies have to do with it. People are happy that breasts have two functions, but they are extremely dubious about the inappropriate application of one of those functions.

I would like to say that I think there is a difference between breastfeeding in public and girls walking around with low-cut tops etc, even topless pictures etc. The difference is, the boob is being sucked on. Even though you can't actually see much if anything, it's what's in the imagination that makes people uncomfortable. I don't think we can blame particularly men for being uncomfortable with that, it is not their fault that the breasts are mainly for them a sexual thing. Don't get me wrong, I breastfed in public and in front of family & friends (including male friends) and have no problem with it myself, but, I do think sometimes perhaps we're a little harsh about how other people feel about it? I think I said earlier on that I didn't breastfeed in public if boyf was out with me cos he would've been very uncomfortable about it (not that he's anti bf in public, he just would've felt self-conscious being wtih me if I was). I had to respect that feeling. FWIW, we never actually talked directly about it, I basically didn't even consider doing it because I knew instinctively how he would feel. we only went to places where I knew there was a private place I could go to.

Just re-read this before posting. Now it sounds like I'm saying we shouldn't breastfeed in public at all for fear of making people feel uncomfortable. I'm not, that is their problem not ours, but I am saying we should try and understand why they feel that way, not just dismiss it as ignorant or whatever. I respected my boyf's feelings because he was my boyf - i didn't give a sh*t about anyone else in the public!

um bundy, i would have thought the bigger problem was putting the children's needs before the parents? - in the case of the twins anyway. And the 8 year old was clearly a spoilt brat which presumably means she was over-pampered too.

Laura, re breast = comfort - i did the same (distracting with other things) when weaning dd off the breast (i did it gradually, over about 4 months) so I see what you're saying, i agree, it took a long time for dd to learn to amuse herself and comfort herself etc. She is too good at it now, hence me able to come on here

NannyD - i was talking only about babies re bf being for comfort too, agree in toddlerhood it shouldn't be like that and obviously, going by posts here, generally isn't. Interesting enough, I wonder how many mothers know that breastfeeding doesn't have to continue to just be on demand? I think I always had in my head that it was, and I suppose weaned dd off when I did because I didn't think there was a middle ground. If that makes sense.

Gizmo - so agree re adults comfort eating!

trice - hands off stepdad hubby? (of twins) I didn't get that impression, sounded to me like he was desperate to be involved but couldn't be cos they were constantly attached to her boobs! He seemed very happy when they were weaned that they sometimes came to him for a hug! Even my boyf who isn't dd's dad used to get frustrated when dd was very little because she would just scream when he tried to bond with her.

i didnt mention fingrers.....
the mens bits i was mentioning as i think the whole uncomfortableneess with feeding in public is tht people cant separate the functions..am getting of topic i guess

I just had another thought. I hate that men pee in public places, I just really hate it. In London they have put up a few very public urinals. It just makes me feel very uncomfortable - at least when men are peeing in public places they find somewhere to hide. boyf said he wouldn't pee in the official urinals anyway, would feel highly uncomfortable with ppl queueing behind hiM! (He does pee in a hidden place after a night's drinking though !

discuss. is this discomfort i feel any different from that that people feel when coming across a b'feeding women?

ps the irony is there's this hoo-ha about bfeeding in public yet public urinals are going up in london! huh.

I just didn't think her children had a very natural relationship with her breasts. My DD is 7 and has started to see the difference between her own childish body and my grown-up body. I think she thinks my body is a bit freakish and I remember wondering if I would ever have to look like my mum when I was little. I think it's normal stage for children to distance themselves from the adult body and then later go through puberty alone. It's nothing sexual about it, and both me and DH are naked around the children, but I still think it's not normal that 7 year-old girls have an almost religious relationship with their mum's breasts. My DD sits on my lap for cuddles too. You don't have to breastfeed to be close to your child.

I've just popped over to another board where I post occasionally and I have to say the majoroty seemd to be talking about "wierdos" and saying how the program "made me feel sick". So whilst it didn't strike me as the freakshow I'd feared, I guess it won't have done much to help other people see bf-ing as being something "normal".
Whilst it was "unusual" to me that the granny let the baby suckle, I didn't see anything wrong. Better that than a dummy IMO, given that the mother definitely wanted to bf. How many women who wanted to bf have given up because their baby was given a bottle or a dummy too early?
And, hunkermunker, I've often wondered about the finger thing. Would as many people still choose formula if you could feed through your finger instead?

Well, I sometimes wipe my four year old son's dual-function willy as a natural part of caring for him, but I wouldn't exactly be surprised if people were pretty appalled if I was still wiping my (otherwise normal and healthy) eight year old's willy.

popsy, sorry, thinking aloud... so does my discomfort mean that I am not separating the two functions of the penis? or is it because I (quite logically i think) have a deep mistrust of a male stranger esp of a dark night?
that of course makes it entirely different to the discomfort surrounding b'feeding.

Bourneville, it's because man wee stinks. Breastmilk doesn't

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I think it's because public unrination is disgusting, smelly and antisocial, personally!

(.) (.)

oh god - i am not gettng my pont across
i think the 8 year old breast feeding is bananas....

what i was referring to is feeding in public and maybe that this is why people feel uncomfortable
i feel uncomfortable seeing men wee inthe street but not seeing someone breastfeed a baby or toddler

think we are at crossed purposes

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re the gran b'feeding, I actually thought it extraordinary that the mother trusted her mother enough to let her do that. When dd was about 3-4 weeks old I expressed some milk to put in a bottle so my mum could feed her, I wanted to see that dd could use a bottle in case she ever needed to. I cried my eyes out (ok, partly due to baby blues) cos I just couldn't bear that someone else was feeding my baby, even if it was with my breast milk and a bottle! (fyi i never did it again, but because expressing was next to impossible for me!)

don't understand how the baby could have survived on granny's breast though, presumably no milk would have been available to her that quickly from her, surely she must have got something else for nutrition?

and my analogy was crap

I think that really should have been four programs:

1. Demand-fed 2 year old twins with badly-executed and stressful weaning;
2. Unorthodox family situation with extreme beliefs in child-led weaning (and at the end of day, WASN'T even child-led because the girl still wanted to feed);
3. Adoption and breastfeeding;
4. Peer-support breastfeeding groups.

Putting it all together was very CONFUSING. It also gave a very unbalanced view of extended breastfeeding which in most people's experience is a lovely and PRIVATE relationship which gradually tailored off over time. I'm sure the majority of extended bfers (I was one) simply had a morning and night feed and it's all very lovely.

It definitely gave the wrong impression of extended feeding being full of problems and stress.

I have to say I went to a breastfeeding support group today and as I walked in I found myself thinking "God I really hope no one is seeing me walk in here and wondering whether my I feed my husband!"

cod peed in the street twice?

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OK - its a bit long ...

Hello ? I didn?t see your show this morning but I believe you discussed the Extraordinary Breastfeeding programme that was aired on Channel 4 last night. I heard some of the comments made on your show from another person.

Before I discuss this I?d like to point out that a 10 year old was not breastfed as is highlighted on your web-page. It was a 7 year old who stopped shortly after her 8th birthday (the 10 year old was her sister who had stopped at age 5). Also the WHO guidelines you state on your page are not correctly quoted. The WHO recommends ?exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is the optimal way of feeding infants. Thereafter infants should receive complementary foods with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond.? (Sorry if I am being picky but people do focus on these things). To return to your show:

One of your panellists said that breast milk has no nutritional value after the age of 18 months. Sorry but this is total b*llocks. Is this person a scientist? Breast milk doesn?t suddenly change in substance. As Dr Kathy Dettwyler, the anthropologist states:

?evidence suggesting that the "natural" age at weaning in modern humans would be between 2.5 and 7.0 years, if we didn't have various cultural beliefs about how long it should be. I looked at lots of different data, and the absolute minimum age was 2.5 years. All of the studies done to date on the health benefits of breastfeeding show continued health benefits and IQ increases up to 2 years of age. Beyond two years of age? There haven't been any studies yet. But it is hard to imagine that all the good nutritional benefits, immunological benefits, and long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids thought to be responsible for the IQ boosts would suddenly disappear the day after the child's second birthday!

?breast milk is a complete and well-balanced food, much better for human infants than cows' milk, which can trigger allergies or cause digestive problems, and that you would rather have him drink your milk than cows' milk, or apple juice, or Coke or Kool-Aid. When I hear about doctors telling moms to wean so the baby will eat more solid food, I always want to ask them (the docs) what foods they had in mind as being nutritionally and immunologically superior to breast milk -- I mean, are we talking about hot-dogs here??

See full page at www.kathydettwyler.org/dettoddler.html

I think this point is important to clarify particularly in an age where we have concerns over our children?s unhealthy diet and rising levels of obesity. I am not suggesting that we pack cartons of expressed breast milk in our children?s lunchboxes (but hey why not!?) but if people want to breastfeed their children in the comfort of their own homes then its not going to harm anyone. Many women may consider breastfeeding a baby for longer and it?s important for them to know that their milk is not ?worthless? and that they are not wasting their time.

The whole issue of breastfeeding is extremely important ? it?s the very first food that we receive and plays a vital role in determining our health throughout our lives ? and yet it receives very little airtime on television except for this rather, one-off extreme show last night. Breastfeeding an eight year old is unusual and a rare case but this was deemed worthy of investigation (typical of Channel 4 to pick on the bizarre and unusual). However there is no reason why breastfeeding two year olds could become more common. This won?t happen unless people know more about breastfeeding toddlers and see it as normal (rather than ?freaky?) and when it becomes more acceptable in public places.

yes, yes i see all that, weeing in the street is disgusting and unhygienic but I hate these official urinals they've put up too - I don't mean a building with urinals in, I mean urinals in a public place for all to see !(again ,you don't see much but you know what's in their hands..)

Thats not unhygienic or disgusting, it's a natural human function, separate from any sexual act (well, for most people!) but it makes me feel uncomfortable. And they're obviously trying to solve the problem of weeing on the street. But maybe i'm taking this analogy too far too, my discomfort is to do with feeling threatened by strange men with their bits exposed and at the ready whereas a woman breastfeeding a baby poses no threat....

oh dear think i'd better end this. it's all gone wrong! i've answered my own question anyway...

sorry hunkermunker - misunderstood I was referring to the bit at the beginning of the c4 programme. Sorry - thread so long it's difficult to keep up

really wanted to see this but missed it
agree on bf in public
but an 8yo hanging off their mams bin lids is too much for me