^^Extraordinary breastfeeding - tonight on C4 ^^

[harpsichordcarrier]

new thread for RTKM

... not if you are on holiday and your baby is 1,000 miles away!

I have expressed on the ski slopes and in a mountain restaurant when the conditions were too bad outside. Don't think anyone even realsied what i was doing, thanks to a large ski jacket.

I just gave dd a feed while I was dropping ds off at pre school. One of the helpers asked me if I wanted to go and do it in the loo! Well we wouldn't want three year olds to see a boob would we?

I thought the program was much more positive and less sensationalist than expected. I was rather ashamed of the people of Blackburn for their blinkered and negative views.

I was a lot less shocked about the 8 year old feeding than I thought I would be. I won't be doing it myself though.

My ds has baby bottle mouth from breastfeeding at night until 2 but the dentist says that this is more to do with the quality of his tooth enamel than the sweetness of my milk.

I enjoyed the 50% I saw of this (thanks to a friend who rang half way through ) and, because it was obvious that the children were largely feeding for comfort, it got me thinking about comfort for children and adults.

For my very small child, nothing was more de-stressing than being close to mummy and being fed. Now he's a bit older (4) being close to mummy, a kiss and a cuddle, is all he needs. I wouldn't want to feed him because I have a strong need for space for myself and on demand comfort feeding would just conflict with that too strongly. Plainly, though, the ladies on this programme have no such issues and I thought they all sounded very loving and good mothers (if a little...eccentric....in the case of Cumbrian mum).

So what's the difference between a kiss and cuddle and extended breastfeeding? Food. And what do a lot of adults with food issues say?

'I eat for comfort.'

Obviously most adults with food issues have not been brought up with extended breastfeeding, but I can't help wondering if creating such a strong association between food and comfort (or, maybe, not teaching alternative ways for kids to comfort themselves) might be predisposing kids to always look to food to satisfy emotional needs?

What do people think?

Message withdrawn

ahhhh I see, sorry.

I loved the 2 year old twins and that family, the husband seemed lovely. And how they tried to wean them early and it didn't work and how they 'knew' it was right this time.

I fed for 6 months with dd1 and about 5 with dd2 and that was enough for me, so it was interesting to see the other side of the coin as it were.

I think you can only judge the twins mum if you have four kids including young twins and a rather hands off stepdad husband. If you can comfort your toddler quickly and lovingly with a boob - then why not? Cheaper than a dummy and less likely to fall on the floor.

Really interesting programme & has made me feel much more comfortable about the idea of extended breast-feeding - so there you go it has changed or at least altered someone's opinion!
I thought the Little Angels organisation were very impressive and I am in complete agreement that women should feel comfortable breastfeeding a baby wherever necessary.
I thought an 8 year old girl breastfeeding was most "extraordinary" and I'll be absolutely honest I felt very uncomfortable with, perhaps because of the unusualness of it, but also because I felt that I would feel equally uncomfortable seeing a child of that age sucking a dummy or sucking milk through a teat of a bottle.
I liked the Spanish woman but felt she was trying to breastfeed the adopted her child to fulfill a need in herself, rather than that of the child.
I felt very sorry for the lady with the twins, who just seemed to be constantly feeding two children. No life of her own, no time for the other two children, not time for her husband - just constant demand feeding. However, that is a different issue.

Mentioned the police officer who stopped the woman breast feeding on a park bench to dh. He immediately said that he should have been the one that was prosecuted!

I was pleased that the programme was not as bad as I thought it would be but unfortunately at the school gates this morning,

'did you see that breastfeeding show it's just disgusting?'
'I think it is sick to Brestfeed past a year old'
'it just turned my stomach'
'people should not breastfeed in public it makes people uncomfortable'
This from 3 mothers of 6 year old kids, who had tryed breastfeeding and stopped after a few days themselves, as 'other babies in the ward slept and were calmer', 'and got taken away by the midwives so I could sleep'
So I think ultimately the programme will have put many off it and hardened attitudes towards it.

JennyLee

How can that be a surprise to anyone though? I knew as soon as I saw this prog was on that it would have this effect. Makes me sick. I think Channel 4 have a LOT to answer for.
Not impressed with freaky-woman either.
It makes it much harder for the rest of us.

Agree Aloha.

I that, because it was milder than I had been expecting, my reaction was that, in general, it was pretty 'fair' (barring of course barking mad lady and bratlets)

Didn't see this Programme but did read about it. Can't imagine how any sane woman would want to do this to an 8 year old. The personal space issue and constant demands would be enough to out me off.

I know it is so awful really, I never felt more happy with myself and proud of myself than when I had my baby and fed him myself for almost a year(he started biting)so to think that is how other people see it makes me sad and angry, I mean we are not doing anything unnatural! at all, And then I felt sheepish and like I was not free to say No hang on a minute I did all these things and It is not disgusting, because I was the only person who had done it.

I have a cousin who had a bottle till she was 8 years old and then my Mom chucked when she visited us, it is just a comfort thing but not good for the child makes them into and infant and subject to ridicule, I think that is why it is odd for the 8 year old girl to breastfeed as they should not need to they should feel secure already

I agree, Aloha.

Saw The Wright Stuff this morning (while bfeeding) and the amount of utter shit they talked on there was unbelievable. One of the guests (can't remember her name) said human milk has no nutritional benefit after 18 months or so, the children aren't getting anything out of it, that it's just a clear fluid and was just like giving the child a dummy to shut them up.

And she'd breastfed.

Janet Ellis said it was private and she'd only done it in public when she absolutely had to.

Dave Gorman said his mum had told him once children got teeth that was the time to stop.

A tiny mention that the WHO recommend bfeeding until two (no mention of "at least"), but said with sneering raised eyebrows.

I think the 8-year-old has put a lot of people off. As has the forced weaning of the twins. And the forced bfeeding attempts of the adoptive mum.

It will be seen as a freak show by women who haven't bfed or haven't bfed for long, and that's really sad.

saw bits of it. Started really well with some stats on the awful UK BF rates. I felt it then sadly degenerated into a freakshow.

I'm amazed that these mums don't set boundries for BFing a toddler. In a supermarket FFS?

I personally feel this programme will put people off BFing beyond 6 months. I'm quite angry about that

emkana - you made a very good point about demand feeding. I think a child under 1 does need demand feeding, but not a child over 1. In fact I found it odd that the mother of the twins breastfed two toddlers at 2.5 years old so frequently, day and night.

It is really not necessary and most toddlers that age are too distracted to breastfeed that often. Mine at 19 months only has 5 - 6 feeds during the day and when we are out of the house he doesn't ever ask for a feed.

I hope the programme didn't give the impression that all breastfed toddlers are that dependant on frequent feeds.

The other thing is I found the cold turkey method of weaning the twins rather upsetting. Weaning can happen gardually, cutting one feed at a time.

i've fed 3 babies and i think if i'd seen that program first would have been put off for life. it made me feel very relieved to be no longer breastfeeding. just can't take the "it's natural" argument that far.

Sorry Aloha but you really cannnot blame C4 for the reaction of those mothers. MANY MANY people feel like this and to deny this is sticking your head in the sand. If this were not true we would have much more breastfeeding in this country. I know that more support in the early day is really important but unless we challenge public opinion on this as well as improve early support for mothers we will get nowhere.

This programme on it's own is not likely to convert those women at the gate but I think that any programme about breastfeeding after 6 months or even just about breastfeeding would get this reaction from these people.

I think the programme was pretty fair and I was delighted that it gave lots of good info about breadtfeeding regardless of whether it is considered 'extended' or not.

My main problem with it was with the women demand feeding 2 yr old twins. While I liked the whole family, I do feel this story should have been presented alongside one of a more limited approach to bfeeding a toddler. This idea of constant demands for 2 years followed by a traumatic (albeit short) weaning may have put some women off breastfeeding for too long. As she was being presented as the more 'normal' side of extended breastfeeding I think this was not ideal.

I have to say the 8 year old breastfeeding bothered me less than I thought it would. It was quite obvious the family was a bit odd and anyone watching it would know that. I didn't know the bit about losing the ability to suck though(assuming that was right - it may not have been) - quite interesting.

The adoption woman - I really don't think she was forcing anything. she wanted to try bfing the toddler and seemed to me to stop pretty quickly as soon as the toddler seemed uninterested. I do think the obsession with getting a tiny bit of breast milk into her was a bit strange. If that was what she wanted, expressing 1-2 bottles a day with a pump which she could have given the toddler would have done this

Overall the programme did show some quite unusual behaviour for the UK anyway. This is something a TV programme is always going to do but alongside this it gave good information about breastfeeding that I for one have never seen on TV at prime time before.

The Angels women were fab and I'm absolutely thrilled that they got some prime air time. They came across really well and for that alone I think C4 did a good job.

Haven't read all the posts, I planned and still do plan on feeding my child for as long as I am comfortable with (providing I don't have any problems preventing me from doing so) I also plan to feed my baby in a public place if needs must, i.epark bench/cafe etc. So the programme did not put me off but what I did find very worrying is how much the older children were completely obsessed by breasts. I know the programme is edited but for that 8 year old to still want to suckle even though she wasn't receiving milk IMO is plain wrong. I didn't see it as a comfort thing more of a spoilt brat thing to be honest - she just wanted to make a point that her mums breasts belonged to her! She made me very cross.

I also enjoyed the programme as I think it showed that there are many aspects to breastfeeding and that it can be rewarding/loving/comforting but also difficult/demanding/draining. What this shows is that breastfeeding in itself is not right or wrong but how the relationship between mother/child (and other family members) works. The dynamics of breastfeeding can be rewarding but children can be demanding about it just the same way as they can be demanding about any aspect of their upbringing. So a mother needs to be more firm about it and it doesn't make the breastfeeding itself wrong, rather how it is managed. Once my kids turned about 2.5 I restricted breastfeeding to bedtimes/mornings only. They've been quite happy with that.

People tend to be terribly oversimplistic and black and white about breastfeeding for some reason - either it is right or wrong, I hope the programme showed that there are many shades of grey.

I thought the family with the two girls were quite eccentric but there are plenty people out there much more eccentric than that. Also the feeding the husband thing was jokey and I am sure that plenty of men have actually done this anyway.

The losing the sucking reflex is true - I noticed this with my son - in the last year of his breastfeeding ie between age 5-6 he didn't suck the same way as before. It could have been due to the infrequency as he was only doing it a few times a month. However he was starting to notice towards the end and I felt that this would upset him and fortunately he stopped completely before it became an issue. I felt the 8 year old was over-indulged and could have stopped sooner. Even so she stopped not long past 8. It's still miles away from an adult so 'bitty' references are totally meaningless.

It's ironic that men find women breastfeeding offensive but are happy to look at women in short skirts and low tops. I think they are just afraid of the whole thing and feel left out. I'd love to see more groups of women breastfeeding toddlers in public like the Little Angels group.

The whole programme could easily be stretched to a whole series looking at different aspects of breastfeeding - there is loads of stuff there to be discussed - people's attitudes, their decision to breastfeed (or not), what support and education they receive, actually showing how to breastfeed, common problems and solutions, breastfeeding a toddler and beyond, benefits to the mother, difficulties the mother may face, how it affects other family members (husband/partner and other siblings) how to wean..... and so on...

Hunkermunker

You must have watched a different programme to me. They certainly did not mention the WHO guideline in a snide way. It was presented completely normally and said in a very warm and positive way that made the voiceover sound very pro-breastfeeding. I have no idea how you got that impression.

I was very glad to see that the program didn't turn out to be the freakshow I had feared.
Had a good giggle at the peddy-fiddlier bloke. What a t*sser!
Wasn't so sure about Dolores trying to bf her adopted daughter although I'm sure she had the best of motives. It was more that the little girl already had enough strange things (e.g. new family, speaking a language she wouldn't understand etc) going on in her life without someone trying to bf her which (I would hazard a guess) the little girl would probably never even have seen before in her life.
Sorry, but in my opinion, the 7 year old was too old. I accept the idea that you should try to let a baby/toddler/child choose when they're ready to be weaned - but only up to a point. It seemed to me that the mother wanted to stop bf-ing, but was worried it might damage her dd in some ways.
As for the mother of twins - how did she last with two of them for two years feeding 20 times per day??? Neither of mine fed that much even as newborns. If she loved bf-ing so much, I'm sure she could have cut down gradually until they were only having 1 or 2 bfs per day but each to their own, I suppose. Still, respect to her for bf-ing whilst baking a cake. I can only bf sitting down, ideally with a cushion... I think I'm doing well to combine it with reading to dd1 or using the PC.
I think it was meant to be supportive of bf-ing, but I doubt it will have converted many to the idea. What will remain in the popular imagination, I should think, is the 8 yearold girl (grow up, fgs!) and the mother of twins with floppy boobs fully exposed...

well i watched about 15 minutes of it and thought it was awful. i was actually hoping it would change my mind a bit about not wanting to breastfeed, but sadly it put me off even more.