Breastfeeding myths overheard in hospital

[hunkermunker]

Woman in the bed next to me was bottlefeeding because she "couldn't be arsed to breastfeed, and they're more settled on a bottle, innit". Er, yours wasn't, love - he cried, you snored through it. And as for the method of getting your newborn baby to take a bottle that your partner had discovered... Heard her telling her mum and dad as if it was hilarious that her DP had said "Finish the fucking bottle, then" and he'd drunk it

Woman in bed opposite me was told to "put the baby to the breast and leave him there as long as it took. It might be two hours. Just let him suck". Well, OK, but might've been nice to actually show her what to do, as she had no idea. Baby had a bottle in his mouth the next morning

Woman who was in the bed after woman opposite left said, "My milk isn't in yet, so I've been giving him bottles until it is". Instead of being told, "Just let him feed, you have colostrum, which is all he needs, your milk will be in soon, I'll help you if you need it" she was asked which formula she wanted

And today I've been told to only offer one breast at each feed and since I had DS2, they've asked me how often he's feeding - am I trying to get him to go three-hourly? Er, no, he's had low blood sugar. Nobody has mentioned feeding on demand to establish supply.

Am and and

I am not against mothers coming to classes - I know plenty of bfcs who have them and love them. It's just the way I work. I have found them very hard work!! It is absolutely no good saying 'well, a mother came to the class I did and it was wonderful/inspiring/helpful.....' This is obviously true, for some, but not all. The bf counsellor's responsibility is to the whole class, and I worry that for every mother she inspires, there might be one who is misled.

If you read my post pruni, you will see that one of the drawbacks I see reflects your comment - that people need to be informed it can be hard. The mother sitting there doing it easily and relaxedly, who has had no problems with it at all, is not a good emblem for most. Sit her next to someone who has had problems for balance? No....because problems are not the same for everyone, and it is far too dogmatic to say it takes '4/6/8/10/12 weeks to get established' . People's tolerance for problems varies, as do their motivation levels.

It's just I am not prepared for the inevitable role model status that comes with seeing breastfeeding mothers in the class. I think it's misleading. But these views are not shared by everyone - fair enough

Meandmyboy - of course you should not have been made to feel embarrassed or criticised in asking about bottles. But I hope you will bring this up with NCT - the teacher needs to know she had this effect. I repeat - the breastfeeding class is not designed, or promoted, or marketed, as a class to help you decide whether bottle feeding or breastfeeding is 'right' for you. It's to teach you about breastfeeding and prepare you for it. This is 'what it says on the tin'.

I actually say this (more or less) at the beginning of every class I do, and I hand out an outline of the session before I do it. I still get comments (very occasionally) that a particular class member wanted to know more about how to decide between feeding methods. I can't help, at least not in the class. This is not the aim of the session.

sorry - I meant prettybird, not pruni.

We'll just have to agree to disagree Tiktok!

I had dd in the Princess Royal in Glasgow and had fantastic support. I learned more about breastfeeding in a day and a half's stay there than in the 5 days I'd been in grotty Watford General after ds was born.

The m/w's were all very knowledgable and helpful and I was visited by 3 different b/f counsellors who were available on the wards if necessary.

What did disappoint me was that despite all this advice, support and willingness to bend over backwards on the part of the staff, in a room of 4 mums who all gave b/f a go, I was the only one to be still b/f 24 hours later.

The reason was the families who visited shortly after the birth. Without exception, each family member whether boyfriend, husband, parent - they all either asked for "a shot" of feeding or told the new mums that is wasn't worth the hassle and to ask for a bottle.

One young girl protested to her boyfriend saying it would get better, but he just snorted, swore and said "what's the f-ing point when a bottle's so much easier?" She stopped the next m/w and got a bottle.

Scotland is about 20 years behind the rest of the UK in terms of health in all areas. AFAIK the breastfeeding stats for the Princess Royal are among the best in the west of Scotland - about 20% of mums leave breastfeeding.

If that's with a UNICEF award and fantastic staff - what hope is there when the families come in and undo all the good work??

Tiktoc the teacher had asked what we wanted to cover in the class - all I did was simply ask if she would be covering any aspect of bottle feeding. I hadn't read the tin before going to the class. I was simply going because they were the only antenatel class in the area. My mistake I know.

No point complaining! We were the last class she taught, she retired after we finished.

tiktok - I totally agree about your point about classes. I struggled like mad with DD1. Had a very enthusiastic team of mws who were almost manic in their determination to make sure all mums bf. In principle, this was great. However, their approach - very set in their ways, making out that it was "easy" if you "do it right" and that the pain element is your fault for getting it wrong and not that painful really (yeah - right!). I attended some of their classes and was left feeling even more isolated than if I had tried quietly on my own. Sitting in a room surrounded by other mums feeding away talking about positions, differing opinions, all telling me exactly where I was going wrong was pure hell. I felt a total failure. I would sit there humiliated as different mws would grab at my boobs and push the baby into me, pulling on their jaw, pulling on me. Other women smilingly encouragingly at me, watching - while i am desperately trying not to cry out of pain/embarrassment and sheer frustration. I went from a confident person who was happily pregnant and looking forward to my baby, to a nervous wreck who felt violated by all these "well meaning" women on a weekly basis
No wonder I gave up bf - consumed by strong negative emotions of guilt and failure.

I love the cafe idea - as long as those helping are sensitive to the wider issues surrounding bf and understand how we are all different and have different needs.

Interesting what you say about the Princess Royal McMudda. Things must have imporved since I had ds (although to be fair, it might still have been Rottenrow then).

At the time, only the Queen Mum's was Unicef Baby Friendly and I heard horror stories from mums who had had there babies at both the other Glashoe maternity hospitals about the lack of support and the fact that forumla milk was made and ready for you to "pikc" up as necessary - a dreadul temptation if your are struggling. At the Queen Mums, they would only make up formula on request (not actually sure about the porcess as I wasn transferred to a single room when ds got jaundice early on).

I did get on a collegaue's wife's behlaf about something the Pricess Royal did about two years ago when she had twins. He said she had wanted to breast feed but after about two days (they were born at 35 weeks, but were over 5lbs each), when she was struggling a wee bit, a midwife just said to her, "you've done your bit" and encouraged her to formula feed, as she *wasn't gong to be able to feed" such strapping lads for long anyway .

I couldn't say much, as I only had his version of the story, I didn't know his wife and it may be that she was wanting a reason to stop.

The NCt might wnat to consider the following suggestion: at antenatal classes they may wnat to say, well look, here is a BF mother she will talk about her experience of BF, will also demonstrate it for you, and then the NCT should add a disclaimer saying this is the experience of ONE mother, there are other things, involved, etc. and here are the telephone numbers of other BF orgs., nearby Baby Cafes, websites which are excellent (including MN and kellymom.com).

My NCT teacher did not give out any numbers other than those of the local NCT and hospital midwives.

The NCT runs antenatal classes and other BF orgs. like LLL don't. It is very important I think that pregnant mothers who have not yet encountered the problems of BF should have a realistic attitutude to BF. They should also be given as much info. as possible in those antenatal classes.

Personally I think it is vital to have a real mother and a real baby demonstrate BF. Perhaps the mother could be told before hand that she should limit what she says in terms of "advice" as she is not actually there to give advice. The NCT teacher should add the disclaimer that the only reason the mother is there is to demonstrate BF in action, not to give suggestions or advice.

I know this may be easier said than done, but personally the NCT session I had with a plastic doll and the "theory" of how to BF did absolutely nothing for me. As I didn't have any friends or family BF-ing at the time, I would like to have seen a "live" demonstration

No one is blaming the NCT or anyone else for the low rates of BF in this country. I think what we are all trying to suggest are "improvments" to the system, including what goes on at antnatal NCT classes, in the hospital, later once the mother is at home with her baby, etc. Support and accurate info. is required along the ENTIRE chain of pregnancy and birth.

nanneh, all reasonable ideas, and some bfcs do indeed work in that way. Some do other things.

I don't have any live demos for the reasons I outlined, and I am not into inviting someone along and trying to tell them what they shouldn't say when they get there - it would make me feel uncomfortable. Other people might do it just fine. Up to them!

I do use videos in the class, and pictures - that way everyone can get a close up look without any concerns about embarrassing the 'model mother'. I do want them to be aware of the nipple, but I would not ask a mother to let 20 strangers be up close and personally aware of her nipple.

I have no objection to a breastfeeding counsellor giving out as many contacts and sources of support that there are available though I don't think you can expect her to give out numbers of people from organisations unless she is sure the people don't mind (though the helpline numbers should be fine). A bfc should at least tell mothers of any local support groups.

I don't use plastic dolls either, as I think they are unrealistic and unhelpful. But others like them!

Thanks tiktok. As I say, I don' think anyone is having a go at any particular org. just fun and games trying to suggest new ideas !

Oh, the videos of BF sound like a good idea. The reason I decided to go for a water birth was the video shown in my NCT antenatal class. The best decison I ever made based on that video, so I praise the NCT for doing that for me !

I am sure videos are better than plastic dolls too, as the videos have real women and babies in them

I am not one for showing my nipples to 20 strangers, so I understand what you are saying ! My son is now 19 months old, so not exactly a new born and I wouldn't feel comfortable BF-ing him in front of loads of people I have never met.

But would gladly have done it when he was smaller ! In fact I now "demonstrate" for my 11 year old niece in the hope that she will get used to the idea as she was bottle-fed from birth and had never seen a toddler being breastfed before !

nnaneh - I like the picure of you "demonstrating" in front of your neice.

I did the same with ds when he was 13 months old, making a point of breast feeding in front of my cousin and his then girlfriend (although they subsequently broke up - but then got back together and are now engaged ) in the hope that I would be a good example to both of them as to how normal it was if/when they decide to have kids.

PB - I was in the new Princess Royal building - June last year. Couldn't move for Baby Friendly posters!

I was born in Rottenrow though and formula fed from birth - my mum was a "progressive" 70s mum and never even contemplated breastfeeding because it wasn't "modern" and neither did any of her peers.

Colleague's wife was also in the new Princess Royal Building - but not sure if it had the Baby Friendly award then. Glad to hear you got good support!

Dh was also born in Rottenrow - although it was 59, I think his mum formual fed him, although he does say he thinksthere was real reason why she didn't feed her 5 kids herslef (it's not the sort of subject I would raise with her).

However, the sad thing is his sister's automtically formula fed - just didn't have th examples around them.

I have talked to his younger sister about it 9we're good friends) and she says she just didn't even think of breast feeding.

To be fair on my MIL, she was never unsupportive of me breast feeding: she did make a couple fo comments wen he was 6+ months about him being a "lucky lad" which I birstled inwardly at, but she probably wasn't meaning anything neative by it.

Pretty - that's brilliant - keep up the good work !

Of course some relatives will go yuk, but my niece loves smaller children and the first time she saw me BF my son she said, "aaaahhh...how sweet", so I hope it's made a good impression on her {smile] although I think her own mother and my other SIL (neither very pro-BF) would have said yuk !

Brain wash them while they are still young and impressionable, that's what I say

Pretty - that's brilliant - keep up the good work !

Of course some relatives will go yuk, but my niece loves smaller children and the first time she saw me BF my son she said, "aaaahhh...how sweet", so I hope it's made a good impression on her although I think her own mother and my other SIL (neither very pro-BF) would have said yuk !

Brain wash them while they are still young and impressionable, that's what I say

excuse double post - computer went dead !

Can't really keep up the good work - ds is 5 now!

WOuld like another one, who I would mkae a point of breast feeding in front of all and sundry (never bothered me - in fact I got more embarrased giving him EBM in public, as I felt I was re-inforcing the West of Scoltand bottle feeding culture) (I had a short period when every second feed was suppsed to be EBM, to give me confidence that he was getting enough).

However, two miscarriages later and a dh who isn't sure if we should try again.....

Pretty - so sorry about the miscarriages

How about BF-ing your 5 year old for
Ch. 4......just kidding

I'd just like to say that I'm absolutely shocked and appalled at the horrific experiences that some of you have had. I'm currently 25 weeks and am a first timer. I had previously thought that it was just the birth that was going to be awful but now it looks like I might need to prepare myself for afterwards too! My point of view is if you think the worst anything better than that is a bonus! As they say, forewarned is forearmed!

I'm planning to give birth at the John Radcliffe in Oxford. I'm in their Silver Star unit as I've had 6 m/c's in the past. I've also got some other 'technical issues'; I'm epileptic, have placenta anterior, a bicornuate uterus and I've just discovered that I've also got an incompetant placenta! Needless to say, I can't have anything other than a hospital birth, mainly due to my epilepsy.

The good news is that the baby is slightly bigger than average so he can't be suffering too much. I've also had some more good news in that I can breast feed. I had previously been told that I shouldn't by one of the midwifes that I'd seen but my neurologist said 'they don't know what they're talking about' and said it would be fine. Which is great news. Now all I have to do is master b/f'ing! Doddle!!

The Incubator.
God,you sound like you've been through hell...
Brilliant that your pregnancy is progressing this time though!
Why did the m/w say you couldn't b/feed i wonder??

Hi The Incubator. I had my DS at the JR in November and they were, mostly, really supportive. The midwife who delivered DS was absolutely fantastic. I did have a couple of issues with them when they insisted that he had supplementary feeding to reduce his jaundice, but we sorted it out ;-) - glad I was strong though and made sure that he was not given formula (which is what they wanted to do)! Keep cheerful and positive

My experiences of breastfeeding have been like a lot of people's- lack of support. Fed ds only for 3 weeks, when visiting MW said "Oh he's not putting on weight, you really should stop bfeeding" and I, stressed and out and in agony with mastitis gratefully obeyed, which I do regret now.

This led to my determination to feed dd for longer. Had second c-section, and was able to feed her quite soon afterwards, she latched on immediately for 40 minutes, which was promising.

Got to ward, obviously couldn't move much- had no buzzer and couldn't reach dd. Was alone 3 hours after having birth and partner of woman opposite offered to go and get someone for me! Had 3 midwifes in a row, who basically got dd latched on then ran! First one was smirking at me. Second was a student, who ignored me when I mentioned that I thought I might be bleeding just a bit too much. Third actually looked and- sure enough- was having huge pph (which have a history of, so not inconceivable). Ward had me sent back down to delivery suite as quick as they could, who spent the whole night trying to get me sent back!

Had lovely community MW looking after me, but was called out to a homebirth, another MW actually said to me, when I dared to buzz "Oh she's gone out!" Thanks, what shall I do then?? When I buzzed for help with latching on, was told "I can pass her to you, but no time to help feeding", then when I had got stuck in some ridiculous position and obviously couldn't move, got v cross midwife coming in, teling me how busy they were!

Once home, community MW were obsessed with formula feed top ups, as dd had slight and I do mean slight jaundice, and hadn't regained birthweight by 14 days. I gave one bottle of formula a day until she regained birthweight, then ditched it. She insisted on referring me back to hospital, who carried out major blood tests and made dd scream so much she burst the blood vessels in her eye lids (they couldn't get the blood out). After all that, tests came back clear and dd was pronounced fine, as we had known all along!

Am angry now when I think of the effect community MWs had on feeding both children, story could have so easily been same for dd, which was not what I wanted.

tlb
What an utter disgrace.
Very angry for you.
Bloody useless,the lot of them!

Thanks moondog. I'm hoping to have another baby one day, and feel my experiences with dd leave me much better informed.Through MN alone I feel I am much better educated about breastfeeding. Have already been marked out by HVs as a breast feeding activist I am sure, as I am constantly saying to them sweetly that the chart they refer to isn't for bfed babies, as they have looked concerned at her weight. Defensive, moi??

3LB, I took great delight in telling the paediatric registrar who did DD's check that the centile charts were for formula fed babies. She looked surprised & admitted she wasn't aware of it. I feel I've done my bit for medical science.