Never thought BF counld be so hard

[Gina1981]

DD is over 8 weeks now and EBF, but I never thought it was going to be this hard!

Ive been to bf clinic twice this week as I've been so close to giving up! I've started many threads on here re feeding as its been so difficult!

After 8 weeks of question re poo colour, being unsettled bla bla I've now come to the conclusion that she isn't getting a full feed and snacking instead! Sol I'm now on a journey to resolve this! If I'm being honest in so tired and fed up I'm now thinking is any of this worth it!

I don't know how long to keep going until I lose my mind! I have 2 other DC and I hardly have any time for them!

Advice please xxx

Gosh, Gina, all is very confused and confusing.

Best thing, I think, is to talk to someone in real life who is knowledgeable enough to take a full history and help you see the wood for the trees.

At various times you have worried about over supply and not having enough...on this thread you worry she is not getting a full feed, but she is still gaining weight very well, and you are worried about poo which really is not something to worry about. Maybe you have sought advice from a range of people, not all of whom understand about breastfeeding (like the osteopath?) and that has muddied the waters even more :(

You don't need to worry about the length and the frequency of breastfeeds. For block feeding , it's usual to have a gap of several hours between each breast ie you return the baby to the same breast each time within a time frame. This does indeed mean that with a three hour block, each breast would be 'used' every six hours. It does not matter a jot if your baby is 'snacking' - fighting the snacking is a lot harder than going with the flow. Trying to make her go longer between feeds instead of just feeding her is likely to make her more unsettled rather than less.

(NotnOtter - no need to express and discard. This would make life harder for the OP, and it's just not necessary :( )

Surely the snacking would keep sending signals to make more?? And she would only be getting the foremilk everytime?

Removing the milk sends the signal to make more, so if you're avoiding removing milk from one breast ie block feeding, it sends the signal to make less. It wouldn't make a difference if she is snacking on the side she is allowed on.

Tiiktok I don't think so - I would say what she needs is a break from continuous feeding and unhappy baby... She could freeze pumped milk for emergencies if she wants but I disagree with the whole argument that fore milk satiates as well as hind milk argument..

Gina you need a break from it - at 8 weeks I was told to go four hourly - at this stage ds became a different child - I felt better able to leave him without putting him to boob every ten minutes and EVERYTHINg improved

He fed for 11 months then happily

Gina you are totally right the constant snacking leads to huge gushing boobs!

Notnottr you are wrong. 'Constant snacking' on both sides is 'switch nursing' and does indeed increase supply. It might lead to 'gushing' if the mother is v. predisposed to over supply. It does not lead to 'gushing' if it is done in conjunction with block nursing.....it reduces overall supply, which is what we have gathered is needed here. It also means the baby gets less volume, of higher calorie milk.

The snacking does signal to make more IF you keep swapping breasts, i.e. if your baby is feeding every 1h (and you already have oversupply) and you swap sides after each feed then yes your body is going to get the idea you need more milk.

If you keep all feeds for 3 or 4 hours (I have even heard of a mother having so much milk they swapped sides after 24 hours), one side is getting the milk drunk out of it, where as the other side isn't so the unused side gets the hint to stop making so much milk. You then swap sides after a set period of time and then the other side starts to get the hint to stop with the milk already!

It does take time though to work so you do have to be patient. There isn't a quick fix for oversupply really short of not breastfeeding.

I would caution against artificially postponing feeds - if your baby's stomach can only hold 90mls (or what ever) leaving it empty when baby wants to feed won't make her be able to take more comfortably (it might make her try to take more and either she ends up with a stomach ache or she might vomit up the extra).

Following her cues, feeding her when she wants to, for how long she wants to, on the one side for an extended length of time will lower your supply to meet her needs (rather than the 2 or 3 of her your body thinks it has to feed).

'Going four hourly' does sometimes improve situations -it works the same as block nursing, really. The risk is that there is a period of distress and frustration and stress on both sides, as the baby is refused the feeding he/she is 'asking' for. It's not easy or pleasant.

Glad it worked for you, otter. In my experience, it's a last resort to try, when block nursing (which does not cause distress) has been properly tried and has not worked.

Hi Gina you sound like you're having a similar problem to me. DD is windy, unsettled, occasional green poos (also a lot of bum wind - way more than DS ever had - some real long hard ones and she cries immediately beforehand).

I have oversupply, overactive letdown, DS had acid reflux (my first dc who I bf for 2 years), he was dairy intolerant...

DD is 6 weeks old and also has a Tongue tie.

Lots to contend with!

I've ruled out reflux (so far) for DD - and think it's the tie and oversupply. With block feeding, I feed from the same boob two feeds in a row. She only feeds for ten mins at a time and usually gies anywhere from 1-3 hours between feeds. She will feed when tired too - these are usually when she feeds after an hour since the last one.
When feeding, DD clicks and gulps a lot of air throughout the feed. I'm getting referred to clinic to have it checked.

I have to really watch Dd's position to reduce the air she swallows - she can end up having burps up to an hour later otherwise. I also have to wind by holding bolt upright.

I also use a sling all day - it's tiring but with a 2 year old it's the best way to keep her (and him!) calm.

I hope your lactation consultant helps on Monday! It's bloody hard.

Iggly DD clicks and gulps etc too!! Sounds exactly what I'm going through! I will get the specialist to check for Tongue tie again but I'm pretty sure she hasn't as others have checked!

So far today DD has been alot better! Less explosive bowel movements and less unsettled! She's managed 3 naps and 4 feeds which all lasted 10 mins plus, before they would last 5-7 mins and then explosive green poos! They have been more yellow today! Today isn't over but I'm less exhausted! I guess will have to wait and see!

I've been feeding her 2-3 hourly and one breast each feed! May need to adjust this but let's wait and see!

Thank you to everyone who has been posting, some interesting debates! It's a tough thing this bf business! So many emotions involved! Normally I would have given up as there is another solution, formula! But I'm so determined this time, that why I'm so desperate for this to work and to find out the problem!!

Gina, glad you've had a better day! I think the clicking can be because of oversupply too - worth checking on Monday!

Spoke too bloody soon! DD had a bright green poo!

I know I shouldn't get so hung up on this but it just doesn't seem normal!

Feeding sounds better today, Gina....what can we say to make you stop worrying about the colour of the poo?? :) :)

Bright green is on the normal spctrum.

Glad to hear you sounding more positive today Gina. I hope the advice here - sometimes conflicting - is helping rather than hindering. All the stuff I've googled suggests that block feeding is the best way forward in your situation (from what we can tell on here) - I was thinking if you're feeding her 3 hourly-ish from one breast, what you could do is swap her position when she has a break (after the first 7-10mns) to a 'rugby ball' hold (i.e. so she is not lying across your body in a 'cross hold', but around the side of your body that you are feeding from, and under your arm (you can use cushions to help support her body) That way she accesses the same nipple but I swear it makes them think they're getting a 'new' one! When I had blocked ducts and was trying to get the breast well and truly empty, I would do this, and DS would go for it! (Is this too far-fetched?!)

Sounds like spinach-poo is getting the thumbs up from Tiktok - and really, I've been MNing since 2005 and have used her advice, and she knows her stuff.

Speaking of whom - in answer to your question, I was told that if a mum eats too much citrus / drinks OJ it made stools more runny. I was told to drink more OJ after I'd started giving the DSs solids, if ever they got a bit constipated (as they were still BFing). I just wondered if Gina is worried about very explosive, runny poo, whether that might be factor? Thankfully, sounds like things have been going better today.

I avoid drinking juices but I do drink alot of orange squash, do you think this may be causing the green poo?

From what tiktok says, no. And she is an expert, as opposed to me being an experienced, but untrained, BFer. However, it is bad for your teeth .

I really think you need to chill out about the poo. Work on your latch if you can, to avoid sore nips, but if your DD is gaining weight, alert, wetting nappies - then chill over the foremilk/hindmilk and green stools. You don't need that stress. Really pleased to hear it's going better today - I really feel for you, know exactly how bad it can be. But also, know that if you hang on in there, there's every chance you'll be enjoying the close bond and convenience of BFing for many more months (and perhaps years!) Have a good night.

Should I be worrying about the frequency of green poos a day??

No, do not worry about freq of green poo a day
Very normal for breast fed babies to have a range of colours in their poo and nothing to worry about.
Green very normal
And lots of babies do lots of poos

Orange squash will have no effect on your baby, Gina - individuals will say that x or y food or drink had an effect on their baby, but there's no evidence that we can say anything is more likely to have an effect than something else.

Frequency of poo sounds normal.

I've woken up this noting with a very very full and engorged left breast, this is breast I fed from most of yesterday. Last fed from it at around 8ish. Is this normal for it to be so engorged? When should I start to notice a reduction?

The right breast didn't seem too bad but still full! I fed from the right one last night at 11pm and 7.30am this morning! How ling shall I leave the left breast? Oversupply is giving me so many problems.

Tiktok, do you think I need to express the foremilk off before the fed?? There is so much foremilk there.

GIna, yes, it's normal for you to feel that engorgement. It takes a few days for this to settle when you are doing block nursing. For comfort's sake, express very gently, the minimum you need to be comfortable only.....no more. But if your baby is feeding from it (if it is this breasts' 'turn') no need to express at all.