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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Please, I desperately need some help

156 replies

lookout · 30/10/2011 08:56

Here is the background

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1321772-Tongue-tie

My last post is today's situation. I just don't know what to do. I am seriously considering giving up, i dread every feed. I just really need someone to tell me what to do.

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SESthebrave · 30/10/2011 09:04

Oh I'm so sorry you're having a tough time. I'm no expert but my DS had an undiagnosed tongue tie for his first month so I can relate to what you've been through. It was agony! I thought I was being a wuss for complaining but - and here's the thing - as soon as he had it snipped, feeding was not painful, easier for him and he slept better.

All I can think of is either for some reason the snip wasn't complete or maybe there is also an underying latch issue. If you want to stop BF then stop but if you have any uncertainty please contact someone. Is there a BF counsellor available at the hospital today? You could phone one of the helplines. NCT is 0300 330 0700; La Leche is 0845 120 2918.

Failing that, keep posting here and someone more expert will be along soon.

Sparklingbrook · 30/10/2011 09:15

Also, I'm no expert. I had to give up breastfeeding as I found the pain toe-curling (no tongue tie though). I remember being upstairs in floods of tears as DH gave DS1 his first formula feed. I was disappointed and terribly upset but after a few days I started to realise it was for the best. He's 12 now but I remember it so vividly.

Try and get some advice from the helplines and make the decision so that you can move forward. Thinking of you.

theboobmeister · 30/10/2011 09:51

lookout you need to speak to someone skilled in real-life, ASAP!!! You need a BF counsellor - someone supportive who has worked with lots of non-latching babies and mums in pain, with time to sit with you and help you to crack this.

Please call one (or both!) of the helplines today. The NCT one will help you to find your nearest BF counsellor and you may be able to meet up with her. Otherwise they will be able to give you lots of support over the phone. Where are you based?

In the meantime, you could try a 'laid-back' breastfeeding position which often works wonders with painful latches. There is a video here www.biologicalnurturing.com/video/bn3clip.html

worldgonecrazy · 30/10/2011 09:54

Can you express for a few feeds, or alternate feeds? I remember the pain so bad I was kicking a wall whilst feeding to try and distract myself. Knowing that I could get one feed pain free somehow kept me going until I got to the point where it didn't hurt anymore (about 10 weeks).

Eat some cake and have a glass of wine too.

JacqueslePeacock · 30/10/2011 10:38

My DS had a posterior tongue tie divided 4 weeks ago. I didn't notice any improvement in breastfeeding whatsoever for the first 3 or 4 days - in fact, I think feeding actually became more difficult, since DS had to re-learn the whole feeding process (how to use his "new" tongue, etc) and would alternately clamp down on my nipple, slide off or give up in frustration. I was feeling in despair about the whole thing.

Gradually, though, things became easier over the course of the next week or so, and by a fortnight later I was almost painfree. We've had some minor setbacks (6th week growth spurt feeding marathon, a stuffy nose preventing him from breathing properly while feeding for a couple of days, and so on) but all in all I would say breastfeeding is now 100 times easier than before the tongue tie division. I consider the fee for the division about the best money we've ever spent.

I hope this makes you feel a little better. Things will most likely improve soon but I suspect it might be normal for it to get slightly worse before it really gets better. Hang in there.

lookout · 30/10/2011 15:39

Jacques, thanks so much for your reply. It gives me hope that things will get better. Did you use shields at all? I don't know if i should just ditch them or not. In any case thanks again, hopefully it'll start to get better soon.

I have emailed my local ncy bf counsellor. I guess i still need some help with latch and not sure what they could do over the phone? Clinic isn't til tues though, and if we have another night like last night, tues seems a long way away.

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lookout · 30/10/2011 16:40

worldgonecrazy, chocolate and wine are what is getting me through so far! the pain though, is awful, esp at night when i'm tired as well. 10 weeks is a long time to feed in pain too.

boobmeister, still waiting to hear from the nct bf counsellor. the bf mw i've been seeing isn't available by phone until tomorrow and doesn't have clinic until tues. but i most probably will need some help before then, i think.

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nearlyreadytopop · 30/10/2011 17:27

lookout, I just wanted to say that I really feel for you. I have been where you are in terms of pain and I still am not out of the woods yet. As everyone else has said you need someone very experienced to help you out.

In the meantime and I mean to get you through tonight maybe some paracetamol www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2458.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=129 and ibuprofen www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2461.aspx?CategoryID=54&SubCategoryID=129?

As well as the wine and chocolate Smile

nearlyreadytopop · 30/10/2011 17:41

just wondering if you could express and give your milk in a bottle tonight to give your nipples some relief and yourself a bit of rest. And then see someone tomorrow to get shield/latch advice. Its def easier to handle it being sore when you have had a nice warm bath and a good sleep.

JacqueslePeacock · 30/10/2011 18:11

lookout, I didn't use shields (never tried them), and I would think it might be best not to if you want your DS to start learn to latch on properly - as it is it will be hard for him to re-learn how to breastfeed and I suspect shields will just complicate things. Having said that, it's horrible feeding in pain (I know from experience!). I got through it with paracetamol and lashings of lansinoh, as well as repeated trips to the local breastfeeding clinic, and it did gradually improve.

I'm sure feeding will get more comfortable for you and your DS soon too. The lactation consultant I saw said she thought it would take around as long for my DS to learn the new way of feeding as he had had to learn the old way before the tongue tie was snipped - so in his case, 3 weeks as he was 3 weeks old. It was actually quite a bit less than that before I was almost pain free, but knowing it would take time helped me feel more confident that things would improve. I also had several tongue exercises to do with DS, and did those at least daily - do you have those too? I think they helped him strengthen and get used to using his tongue.

I second the recommendation to go to see the BF counsellor on Tuesday - a bit of latching help and moral support can work wonders. Good luck!

lookout · 31/10/2011 14:30

Spoke to the NCT bf counsellor last night who was wonderful, very supportive and lots of advice. Fed successfully without shields all night and evening. Managed about 4.5 hours sleep when dh gave a bottle of expressed. But today for some reason it's all gone wrong again. Every feed so far has been excruciating. He keeps falling asleep at the breast then waking an hour later to feed again because he didn't get enough before falling asleep. Then it happens all over again. He screams when waking and hasn't seemed contented at all. I'm in floods of tears cos I don't know what I'm doing wrong, and i'm wishing we'd never decided on a second child. I feel awful

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worldgonecrazy · 31/10/2011 14:38

You are doing nothing wrong. These highs and lows are normal. There seems to be something in post-pregnancy hormones that makes every problem seem much bigger than it is.

You did it last night, you will do it again, but at the moment you're tired.

Remember to keep practicing getting the latch right, not so easy during the night but worth doing in the daytime. Phone the counsellor again if you need to.

lookout · 31/10/2011 16:00

Thank you. Doesn't help that it's been impossible to put him down all day. Have expressed a few feeds to give my nipples a break, but next one will have to be me. I am dreading it, which is heart-breaking in itself

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lou4791 · 31/10/2011 16:10

Really feeling for you.
The link at the top wouldn't work for me so I don't know the whole story, but if it is tongue tie causing the problem then it needs sniping asap. BF councellors in your area should know about this.
Don't hesitate to contact the NCT councellor again.
As others have said, feeling like this is normal for many women.
Try to forget doing anything else if possible at the moment. Skin to skin with baby as much as you can. Grab bits of sleep as much as you can.

lookout · 31/10/2011 16:24

Thanks lou. Had the snip on Friday, and i admit i was hoping for an instant change, which there hasn't been, and i'm disappointed. And I'm someone who always has to be busy so I'm finding it hard to slow down and concentrate only on baby. I keep thinking of all the things there are to do. Have now been sitting here wiyh him sleeping on my chest for over an hour, trying desperately not to worry about the washing in the machine, or the beds that need changing.

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worldgonecrazy · 31/10/2011 16:52

Take your paracetomol now, at least half an hour before the feed, and don't forget that glass of wine!

JacqueslePeacock · 31/10/2011 17:16

Forget the housework. I know it's easier said than done but I think it's the only way. My kitchen has a huge backlog of dishes, I'm living on takeaway meals and the laundry is piling up around me but I'm determined not to care.

And I think it's normal for there to be ups and downs - we had it too. When he was very hungry, or over-tired, he would forget the "new" way of latching and go back to the bad old way, only with the now released tongue it hurt even more than before the snip! But if you managed to feed without shields all last night I'd say you're doing great, even if things have got harder again since. At least you know you and he CAN do it.

lookout · 31/10/2011 18:23

Paracetamol taken and wine at the ready.

He slept all afternoon on me. Why can he not sleep like that in his basket?? I am in desperate need of a bit of a kip, all that crying is wearing me out, but have ds1 who needs looking after too.

He hasn't fed since a bottle of expressed at half two. SHould i be waking him?

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metalelephant · 31/10/2011 20:23

Lookout, so sorry about what you're going through. I felt exactly like you, afraid of the next feed, though breast shields never worked for us and the snip had immediate results.

Try to hang in there, take paracetamol
one hour before feeding as it takes a while to get working. It may have been mentioned before but also feed in different positions so your nipples don't always get bitten in the same way. On the days when the pain was unbearable, I expressed from the worst affected nipple and offered that in bottles. It's important that you keep your nipples in as good condition as you can, both for breastfeeding to continue and for your own sanity!
I was really worried about nipple confusion but a breastfeeding consultant told me that it's more likely that babies that refuse the breast after bottle feeding because the mothers milk production has suffered rather than the nipple itself. So as long as you express and still offer the (less hurt) breast you should be fine. I had to give dd some formula topups and expressed milk for a few days, and now we're back to breastfeeding solely.

I have the exact same issue with sleeping as you do, dd will only sleep in my chest and occasionally I will be able to shift her next to me on her side, so she's still really close. Most of the time though she will wake up and taken back to my chest.
What I will try is another consultant's suggestion: to put a hot water bottle in her basket for a while so she's not woken up by the heat and also to out some used breast pads under the sheet so she can smell your milk. Also a worn shirt under her or next to her that smells like you.
I plan to start doing that during the day when she naps and stick with my chest in the night, simply because I really can't deal with any extra pressure when I'm extra tired at nighttime.

I hope your meeting with the consultant tomorrow goes well, sending you lots of courage and well done for sticking with it despite the hellish pain. xx

metalelephant · 31/10/2011 20:26

Sorry for the confusing explanation about the hot water bottle, I meant that the warmed up mattress is more likely to keep baby asleep rather than the shock of the cold sheet.

metalelephant · 31/10/2011 20:27

... And yes, don't let your baby sleep over 3 hours, at least that's what we were told at the tongue tie clinic.

theboobmeister · 01/11/2011 12:39

Oh lookout, what a rotten time you're having!

Can you call the line and speak to the same NCT counsellor again (or a different one)? Getting the latch right is trial and error, very often things will improve, get worse, then improve again. You could talk through what you were doing that worked, so you know what needs to be changed. Keep trying different things, keep correcting his latch, and at some point the pain will stop.

In the meantime, could you take DS to bed with you today and get some sleep like that? This picture shows how to do it safely.

So long as you're feeding or expressing 8 - 12 times a day, he will be OK and your milk supply will be fine.

lookout · 01/11/2011 12:48

Thanks so much everyone for your replies. Saw bf mw today who showed me how to do exaggerated latch, no pain whatsoever! Have just tried it myself at home and it's not as good as when she showed me, but definitely better than normal. will keep persevering with it.

metalelephant, i have started sitting on a sheet while feeding to warm it up then popping it in the basket before putting ds in. sometimes works, not always though, so will try your two suggestions. i don't mean this in a nasty way, but it helps to know we're not the only ones struggling Smile.

boobmeister, i managed 4 hours again last night when dh gave the early morning feed. I want to try feeding lying down, but worried that with the latch problem, it will be too painful. have to try i suppose.

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theboobmeister · 01/11/2011 13:23

Great news, well done you!!! Glad you got some sleep too. You can try feeding lying down whenever you feel ready, when you've got it sussed it makes a huuuuge difference.

Hang on in there lookout, you're doing brilliantly.

lookout · 01/11/2011 13:53

thanks so much. i really need and appreciate the support Smile

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