Please, I desperately need some help

[lookout]

Here is the background

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1321772-Tongue-tie

My last post is today's situation. I just don't know what to do. I am seriously considering giving up, i dread every feed. I just really need someone to tell me what to do.

Truthsweet, thank you so much. I've been feeling like it has to be all or nothing which has made me feel like a total failure. So your post has done me the world of good. I am worried about supply but i guess i have to take one step at a time and get the latch issue sorted first. thanks for the idea about finishing the feed at the breast, i will try it. i also need to do some skin to skin as i've been way too preoccupied with the expressing/feeding malarkey to take time out. maybe when my nips have stopped hurting i'll pop into bed for a feed or two, thanks for reminding me . also, i used your mantra when feeding yesterday and it really helped.

lc is coming to my home tomorrow to try and find a way to get to the bottom of this.

Lookout - all that sounds really positive. Hoping the visit from the LC goes well. Let us know how you got on!

When you have the LC visit you could ask for a plan for weaning down off bottles. Having a plan can help you to focus on how well things are going rather than focusing on having had to give a supplemental feed (as they are built in to the plan).

For example the plan might be:-

to lower the amount of milk offered at every feed and increase feeds at the breast (so instead of offering 90mls you might offer 80mls then reduce the amount given by 10mls every day/few days and finish off at the breast), when getting to down to 20mls or so you might be able to cut out every other top up or drop one top up at a time over a few days,

or,

to reduce the number of supplemental feeds given in total (e.g. moving from 6 supplements to 5 then from 5 to 4 a few days later etc, etc),

or,

to aim to exclusively breast feed for a set number of hours before offering top ups (e.g. ebf between 8am-12pm before offering top up - switching sides frequently with breast compressions as needed) then gradually increase the time you ebf for each day (it might only be by 15 mins a day or it might be by an hour a day so the next day you might ebf between 8am-12.15pm if you were really struggling by 12pm or if it was relatively easy you could try for 8am-1pm the next day. Obviously picking the time of day that suits you to start the ebfing (it might be mornings don't work and the afternoon would be better).

These are just example plans of what the LC might suggest rather than my suggestions for you to follow as I haven't seen baby and don't know all the details. She may propose a completely different way of reducing the top-ups (I'd love to hear the plan if she does [though only if you wanted to!] as I'm training to be a bfc and need all the help I can get).

On the skin to skin front you really don't have to aim to feed during skin to skin, just baby hanging out on mum (or dad) can help, you can do skin to skin during a bottle feed too (oxytocin is released by baby during skin to skin which improves digestion regardless of feeding method or substance) or have a bath together (though best if you have someone on hand to deal with slippery baby while you get out the bath).

wish i'd seen your post before lc visit. she thinks i should go cold turkey from bottles. she gave me some mam nipple shields to try for when i'm sore but it was more painful with them than without, and ds still just kept fussing and falling asleep with them. i bf all day yesterday, no bottles at all, but started to get sore on the same side as usual during the afternoon. cluster fed for the first time from 5-9pm by which point i was exhausted and in agony, so he had the last of my ebm from a bottle. bf twice in the night and dh gave bottle of formula at 7 this morning. my bad side is getting really sore again, so i'm AGAIN having to put it out of action and express. no matter what advice i take, nothing seems to work. i'm just gonna muddle along as best i can until either we turn a corner or i give up through frustration, who knows which will come first. i'm fed up.

It may be that cold turkey from bottles would work if you were giving all feeds as ebm but as you mention formula that might not be appropriate depending on the amount of formula given vs ebm/bf given - an oz or 2 given every other day might not be a concern but a few large feeds a day might be tricky to eliminate overnight (though I don't know which is the case for you).

Are there any other avenues of support you could access? Which group does the LC belong to (NCT/ABM/BFN/LLL) or is she in private practice or is she an IBCLC? If you wanted to let me know where you are I could find out additional groups in your area (by pm if you prefer).

It sounds like you might need to have the latch evaluated again and baby checked to see if any adhesions or re-growth of the TT are affecting his latching ability. It also might be worthwhile getting swabs taken of your nipples (oh the glamorous life of a bfing mum ) to see if you have thrush or staph. if you are not healing up well and have lots of pain on bfing. More reading on staph/thrush infections here.

Don't feel it is all or nothing with bfing, every feed you can manage is a great thing for baby but giving a bottle will not make him grow a 2nd head or turn you into the world's worst mother. Please don't feel you HAVE to feed him every time yourself even if it is painful, of course nurse him as much as you like but if you feel in pain, it's damaging you and you can't find a way to feed comfortable then giving a bottle or cup or syringe/finger feed can be looked on as a medicine (both for you and baby).

tbh i don't think i should ask anyone else hor help. i've made myself worse with information overload from so many different people. the help i've had on here has been better than most of the rl advice i've had (the nct bf counsellor has been the best), and more realistic. i just have to hope that it somehow rights itself, and as soon as possible.

Just wanted to let you know, Lookout, FWIW, that I'm following this thread and wishing you strength.

Can't add anything to Truth's excellent advice, but wanted you to know I'm supporting from a distance :)

I really do get where you are coming from but I'm just concerned if you don't get baby's mouth checked and get your latch check by someone who is knowledgeable you might have something easily fixable missed.

FFS I really stuffed that edit up sorry!

occ, thank you. i'm hopin we'll get there eventually. i've read of lots of people on here who persevered and it eventually just clicked into place. i'm feeling positive this afternoon, my mum is here for moral support until friday then she's away for the weekend and coming back next week. beyond that i don't know. i need to take it one day at a time.

the lc is different from the nct bf counsellor. i've never met the nct lady, only spoken over the phone. her clinic is tomorrow morning but i unfortunately can't make it. the lc is icl wotsit thingy and abm, and has repeatedly seen latch and position and can't see anything wrong. she's blaming feeding for 4 weeks with a tt so having to relearn, as well as bottle feeding eading to nipple confusion. she checked the tt yesterday and it's fine, and also noted he has a high palate which she said will even out as he grows.

i can't tell you all how much i appreciate all your advice and support. i will keep posting, if nothing else it helps to vent!

and truth, i'm still chanting your mantra "chin, lower lip, nipple in mouth, upper lip"

lookout at the risk of throwing more at you (and I THINK I may already have said this) you know that cranial osteopathy can help after a TT release? Also it's useful with a high palete as that can be part of a compression thing going on. It's all linked in with TT.

Sorry to suggest more stuff...

occ, no worries. we're seeing a baby chiropractor - similar to the cranial osteopathy. there was an immediate improvement in how settled he was after the first session, though not so much with feeding yet. we have another session on friday, and I am hoping for the best.

ooh, also occ, i got a hoppediz woven wrap after trying one at a bf cafe. i love it to bits, it is the best baby thing i've ever bought

Vent away. If it helps to have an angry rant, let it out and move onwards and upwards do it!

Ah yes, I remember now. Sorry! Glad it helped in one way. I take mine (former TT) about every 6 months (at 17 months) because he feels that there's retained tension which needs releasing as he grows. He tends to sleep for hours after each treatment.

Hubs has a longish, thin face which is a classic shape for tension and TT, and he has sinus problems which are also related. Apparently the CO can help the smallest carrot to avoid these things later in life as he is of a similar shape. So while it wasn't possible to know if it helped our BFing I do keep going because I feel it's a good thing for his type of facial structure, which is connected to the TT IYSWIM.

Lookout - I also have a hopp woven wrap which I love (and a moby and another wrap on its way). Wrapping is addictive.

Anyway nothing more to add but just to let you know I'm still reading!

How are things today Lookout?

Hello lookout, I may not be posting a lot but I think of you and your ds often, hope things are getting better x

Thanks all. Had a better day today. In fact since seeing the chiro on Tuesday things have started to eb a bit more settled. Have done mostly bf the last two days, with dh giving one bottle in early morning to let me sleep. Still a bit sore but much better than it was. Fingers crossed it will continue this way!

Yay! .

Double yay from me!

Lookout - that's fab news.

thanks guys . i still have a latch problem on my rhs, which stings and leaves a burning feeling after feed. i have wondered about thrush, but the bfn info says thrush pain starts after feeding, and this starts immediately he's on there. anyway, it's pretty painful but i can grit my teeth through it, unlike before. hopefully it will just get better with time. i am feeling more positive, and that is such a change.

thanks to everyone for posting, you've been amazing

Lookout - how are things?

titania, things are much better. thank you so much for asking. still not a very deep latch but it's now only those first few and last few sucks that sting, when he gets past the let down, it's fine. i guess that as he gets bigger, it will get better.

how are you?