Please, I desperately need some help

[lookout]

Here is the background

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1321772-Tongue-tie

My last post is today's situation. I just don't know what to do. I am seriously considering giving up, i dread every feed. I just really need someone to tell me what to do.

Good luck at the clinic! x

i did also find that the 'baby moon' really helped me last time i was worried about this. after school run, i got us both undressed and stayed in bed til pick up, with dozing, nursing, reading and tv. plenty of snacks and water. was quite enjoyable actually, can you get someone to help you with your other child so you can give it a go?

Ah poor you lookout, sounds like you're really going through it :( You've had some fab advice on this thread. Just wondered, how are you preparing your breasts for expressing? It is often helpful, a few minutes before starting expressing, to put a warm flannel on the breast for a bit. Then gently massage from the armpit down towards the nipple, all over the breast. Also try gently tapping the breast with your fingertips and a bit of nipple twiddling. You may find that this helps to get more milk. Or you may have already tried it, if so tell me to shut up! :O

Have you tried hand expressing as well as pumping? Hand expression and pumping work in different ways so it could be that when your flow slows/stops you could try a bit of hand expressing and see if that causes another letdown.

It sounds like you are doing brilliantly and trying so hard in a challenging situation, I really feel for you.

thanks for the expressing advice. i've heard these things before but haven't tried them yet. it's always such a rush to try and fit in a session of expressing before he wakes up that i never seem to have the time to do these things! yesterday was not a good expressing day, i didn't manage to empty the breast at all, but this morning has been better - my mini electric is undoubtedly better than the avent hand pump. i'm not so good at hand expressing either - not sure i really know how to do it!

i'm actually hoping to not have to express so much for much longer. hopefully i can get the latch sorted today or tomorrow and can go back to feeding on both sides. really hoping!!!

I can't recommend Milk Matters highly enough, Lookout. milkmatters.org.uk/

Free telephone consults - she only charges for home visits and can only visit if you're in her area (around Halifax).

Just to add to what organic says. If you do need a home visit and you're not in Halifax then Milk Matters can arrange for Ann Dobson to come and visit as they work together. That's what they did for me as I'm in the midlands. Home visits are chargeable though as organic says.

Also have a look at the Analytical Armadillo blog (Milk matter's personal blog). There are loads of great articles and info on there about breast feeding!

Her info gave me the info I needed to push to get my sons TT diagnosed so I'm very grateful.

And I rate Ann very highly too :) Having been in a very similar position, with a TT baby, and Ann snipped him (twice). She's great. Still Bfing at 16 months, still remember the agony and the horror of it :( :(

Has been lovely for months although I've never loved it as much as I did with DS1. Personally I'm very glad we managed to get through it, thanks to loads of support, but going through it is absolutely horrible.

thanks for your replies. just to let you know that i'm seing the lactation consultant again today as things are getting worse and worse. my bad side healed so i started feeding on it again, it's now cracked and sore again. what was the ok side, is now even worse than the other and is bleeding with a red raw patch on the end. as i've been feeding off both sides for two days, i haven't been expressing, so overnight, i had no stash to give him to give myself a break. he's now had two formula feeds . even those haven't filled him up as much as i thought they would (he had 5oz at 4.45am and another 5 at 7.30, i've no idea how much is normal though), and i'm now expressing to empty both boobs for the next feed. i feel totally disheartened about the whole thing. i've spoken to the bf mw, she was at a loss except to say keep taking him straight off each time it hurts and putting him back on. i did that at 1am and ended up doing it about a dozen times, with me and him getting more and more distraught, in the end i settled for a painful latch just to let him feed. i can't bear the thought of having to put him back on my boobs, it absolutely fills me with dread when i hear him cry and know it's time for a feed. if this lc can't help today, i've no idea what else to do. i haven't called milk matters, i'm not in their area and what can they tell me over the phone that my local lc hasn't already told me?

Oh lookout. I was just reading your thread hoping to see that things had settled down. I'm sorry they haven't.

I can very clearly remember the dread of my baby needing feeding. It is an awful feeling. A moment of relief when the feed is finished but the knowledge that it's only for a short while.

I'm not an expert at all but couldn't read your last post and not respond.

I hope you get some help today. X

thanks. i so wish i could be one of those happy bfeeders!

my lc just texted to say she has to cancel our appt this morning. i don't know what to do now.

Hang in there lookout! I had 7 weeks of horrific pain due to a poor latch, then figured out the exaggerated latch but it took another 2 weeks of trying, re-attaching, etc until both DD and I got the hang of it. Bf has been completely painless since (5.5 months now), so it is worth percevering if you can!

Sorry, ignore my post above, I misread the thread and thought things were getting better for you with the exaggerated latch.

I hope you find a pain-free solution!

exaggerated latch works sometimes, but not always. i'm not entirely sure i'm doing it righ though. i so desperately want this to work.

Thinking of you lookout, so sorry you're having a hard time, don't beat yourself up for giving him formula, I felt the same way - actually I felt like I was giving my baby poison. But it's not, it's nourishment and besides I'm sure you'll catch up with expressing soon. Where do you live? Or rather, are you London based?

Sending you a big hug x

not far from london, metal: bucks. why?

Lookout, I sympathise so much as I could have written your posts a few months ago but DS is now 7.5 months and still breastfed and we did get through the damage and pain with only a couple of days at my lowest point where I had to give him formula as I couldn't face another pain marathon feeding session. Is it the Chiltern Breastfeeding Partnership LC's you've been seeing? I got really good support from them as well as from my local LLL - I'm at the Bucks end of Oxfordshire.

I don't know what to suggest until you can see someone but just wanted to say you're doing amazingly and I wish there was some way to help you more.

Are you taking as many painkillers as possible? Both ibuprofen and paracetamol. I didn't like doing it but had to for the first couple of months of breastfeeding. Also, if you've had an open crack for a couple if weeks, it can easily get slightly infected which isn't necessarily obvious to look at but can slow healing- I was prescribed Fucidin cream and put it on after each feed.

Hope you find a way through.

I asked because I'm in linen and my local breastfeeding cafe councillor is a lovely lady who I wondered if you're find helpful. I'm not doing too well personally, baby is not latching and I think she mainly drinks topups, she was weighed today and has put a lot of weight on, well over her birth weight finally. Which is great, but I wish it wasn't because of formula

In linen? In linen? Honestly, my phone is from a different planet. I'm in London

Oh Lookout. So so sorry things are so bad. I don't know what else to suggest. You could try Milk Matters. They're not in your area but they work with Ann Dobson who travels. She came to see me and I'm
In the midlands. I realise that might not help you immediately though.

I don't know anyone in your area. There are some Breastfeeding counsellors on here who might know someone in your area. You could try re-posting with a request for a different LC in your area.
I really hope you get the support you need soon.

speckledy, it's heartening to hear of another person who persevered. i've been seeing sarah bridges in eton, part of nature's mothers, but someone else recommended the chiltern group. if sarah doesn't rearrange by monday i might try them. i am taking painkillers, as well as wine and chocolate . i have been pumping all day and dh has been giving bottles. i've no stash so i'm pumping to feed as it were. if i don't have enough it'll have to be formula to give my nips a chance to heal. i simply cannot face, like you, feeding him on them atm. thanks so much for the encouragement. i have been in tears all afternoon and posts like yours give me a bit of a boost.

metal, hooray for the weight gain! it doesn't matter how she gained it. now that's under way, can you get some help to wean her back to the breast? we have to stop beating ourselves up - most imoprtant is they are healthy and loved. you are doing your best, what more can you ask of yourself?

titania, thanks again for the support. will think about doing that if my lc doesn't come back to me soon.

please keep posting, people. it's really helping to carry me through. i never imagined it would be this tough

Wine and chocolate or, in my case, cake are absolutely necessary.

For me the lowest point was the week following the tongue tie division which had happened when he was 5 weeks old. It just didn't seem to be any better. After that the improvement was gradual but noticeable, breast shaping/exaggerated latch helped.

Could you stretch to a private consultation lookout? Ann is private but she's ace. Either way, do give Milk Matters a call - she's free and will give you loads of support.

It's horrible, but you can do it. We're all with you xxx

lookout - so sorry to hear your going through the mill with bfing. It sounds like you are doing all you can to get things going so I do hope things click soon. I definitely 2nd/3rd the suggestion of contacting Milk Matters or Ann Dobson their reputations are very very good.

After reading your posts something occurred to me - have you had a swab done of your cracked nipple? Sometimes cracks can get infected with bugs like thrush or more commonly staph. and this can make healing very difficult without treatment. Not saying you do have this just it might be something the GP could have a look into. This has lots of info on the matter.

Have you been doing moist wound healing at all? If the crack in the nipple heals with a scab then when the baby suckles they suck off the scab leaving a slightly bigger wound, the next time the baby suckles that scab gets sucked off leaving an even bigger wound. With moist wound healing you use a treatment like Jelonet (paraffin wax on a gauze strip - there is probably proprietary brands as well) or you can make your own by slathering lanolin onto a breast pad (making sure you don't stick to the pad). This means the wound heals with out forming a scab so no ripping off and enlarging of wound on bfing.

I really hope things get better soon but don't forget EACH feed you have given your baby (be it at the breast or from a bottle) is a good thing for baby. Some times taking it feed (or pumping session) by feed helps - thinking long term can sometimes be too daunting but taking it feed by feed can seem more manageable. I used to say with DD1 'if I can just get through this feed/pumping, I can make a decision after'. She ended up going from being excl. bottle fed (formula and some ebm) at 1 day old to excl. bf at 8 weeks to being nursed to 3.6y/o. Just a little ray of hope....I hope

well, this has been the week following the 2nd tt division, speckledy, and like you a definite low point. can you explain breast shaping? also how do you do exaggerated latch? that did help us for a while but i'm not sure i'm still doing it properly.

i looked inro private home visits but i can't really afford it. if my lactation consultant gets back to me, i can go to hers free of charge, so i'll try and wait her out. if no joy will contact milk matters, although everyone so far really seems to be at a loss as to what is causing the problem. nct bf counsellor today suggested it might just be as he grows, and his mouth gets bigger, it will get better (i have big nipples apparently). so then it would just be a question of waiting it out

i haven't had a swab done, but the lc last week was pretty sure it wasn't thrush. my last cracked nipple did heal but ot worse after several bad feeds. i am moist wound healing with jelonet, which works wonders. i think that isonderful advice, to take it one feed/pump at a time. thanks for your story too. i am collecting all these rays of hope and trying to convince myself that we will get there too.

i haven't fed from the breast at all today. I am hoping to give it a go during the night, but i will have bottle prepared in case it doesn't work out. i have to say i am dreading it though

lookout - This has lots of info on latching baby on using breast shaping and general help in latching on.

The swab would really to rule out a staph. infection which can cause lots of problems with pain/poor healing. The link I posted earlier has all the information for the GP to arrange culturing/where to swab (baby needs swabbing too apparently). I think it would be worth while to rule it out and it's not an invasive test for either you or baby though obviously it's not compulsory!

I went through days were DD1 didn't feed at all and just had bottles, she did get back to the breast but it was hard work (well worth it though) and for me I needed to keep pumping regularly to keep going. I never made enough to excl. ebm feed DD1 but still we made the leap to excl. bfing.

What pump are you using? Have you got a sized to fit breast shell as you mention you have large nipples? Ardo and Medela do different sized shells as you can damage your nipples by using the wrong size (voice of experience here ). Fitting guide for Ardo here but would apply for any pump regardless of brand.