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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

First time mums who do not try bf - why?

175 replies

Booboostoo · 01/08/2011 12:39

This is a genuine question out of curiosity and NOT an attempt to label or evaluate anyone!!

I know 5 women who gave birth for the first time around the same time as me. One tried bf but it didn't work out which is fair enough. The other four never tried it. Why do people choose formula without giving bf a go? As far as I know neither had a medical reason preventing them from bf, it was a matter of choice, but why do people reject bf when they don't know if it will work for them? They all have months of maternity leave.

OP posts:
superjobee · 01/08/2011 13:32

i have to say that i had a lot of help with BFing, i stayed in hospital an extra day to get help with DD latching on, my midwife watched me BF to check how i was doing when i got home and my health visitor was very supportive even when i mentioned i wanted to give up she helped me with mixed feeding for 3 weeks to get DD used to it and to stop me getting mastitis from just quitting all in all excellent advice and help.

Booboostoo · 01/08/2011 13:38

VelvetSnow many thanks for sharing your experiences. Expressing is a total nuissance. I can only get a small amount of milk at a time and, this is almost funny, DD smells the milk when I express and wants more! OH was in hospital recently and I had to express enough to leave DD with the childminder so I could visit OH every day for 4 days and I really struggled - all I did all day long was feed and express!

ellmum very interesting. A male friend can't bear to look at me while I bf (we are good friends with him and his wife so they have been over a lot). I can't quite figure out why and he doesn't seem to want to discuss it, but he leaves the room when I bf.

superjobee sorry to hear you had a tough time of it! Do what makes you feel less stressed! That it didn't work first time round doesn't necessarily mean it won't work this time, but if it upsets you then don't even try!

I have just been talking about this and the general issue of women feeling they have to conform to an idealistic conception of motherhood (according to which easy conceptions, painless births and unproblematic bf is the hallmark of natural womanhood) with a friend on bf and she gave me this reference to her work:

"Ethical Problems with Information on Infant Feeding in Developed Countries", Fahlquist J.N. and Roeser S., Public Health Ethics, 2011, 4(2): 192-202

OP posts:
AliGrylls · 01/08/2011 13:38

I am sure for some of these women it had a lot to do with how they feel about their own bodies. From personal experience and those of my friends I found that those people who had a really relaxed attitude towards their bodies and were comfortable with themselves seemed to have the better experiences. Also, there is definitely something to do with being able to let go and say that you are not in control of the situation. With breastfeeding you more or less have to let your baby be in control whereas formula feeding is about the mother being in control. I am convinced it is to do with personality types.

LRDTheFeministDragon · 01/08/2011 13:40

boo - yes, I agree it is sad. But I don't think what's saddest is that she doesn't care to say 'I tried and failed' - what is really sad is that she didn't get any support. I don't know if there was a way, she was certainly told it was impossible, but from comments on here I am now a bit sceptical about whether that is true, and if it is, they could have told her sooner instead of letting her feel awful!

RitaMorgan · 01/08/2011 13:44

It is normally possible to bf with inverted nipples I believe - you might need to use a pump or special nipple-drawing-out device before latching the baby on.

Booboostoo · 01/08/2011 13:45

AlpinePony it's interesting how there isn't one formula for doing things right. I had an ELCS, which was a great experience, but which many people think is not natural, I do bf but it was tough going for a while and I don't for the moment want a nanny as I would rather have a go at it myself. I don't think though that any of those choices is something I have to apologise for, nor does anyone who makes the complete opposite choices! It's sad how we are sometimes the harshest critics of others of our own sex.

superjobee that's quite an important point. If women feel criticised and don't ask for advice they may find it harded to switch from bf to formula.

AliGrylls those are extremely interesting points! I suppose each person's experience is coloured by how they view themselves... I will take my tits out for anyone Grin so that aspect of bf didn't bother me, and I am used to catering to the needs of 9 animals so one more needing constant feeding didn't seem so odd (although one baby equals about three puppies in terms of sleep deprivation!!).

OP posts:
HandMini · 01/08/2011 13:55

Slightly different take on the debate: I am a first time mother, currently exclusively BF (8 weeks) and have found it very very tough, much more so than I expected - sore nipples, awkward latch, embarassment at doing it in public and having breasts exposed to HCPs etc, leaking and definitely the lack of control over timings. I am not naturally a relaxed go-with-the-flow type.

I dont know how honest about all these feelings I should be with my pregnant friends.

I do find it difficult to answer the question myself of if (hopefully when) I do it all again, would I BF or go straight to formula?

superjobee · 01/08/2011 13:55

after seeing the ppl on here saying they dont know where to turn and how useless their mw or hv is i dread to think what would have happened with me i was only 17 when we had DD. luckily i was well read obsessive some might say on all practical baby things so knew the risks of mastitis etc i didnt realise how much the emotional side would come into play tho. i think i'll decide once DS is actually here in my arms and rooting.

so many of my friends havent even bothered to try they just went straight to formula and it makes me sad. i know BF is better for the baby but at the end of the day as the BF/FF argument always goes 'whats best for mum is best for baby' and i grudgingly (for myself) agree.

Linnet · 01/08/2011 14:06

My friend has just had her first and she didn't even try breast feeding. Her reasons were that she'd had a horrible pregnancy, suffered from start to finish, she was then induced and rushed off for an emergency touch and go cesearean. The fact that it was all finally over and done with was enough for her and she just wanted to get back to normal as quickly as possible and have her body back.

i tentatively suggested that she maybe give it a try just to see but she refused point blank. I can kind of see her point, I know where she's coming from in that she wanted to get back to normal, but thought she might have tried it. Each to their own I say. She's has been free to leave her baby with her mum or her dh to go out places alone, I fed both of my dd's and took them everywhere with me. I think that may also have had something to do with her decision.

seoladair · 01/08/2011 14:30

What do people think of this article?
www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/jan/14/six-months-breastfeeding-babies-scientists

Six months of breastmilk alone is too long and could harm babies, scientists now sayFresh review of evidence contradicts WHO breastfeeding guidance leaving campaigners outraged and mothers baffled

Sarah Boseley The Guardian, Friday 14 January 2011 Article history
Failing to start weaning babies on to solids before six months old could be harmful, according to some scientists. Photograph: Rex Features

To the outrage of breastfeeding campaigners and probably the utter confusion of most women with small babies, scientists today advocate rewriting the rulebook to drop the current guidance that says mothers should breastfeed exclusively for the first six months of their child's life.

It was 2001 when the World Health Organisation announced that exclusive breastfeeding for six months was best for babies. In 2003 the then Labour minister Hazel Blears adopted the recommendation for the UK.

But today, in the British Medical Journal, doctors from several leading child health institutes say the evidence for the WHO guidance was never there ? and that failing to start weaning babies on to solids before six months could be harmful.

Mary Fewtrell, from the childhood nutrition research centre at the University College London Institute of Child Health, said probably no babies had been harmed, as few mothers in the UK manage to stick to six months of nothing but breastmilk with a baby who by then is taking an interest in the contents of people's plates. "About 1% were doing it in 2005, although probably more now," she said. "But only about 20% breastfeed at all at six months. It is not a common behaviour."

Fewtrell and colleagues from Edinburgh and Birmingham universities say that is partly because mothers often find by that stage that their babies want more. Their trawl of the existing evidence shows, they say, that babies also need more.

According to the paper, failing to start weaning on to solid food (they are not talking about formula milk) before six months appears to raise risks for the baby. Evidence that was unavailable when the WHO made its recommendation suggests they have a greater chance of iron deficiency anaemia, "known to be linked to irreversible adverse mental, motor or psychosocial outcomes." Unlike the US, the UK does not have a screening programme for iron deficiencies in children, so it is impossible to say if there have been problems.

Other evidence, they say, suggests that babies not introduced to certain foods earlier than six months may have a higher incidence of food allergies. "Countries where peanuts are used as weaning foods have low incidences of peanut allergy (Israel, for example)," they write.

The third potential issue is coeliac disease. The numbers of children developing coeliac disease rose in Sweden following advice to mothers to delay the introduction of gluten into their child's diet until after six months, and it fell when the recommendation reverted to four months.

Fewtrell said she supported the WHO recommendation, but argued that it needed to be interpreted differently in different countries. Exclusive breastfeeding protects against infections, which is critical in developing countries, but less important in the UK where hygiene and sanitation are better. "There's only one piece of evidence relevant to babies in the UK ? a slightly decreased risk of gastroenteritis," she said.

She said she hoped the government's scientific advisory committee on nutrition, which is looking at infant feeding, would take on board their findings.

Advocates of breastfeeding point out that the recommendation not to wean until six months has substantially cut the numbers of women who introduced solids before four months ? from 85% in 2000 to 51% in 2005. But Fewtrell said that was no argument for misleading women.

"I really want to emphasise we are not in any way anti-breastfeeding, particularly in the long term," she said. "We're extremely pro-breastfeeding. We would go along with recommendations to breastfeed exclusively for four months."

Pro-breastfeeding groups were dismayed, however. Unicef pointed out that it did not contain any new experimental data and said the UK policy had been a success as greater numbers of mothers now delayed the introduction of solids until after four months. It added that most early foods "are not nutrient dense and do not provide quantities of iron and zinc".

Patti Rundall, of the campaigning group Baby Milk Action, said moving to weaning at four months would be "a regrettable and backward step that is out of step with current scientific thinking".

She accused the paper's authors of taking funds from the babyfood industry. The paper acknowledges that three of the four authors "have performed consultancy work and/or received research funding from companies manufacturing infant formulas and baby foods within the past three years".

Fewtrell was unapologetic. Ideally, mothers would give their babies fresh food, including meat, for iron. "This is not an attempt to promote commercial weaning foods," she said. "We are a university and Medical Research Council-funded group." They had advised babyfood manufacturers because they were specialists in child nutrition, she said.

"Some organisations are all too happy to quote our data when it supports breastfeeding," she said. "They are choosy in what they will allow."

Justine Roberts of Mumsnet said women needed clarity after at least three changes of policy in her own child-rearing years. "A lot of mums work quite hard, and it is quite hard work trying to exclusively breasfeed for six months without introducing solids. If that turns out not to be correct advice, we'd like to know as soon as possible."

The Department of Health said it would review the research, adding: "Breast milk provides all the nutrients a baby needs up to six months of age and we recommend exclusive breastfeeding for this time." "Mothers who wish to introduce solids before six months should always talk to health professionals first."

? This article was amended on 14 January 2011. In the original, the heading said: Six months of breastfeeding alone could harm babies, scientists now say. This has been expanded to include the full wording that appeared in the Guardian newspaper.

worldgonecrazy · 01/08/2011 14:42

seoladair there has been quite a lot of discussion about that article and the consensus is that it was a great deal of very poor reporting. What some scientists said is that the evidence may need relooking at. This was actually a meta-study, i.e. a study that just looked at other findings, rather than any new research. What it said was that some babies may benefit from earlier weaning than 6 months.

Here's a link to the article - the comments make interesting reading: Article Here

seoladair · 01/08/2011 14:57

worldgonecrazy - thank you for the excellent link. I just browsed just now, but will study it properly later.

nickelbabe · 01/08/2011 15:00

I am reading the whole thread in a minute.

my big sister didn't attempt to BF either of hers - mainly because she didn't want to. no other reason, but I think she also found it a bit weird.
she did say to me that although she didn't want to do it, that while she was doing her skin to skin, if her DS had tried to take milk from her nipple, that she would have done BFing properly. she said that she really didn't want him to, and she was really relieved that he didn't, but she would have done it if he had.

usualsuspect · 01/08/2011 15:03

Because they don't want to ,maybe

tiktok · 01/08/2011 15:11

It's disingenous to say 'because they don't want to'.

Disingenous because that is obviously one reason....but the question instantly arises why don't they want to? It's intrusive to ask individuals out of the blue, of course, but if we think, as a society, that breastfeeding makes a difference to health, then it's perfectly legitimate to explore how to make it easier and more comfortable for women to make this choice.

Also, 'not wanting to' is actually not a reason, for some. Some women desperately want to, or they would like to try, or they're curious to give it a go; some recognise it as an experience that might bring them a sense of well-being, and achievement. But they still don't do it, often because it does not feel normal to them, because no one close to them has tried it. They may also be put off trying by people making negative comments.

So the answer 'cos they don't want to' has to be the least satisfactory answer of all :)

Fayrazzled · 01/08/2011 15:13

I'm was a middle class professional, Oxbridge educated- according to all the stereotypes I would have been a breastfeeder. There is a high incidence of breastfeeding where I live- formula feeders are definitely in the minority.

I didn't breastfeed either of my children. Why? I had no experience of breast-feeding and my mother has always been very uncomfortable around it- she clearly finds it abhorrent. I grew up in a prudish family; I felt sick to the stomach at the thought of getting my breasts out to feed. No way could I have breast fed in front of anyone other my H. Formula feeding seemed easier. I was the first of my friends to have a baby and had no experience of breastfeeding.

In some ways I do regret my decision now. I'm not stupid- I know breast is best. I wish I could have been strong enough to put aside my feelings to give my children the best start. But I just couldn't do it. Perhaps I am too selfish not to have done so. Breastfeeding was just so far outside my sphere of experience though. And actually, I was always ashamed to FF in public- I hated getting a bottle out and knowing people were judging me. I lied to friends saying I had had difficulties breastfeeding my son- I made out I was a failed breastfeeder rather than never having tried it.

Ironically, 6 years on having met and had lots of friends breastfeed now I think I would be able to give it a go. I feel jealous when friends now breastfeed their babies as I wish I had had that support first time round. But I'm won't be having another baby, and actually since my second baby I have had to take three types of medication that aren't compatible with breastfeeding- if I were to have another baby I wouldn't be able to breastfeed for this reason.

usualsuspect · 01/08/2011 15:18

well it was my reason Smile

no one elses buisness really

PeterSpanswick · 01/08/2011 15:18

Because after ten long months of being an incubator they are keen for their bodies to be their own once more? Can't say I'm looking forward to breastfeeding!

Catsu · 01/08/2011 15:21

I intended to with my first but had a v traumatic birth, he was injured during it and I was pretty unwell and I knew as soon as he was born that bf'ing was one extra thing I just couldn't deal with.
I couldn't bear even the thought of an extra challenge to face. Only so much stress at one time that I could handle!
I did bf dc2

usualsuspect · 01/08/2011 15:23

I never felt the need to justify my parenting choices to anyone though tbh

HappyMummyOfOne · 01/08/2011 15:29

I never tried to BF, I knew from the start I intended to FF and did just that. No main reason, I just didnt like the thought of BF.

As long as babies are being fed, who cares Smile

saidthespiderwithahorridsmile · 01/08/2011 15:32

So HappyMum, how does this kind of debate make you feel? Do you feel guilty about the benefits your baby didn't get from your breastmilk? Or does it not bother you at all?

I am on the fence here btw - no axe to grind. Just interested.

startail · 01/08/2011 15:41

Because they are bonkers, And no one has explained in words of one syllable that two weeks of hell is a small price to pay for the many months or years (if you are DD2) of saved hassle that BF gives you.
FF is a total faff and it's expensive and it's a logistical nightmare every time you want to leave the house.
I've done both and its simply no contest breast is bestGrin

startail · 01/08/2011 15:43

Oh and I don't feel in the least guilty I didn't BF DD1. We tried, we failed we made the best of it and were both the happier for it, but not to try at all- madness!

AlpinePony · 01/08/2011 15:45

Expensive startail? :( I'm really sorry you felt it was expensive - could you not have got some help from the benefits office if it was that bad? I didn't realise 8 quid a week or so could tip someone over the edge. 'Course it's funny - I think bf'ing is expensive what with "industry standard" "recommended everywhere" medela pumps and bf clothing, etc. Swings and roundabouts, non?

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