Please help. I think i have ruined my chances of BFing my daughter :(

[rocketleaf]

Its a bit of a long story but basically I couldn't get my daughter to latch on after initially suckling after birth so thr MWs at the hospital had me extress colostrum to feed her with syringe. After that she was really sleepy and we couldnt get her to latch on. I had about 6 different people tell me different ways and things (for instance one said my nips are flat and use guards, another poo pooed that) but no one actually got her to suckle. In a weak moment i asked them to give her some formula by cup just so i could get some sleep as hadnt slept in about 4 days. In the end before they would discharge us they made us agree to do this complicated feed/give expressed/top up with formula routine every 3 hours, which stupidly we followed for about 3 feeds on wed night. I was really unhappy about this as i didnt want to bottle feed her let alone with formula ut they had really knocked my confidence and implied she would starve otherwise although i was still able to express colostrum.
When I saw my community MW yesterday morning she said it was bollocks and then SUre start came and they gave the same advice re positioning etc that i already l knew but doesnt seem to work with my DD and told me just to go with skin to skin and feed and combo express. All the stuff I thought I knew before going into hospital anyway.
Yesterday I decided it would be breast only, she started sucking and my milk came through so i thought we had turned a corner but then she became really rough, chomping on my nipples and really hurting and getting really distressed, coming off and on or stopping feeding. I have read loads of stuff on the internet and tried relatching and relatching again and again but still cant seem to get it right. Like she was really hungry and wanting to suck my not getting enough if any. I was still able to express some milk yesterday but we had to feed her all of that just toget her to sleep. It got to the point when she screamed everytime i took her near the breast. Last night we tried a bath together and that really helped her to calm down with me although i didnt really get her to feed agian. But it also woke her up so we had togove her all the xpressed milk and she still wouldnt sleep.

I have just got up because my breast were engorged again and my husband had brought her to bed after staying up with her to let me sleep. I have only managed to expressa 20 ml and its all ground to a halt. Breasts still engorged and nipples are wrecked. I dont know what I am gong to do when she wakes up wanting to be fed.

I never kidded myself that it would be easy but now am really worried that i have screwed up my milk supply, turned her into a ravenous beast with those few formula feeds and no idea what i am going to do when she wakes next.

I also dont think the pump i have is very good (avent) as it makes my nips bleed but maybe this is normal?

I know damn well that me being up at 4.30 stressing about this is not going to help but I can't help it. :( I really dont want to resort to formula but also am worried as she is only 5 days old that she will loose weight or be really stressed and over hungry. Sorry this is a bit incoherent too. Please help.

An electric double pump really makes a difference if you're trying to up/maintain supply and/or supply top-ups. I borrowed an Ameda Lactaline when DD was primarily on bottle feeds and it saved my supply...and my sanity as it meant pumping took less than half the time!

If your boobs are dripping before a feed, are you sure you're not leaking milk straight into your LO's mouth without any sucking?

No change here really. No further with getting her to latch on. I don't know if i am giving up too easily each time but after trying to get her on for about 15 mins switching sides countless times i give up and give her the expressed milk as its just too distressing to see her get so upset.

The HV has suggested we go to the Infant Feeding Clinic at the hospital tomorrow but that again will mean missing out on expressing time. sigh. she also said if it looks like she going to go another 7 days without pooing then we need to get her 'seen" again which actually i am going to ignore as that would mean the GP on friday (last poo was sunday) or a&e again on sunday. Will just have to wait til Monday if nothing happens as not prepared to spend another sunday in A&E (for no reason)

I am definitely considering hiring a pump from the NCT if this carries on, I just dont know if it will help.

Did you try putting her back on the breast after just a bit of expressed feed? And biological nurturing? Sorry all this has probably been suggested before.

You are not giving up - you are being sensible and making sure she gets her food as well as giving her the chance to latch.

Keep at it, it can take a while for some of them to realise what those things are for...

Rocketleaf, I don't have anything to add to what the others have said but I had the same experience and my advice was going to be what Cristiane said at the beginning.

Take your time, and persevere if you have the strength and it will pay off. Expect it to take a while to come together (40days say some), you are both still learning! (It is really tough to start with, but noone every tells you that in advance.)

I have bought some nipple shields. She has latched on straight away but I am pretty sure that she us still nipple feeding as although it's not painful I can feel that the sucking is very similar to last week prior to the tie snip. I am not sure if this will do more harm than good and doubt she is actually getting much milk so not sure what this will mean for topping up with EBM. but it's lovely to have her at my boob for a bit.

Well, it's good she's trying to latch on to the shield rocket.

Now at least you can try and improve that latch so that she is getting milk well. I can't remember if you've seen this but I'll post it again to save me scrolling back/

It's the exaggerated latch technique on page 9 that might be useful.

would it be worth thinking about another visit from a bfc rocket? great news that she is trying to latch on with the shield though i think.

A double pump might be a good idea, even it all it does is cut down expressing time! But I have one for expressing at work (which is why the one I sent you isn?t being used) and it really is so much better.

Hi Rocketleaf,
Please try not to worry too much - breastfeeding can be really really really difficult to start with. It took me 3 months to get established (had to express and give bottles to start with alongside trying to breastfeed - so I know it is a nightmare). The best advice I got (having spoken to a few lactation consultants) was to make sure she is getting enough food (which you are), keep your supply going with expressing, and have lots if skin to skin, chill out cuddling and enjoy her, try not to stress too much (difficult) and keep trying. If you manage all that you will doubtless get there (my daughter is nearly one now and still bf). Also check out biological nurturing if you haven't already, and get some professional advice from those helplines.

You should not be bleeding or in pain from expressing - nor should you be expressing for hours. You'll get too knackered, and hurt yourself. You can hire hospital grade pumps that are brilliant from medala - then get your midwife to help you use it. Mine was a lifesaver - would not have managed without it.
www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk/Expressing-breastmilk/medela-symphony-hospital-grade-breastpump.htm

I know it sounds incoveivable now (I was in a right old pickle about it 10 months ago) but things really will get better soon.

Good luck! X

Just read your last posts. I would go to the clinic - also you are right not to keep trying when she is upset.

I would go to the clinic and just try to make time for expressing (maybe take a pump and ask for a room to pump in?).

Have you tried offering a bit of EBM before a feed session to take the edge of LO's hunger? We had to do this with DD - she'd have 10-20ml, then we'd try to latch and feed, then she'd have the rest of her top-up and I'd pump.

A double pump makes a huge difference.

Hope you're ok today Rocket, and that babyleaf is doing well!

It can be such a hard time in the beginning. You are doing so well! [thumbs up]

Ended up expressing 100 ml in the car on the way home :o And I have ordered a double pump to come tomorrow so hoping that will help. Unfortunately didn't get her latched on at the clinic as she was too wound up and hungry by that point (the timing versus her last feed wasn't ideal) even after giving her 20 ml to take the edge off (thanks japhrimel yup I have been trying this)

The advisor did show me biological nurturing and also a bit if advise re getting her to latch and was also very sympathetic but I got the impression she was less than hopeful we would crack it. But she didn't see babyleaf at her best so I am not giving up yet.

So yes same old sane old really: skin to skin/try to latch/bit of expressed/try to latch/stop if distressed/feed/pump next feed.

She was also weighed again and hasn't really gained much since Sunday but she didn't lose any so that's good.

HV is still jn a tiz over lack of poo so I have promised to take her to the GP on Monday if she hasn't been but my gut instinct (excuse the pun) is that she just has a slow metabolism.

Bryzoan, that's good advice. I think now we are getting into more of a routine and I am coming to terms with the expressing I am hoping I can chill out more. I feel loads happier within myself so hopefully if I relax about it a bit then she will. And if worst case scenario is that she only takes EBM from a bottle then so be it!!

Rocket You are being so bloody brilliant. And God bless you Mumsnetters who have been in a similar place who can give such brill advice.

rocket you are doing brilliantly. I don't think anyone could doubt that you are doing the absolute best for babyrocket.

rocket have you spoken to Ann again? She will give you advice if you need it to try to get the latching sorted out.

Second everyone else on how amazing you're being.

Amen to that.

Sorry that was in response to what boo said about all of you. Not sure what would have happened if it werent for all your support.

I text Ann yesterday but haven't spoken to her as I know how busy she is. I think I'll phone her tomorrow although not sure what she can do on the phone.
A good bit of advice the LC at the hospital gave me was to feed BL in as close to a BFing position as possible. Earlier I wad giving her a bit with the bottle (finally got some calma ones as advised by the lovely drom) and then taking it away and trying to get her latched on. This seems to work a bit as she is already in position near the boob and calmer than being transferred from one position to another. We'll see.

See, each day there is some progress.

It may just be a small step, but it's a step in the right direction.

You're doing great. Don't think about negative HCPs - we had so many people pull faces and even suggest we just give formula or say "I'm not sure how long you can carry on doing this" and we cracked it. What very few people seem to take into account is that - assuming you have stabilised their weight - the baby will be growing and developing all the time. And as they get bigger and more alert, bfing naturally gets easier (until they start wriggling and getting distracted, lol!). So every feed or attempt to feed gets you towards a time when it'll be easier.

Rocketleaf just wanted to say what an inspiration you are! :)
Ds2 is 5 months now and ebf. It hasn't been easy (especially the first 8 weeks) but nowhere near as difficult as it has been for you.
Have nothing useful to add except "good for you!" :) and baby rocket leaf you're a very lucky little girl

I agree with japhrimel. Our HV (and relatives and friends and such) kept saying 'you can't possibly keep that up, why don't you just give him formula instead'. Well I suppose, in truth, we wouldn't have been able to keep it up for much longer. But we didn't need to! Because, as japhrimel said, it does get easier... every day, as baby grows.

Just to echo what japhrimel said, I have a friend who really struggled at first and her DS was fedd with EBM and formula. She at least tried once a day to latch him on, but it never really worked, and then suddenly at 12 weeks they cracked it, still happily feeding at 11m.

Blimey thanks tamdin not sure I feel much like an inspiration but it's lovely of you to say that

Thanks for backing me up wrt HCPs ladies, you start to think maybe you are mad to keep trying, although tbf it's only been one horrible MW who was quite dismissive and lucky for me my freind was round at the time. Both of us agreed she was an annoying cow and DH wanted to chuck her out the house!

Bit disappointed with the electric pump so far, not getting as much as with the hand pump as I can't do compression and after a few minutes the flow stops. Plus it's harder to keep babyleaf close as I dont have a spare hand. But I will persevere with it and hope it gets better.

It's DHs birthday tomorrow, I wish I had had time to get him something special from babyleaf but he'll be lucky if his pressie from me is even wrapped! :-(

Eep right boob is now very sore. I hope its just from overzealous pumping and compressions. :-s

is it actual boob sore? is it red or lumpy?