Please help. I think i have ruined my chances of BFing my daughter :(

[rocketleaf]

Its a bit of a long story but basically I couldn't get my daughter to latch on after initially suckling after birth so thr MWs at the hospital had me extress colostrum to feed her with syringe. After that she was really sleepy and we couldnt get her to latch on. I had about 6 different people tell me different ways and things (for instance one said my nips are flat and use guards, another poo pooed that) but no one actually got her to suckle. In a weak moment i asked them to give her some formula by cup just so i could get some sleep as hadnt slept in about 4 days. In the end before they would discharge us they made us agree to do this complicated feed/give expressed/top up with formula routine every 3 hours, which stupidly we followed for about 3 feeds on wed night. I was really unhappy about this as i didnt want to bottle feed her let alone with formula ut they had really knocked my confidence and implied she would starve otherwise although i was still able to express colostrum.
When I saw my community MW yesterday morning she said it was bollocks and then SUre start came and they gave the same advice re positioning etc that i already l knew but doesnt seem to work with my DD and told me just to go with skin to skin and feed and combo express. All the stuff I thought I knew before going into hospital anyway.
Yesterday I decided it would be breast only, she started sucking and my milk came through so i thought we had turned a corner but then she became really rough, chomping on my nipples and really hurting and getting really distressed, coming off and on or stopping feeding. I have read loads of stuff on the internet and tried relatching and relatching again and again but still cant seem to get it right. Like she was really hungry and wanting to suck my not getting enough if any. I was still able to express some milk yesterday but we had to feed her all of that just toget her to sleep. It got to the point when she screamed everytime i took her near the breast. Last night we tried a bath together and that really helped her to calm down with me although i didnt really get her to feed agian. But it also woke her up so we had togove her all the xpressed milk and she still wouldnt sleep.

I have just got up because my breast were engorged again and my husband had brought her to bed after staying up with her to let me sleep. I have only managed to expressa 20 ml and its all ground to a halt. Breasts still engorged and nipples are wrecked. I dont know what I am gong to do when she wakes up wanting to be fed.

I never kidded myself that it would be easy but now am really worried that i have screwed up my milk supply, turned her into a ravenous beast with those few formula feeds and no idea what i am going to do when she wakes next.

I also dont think the pump i have is very good (avent) as it makes my nips bleed but maybe this is normal?

I know damn well that me being up at 4.30 stressing about this is not going to help but I can't help it. :( I really dont want to resort to formula but also am worried as she is only 5 days old that she will loose weight or be really stressed and over hungry. Sorry this is a bit incoherent too. Please help.

[rocketleaf]

Funny you should say that japhrimel that was exactly my plan (and i knew what you meant!) I have to say I am more worried about finding somewhere to sit although crossed legged on the floor might be alright as it's not as soft as the bed.

Meita, I've found if i rely on pillows for support the latch is worse so have been relying on my back and arm muscles to support her. Lucky she is fairly quick or I'll end up looking like popeye ;-). You are right anyway, feeding her takes priority so stuff everyone else. And I've had that many people poke and prod at my boobs the last few weeks that a few more people catching a glimpse seems unimportant.

[Tamdin]

Hi rocket. Am still following your progress :)
Just wanted to say have a nice afternoon out and to second what everyone else has said about feeding in public. I was a bit worried at the start but have honestly never had a negative comment once (if anything the opposite) and I am permanently armed with a large thin scarf as japhrimel suggested. You become obsessed with them when you're clothes shopping. Some lovely ones around!

[rocketleaf]

I already have quite a few :-) i dont need an excuse to buy more hehe. Anyway she ended up wanting feeding before we left so might be a moot point. We'll see.

[rocketleaf]

Well that went well after a bit of a wobbly start (TB managed to back the car into a wall!) Babyleaf was an angel, and we did a feed sat on blankies in the middle of the field. It was actually one of the better feeds we've done from a pain POV and I didnt even need the scarf as I was wearing enough layers to cover my modesty No one batted an eyelid and all my friends are super supportive anyway.

That said I think I am going to have to keep feeding her from the right side despite the pain rather than sticking to expressing as the soreness actually got worse and very full yesterday. I guess its becuase its not as efficient as her suckling. So I've fed her from both sides today as even though it hurts at the time it empties the breast better. Its weird as it doesnt feel lumpy like blocked ducts and is not red on the outside like mastitis, it just feels a bit bruised and gets sore over night when i go longer between feeds and am expressing more. I have been very careful not to be over vigorous with compressing/massage. I guess it might just be that the latch isnt as good that side so its not getting emptied properly?

I am a bit confused about how often I should be expressing now. If she feeds from the boob and doesnt take a top up do I not bother? And then only express if I've bottle fed? In the night when i wanted to bottle feed I have started to express first and give her that as its fresher and easier than warming up stuff from the fridge. I think I might end up having to throw some of the fridged stuff away as it'll go 'out of date' and I dont want to lose track.

[Tamdin]

morning rocket. great news that the day went well:)
I'm no help on the expressing logistics! I have a good friend who was the express queen though and i know you can definitely freeze it. Sorry you probably already realise that, it was just your comment about having to throw it out made me wonder. She used to have a small factory going on in her freezer with dates written on lots of little pots. x

[crikeybadger]

Hi rocket,
Sounds like you had a good afternoon (except for the car and the wall incident ).

Regarding the expressing- breastmilk will keep for max 8 days in a fridge of between 0 and 4 degrees. (this is from the breastfeeding network site )

I guess you're using a bottle of ebm in the night as it's still painful right?

Do you think she still needs the top ups in the day if weight gain is good? As you say, she's better at 'emptying' the breast than the pump.

have a good day x

[Meita]

Yep, me too. Filled the freezer with pots, each with its little lable. Ended up having to throw lots of it away anyway (as DS wouldn't take the bottle anymore, and ended up doing BLW so didn't use it for cooking purees either).

I kind of expressed just a little bit more than DS was taking. That way I gradually built up a stock, with the idea of allowing me to go out sometime, or to be able to pump&dump for a while if need be - or even to have something to cook babyfood with once we got to weaning. I think it's great if you can express then immediately feed the EBM, nothing wrong with that (though didn't work for me). Oh and the little pots came in handy later on with weaning.

I'd say it's perfectly fine not to bother with expressing when she doesn't take a top-up. That way your body gets used to producing the right amount of milk, i.e. the amount she needs and is taking, rather than more or less. However if you produce exactly what she needs, you won't be able to build up a stock in reserve (or not as easily). It's really up to you.

Can't help with the soreness. Hope it eases up soon! But glad that feeding-in-public went well :) I never used scarves, DS protested too much. But I was comfortable enough just by using bf tops.

[rocketleaf]

Thanks tamdin yes i knew about freezing because my cousin had a bit of an over supply problem, freezer full of milk and was even thinking about donating it! I was even contemplating getting her to courier me some in the worst moments a few weeks ago :o

crikey I am not really topping up during the day now, and am only expressing the right breast if she doesn't take it when offered as otherwise it gets bit painfully full. (like last feed half an hour on and off, prob 20 mins effective feeding on the left so not interested in the right) I've then been adding that to the stock in the fridge or giving it to her a bit later on, although think I am going to stop that and rather offer the breast instead. Hmm looks like i need to invest in some little pots or maybe those freezer bags, shame we have such a tiny freezer!

And then yes at night I am giving a bottle for one of the feeds just to give me a break as by the end of the day its got a bit sore. Also rather than fuss about at the breast I can express quite quickly while she is waking up and then bottle feed. Seems a bit less stressful for both of us in the middle of the night. That also might stop as things get easier. Left boob seems to be relatively pain free now most of the time, more uncomfortable/stingy after the initial latch on then easing off, which is great!! Although as Mieta said it probably wouldn't be a bad thing to keep her used to a bottle and with a bit of extra supply for later on down the line, I am just going to see what happens wrtt. I like the idea of switching the expressed bottle to the bed time one so that TB can stay involved with the feeding but need to discuss that with him.

Thanks very much to you all for sticking with me through this, I very much appreciate all this advice and experience that I am getting! its invaluable!

[Cosmosis]

rocket you are doing sooo well!

det freezer bags and put them in lying down, they take up much less space that way.

[rocketleaf]

8 lb!! We have been discharged from MW care :-) Well I think it's clear that she is getting the milk down fine including the good stuff and it's just a question of my comfort. For some reason it's much more painful at night not sure if that's a psychological or a posture thing. Might be I need to express a bit first to make it easier to latch as well.
Freezer bags it is! Do you really need special ones or will any plastic bag do?

[Cosmosis]

Well done!! It?s clear at least that you have no supply issues so that?s one major hurdle over with re it being harder at night, I think that?s probably normal ? I found it harder at night and I had no real issues. I think it?s tiredness / posture / dark etc etc

I just got the tesco own bm freezer bags, or boots do them too, I would get the bm ones as they have markers for amount and also space to write the date on, which is handy when you have a freezer full!

[Medee]

Fantastic Rocket!

[crikeybadger]

Hey 8lb, hurray!

Must be so nice to have been discharged from mw care- another milestone reached.

[Meita]

Yay!
In a few months down the line you'll probably be back here, doling out advice to new mums going through a tough patch :)

Keep up the good work, and take care!

[macaroonmum]

Brilliant news Rocky

I think what the others said about not expressing all the time if she's feeding well enough from the boob. Best to express in the morning though, when your supply is better and keep that for the evening/night feeds (and you won't be as sore).
I'm not sure why the right breast would be giving you more problems but I know that some babies feed better from one breast and sometimes even refuse the other one even if starving - could be a physical problem like fewer functioning ducts on that side or something (I'm sure I read something about that on Kellymom!).
Go babyleaf!

[MadameBoo]

:o :o :o :o :o :o

[Tamdin]

:)

[rocketleaf]

Mieta, I really hope so! If I can help someone half us much as you guys have helped me then I'll be happy. Funny as the MW said something very similar not long ago.

Macca, I think it was the fact that I wasnt feeding her from it so the duct wernt draining as well, now I have been getting her on that side as well, the breast tissue is much better although the nipple is still sore and it hurts more to feed her that side. I think its to do with not being very symmetrical and also being right handed. She just must latch better on the left. Anyway sure it'll get better with time.

I ended up breast feeding all through the night last night and having to throw the breast milk away (it went a bit pongy as had been left out all night) so I am definitely going to get some freezer bags. :o

[LadyGoneGaga]

You have done soo, so well, Rocket . And she's doing amazingly too.

MiniG used to prefer the left boob. He would feed ok from the other but it seemed comfier for both of us to use the left so one prob got used slightly more than the other .

Freezer bags are the way forwards. Although I also had to chuck loads out when MiniG started refusing bottles. And I found mornings best time to express (after his first feed) when I was fuller. Also I had to be able to see him, smell something of his or look at a picture of him to get the let down going.

[Cosmosis]

Prefering one is really really common. I used to put Artie in the rugby hold on the rhs so he would be conned into thinking it was the left one. Even now he much prefers the left and I am a little lopsided as a result!

Good advice re getting let down going ? I use videos on my phone now I?m at work.

[rocketleaf]

Actually the MW that discharged me said she did exactly that cossie as her boy had trouble on the rhs and she found it very painful. It was nice to hear that someone who should know all the theory still struggled although havent tried it that way myself yet.

Not doing too badly today although had a bit of a crappy night mainly because I think I was cutting the feeds short so she kept waking up. I might try topping up with the bottle again in the night just to see if she sleeps a bit longer again. I also managed some lying down this avo as was feeling pretty tired. Its not comfy enough yet for me to sleep but at least we could both just drift off afterwards. I think I'll try again in the night.

[MuthaFunky]

Hope I haven't copied anything else others have already covered but in addition to getting support from the numbers above, maybe you could try hand expressing off a little bit before you feed to remove the engorgement and then lay down and feed until you guys have the latch thing nailed.

Feeding like that side by side is much easier and it also is really helpful when you need to catch up on some sleep!

Lots of love and luck in your BF journey together sweetie, don't give up - you know it's even possible to relactate when supplies have dwindled in some cases, so relax and try having some booby-cuddles and skin to skin in bed and see what happens (maybe even after a bath..?).

L xx

[rocketleaf]

muthafunky lots of that advice has been given already and was followed but thanks anyway. I have only just started trying feeding lying down. We did try it in the first week but that was before the TT snip and not too successful at the tine. Much better now.

Have just reread my first post and can't believe that was 4 weeks ago! Bit about how freaked out I was really although it was a completely crazy time. Such a change in 4 weeks and such a lot of support and good advice.

Happy 1 month birthday BabyLeaf :-)

[Cosmosis]

wow! happy 1 month to you all

[MadameBoo]

Newborns are fucking hard work. And I bet only 0.5% of the ten squillion parents on this site would disagree.