Mothercrae has tage one aptamil cartons at half price because they are close to expiry date.....

[popsycal]

Is this breaching the whatsit before I write in and get on my high horse?

TIA

Quote from QoQs "Surely if we concentrated on WHY these babies die (not because of formula but because of the dirty water.....if they can even get hold of the stuff - notoriously difficult to get hold of in some places) and put the resources into providing wells (for clean water), education (so the mothers can read the instructions properly), and help to provide these people with sustainable incomes (small scale farming being the most common) rather than campaigning against advertising for breastfeeding"

Are you actually suggesting that the motivation for the above changes in developing countries should be so the women have the option to feed their babies formula??????

Sorry - did not intend to join in this thread but could not let that go.

Quote from QoQs "Surely if we concentrated on WHY these babies die (not because of formula but because of the dirty water.....if they can even get hold of the stuff - notoriously difficult to get hold of in some places) and put the resources into providing wells (for clean water), education (so the mothers can read the instructions properly), and help to provide these people with sustainable incomes (small scale farming being the most common) rather than campaigning against advertising for breastfeeding"

Are you actually suggesting that the motivation for the above changes in developing countries should be so the women have the option to feed their babies formula??????

Sorry - did not intend to join in this thread but could not let that go.

I feel very sad for women who feel badly let down and disappointed by breastfeeding that didn't work out.

The woman in the ST article could very likely have breastfed - anyne who knows about bf can see she had rubbish support, both emotional and practical. 'Lazy feeder'?? - my a*.

Nowhere in the article does she indicate she has had any criticism or comments for bottle feeding.

She is still misinformed:

'[bottle feeding meant] I could reclaim my breasts and keep them neatly away in an attractive bra, rather than constantly hanging them out to air in the hope that my nipples might heal.'

This isn't the way to heal nipples.

'Breast-feeding should be applauded, but that does not mean bottle-feeding should be hissed and booed down.' she says....without ever indicating anyone had been negative to her, still less hissing her or booing her.

This makes me quite cross. I do understand how awful women feel when they don't breastfeed, often after a really horrible time trying. But why feel that everyone who does breastfeed is in some sort of conspiracy to make you feel like crap?

Or rather - I do understand how mothers can feel this, but I ask them to think logically, and not (for goodness sake) write about this imagined 'hissing and booing' in a paper.

Are we really going to ask breastfeeding mothers not to do it in public in case we make bottle feeders feel bad?

Bloody hell.

"I doubt anyone without issues would fake a breastfeed" Me neither, but I don't think it implies she was traumatised by bf-ing. Personally, from this limited information alone, I think it sounds more like she's so traumatised by bottlefeeding that she has to pretend she's not.

Isn't the ST woman's "booing and hissing" much the same as the "booing and hissing" feared by mothers who want to bf in public though? 99% of the time, there simply isn't any but there will always be 1% on both sides of the fence who make it seem far more widespread than it really is.

Woah - Just read that Sunday Times article. It is so negative towards breastfeeding. I wonder how someone can have such a turn around of feeling - from wanting to breastfeed to describing it and those who do it in such negative terms. It reads worse than any of the (negative) Aptamil marketing leaflets I've recently seen

I can understand how the woman might have felt out of place whipping out her bottle of formula whilst all these women she'd never met before were breastfeeding. When you're a new mother and hoping to meet other new mothers you hope to have things in common. I've felt out of place being the only cloth nappy user and instead of proudly changing my baby's nappy, I have discreetly changed it as I did not want to prompt a conversation about cloth nappy Vs disposable use with people I barely knew.

The difference between feeling uncomfortable bottle feeding in public and uncomfortable breastfeeding in public is that the latter makes some people choose formula feeding. I've never heard of anyone chossing to breastfeed because they would be too embarrassed to bottle feed in public.

I am certain she is deeply, deeply affected by bottle feeding, Soup. It's not the breastfeeding that 'got' to her, but the bottle feeding.

She is in a dreadful state - but can't admit it, because she is aware her baby is fine, and thriving, and it doesn't make 'sense' to still have an issue with how the baby is fed. Hence the long list of supposed advantages to the bottle (means you can wear a nice bra and don't have your nippples hanging out - perlease! Like breastfeeders only wear manky ol' grey things - that really is just me ;) - and go round with everything on show) none of which stands up to much scrutiny.

In addition, I am irritated by the personal leading to all sorts of conclusions about what life is like everywhere else. There are many, many parts of the UK where you would see pigs fly more often than you'd see a woman bf.

Where was this article? I get the ST and didn't see it. Then again, most of it is unread in the corner at the mo.

thanks pb was just about to search for that, you saved me the trouble.

"I had expected to feel more embarrassed whipping out my breast than brandishing a bottle in public. In fact, the opposite was true."

If this was her "first effort at public parenting" then how can she know? She might assume that, because the others look comfortable in this instance, that they always have, but I have found it has taken months for me to feel confident enough to bf in somewhere like Starbucks. Out in the park, yes, did that straight away and all over the place, but somehow it was not so easy in a cafe etc. I have encountered no negative comments, just the odd look from people who maybe haven't seen it happening before. I know I hadn't... but had I? I imagine that you really have to be looking to tell whether it's just a cuddle or a bf, apart from when the baby is making a lot of noise, pulling your top up etc, which my DD seems to do a lot of atm LOL!

Many of her points are odd - like others have said - "food anxiety" wtf? However, I have felt funny about bottlefeeding in public - I wanted to say to people, it is breastmilk, by the way! But maybe that is different anyway somehow - I dunno. And certainly this is me making myself feel like this, not anyone else.

Anyone medical around? Yellow and floppy and vomiting (violently) = lazy sucker?

I guess Yellow and sleepy = jaundiced which comes from not feeding effectively in the early days = can't be ar$ed to suck (in the absence of any other reason)?

Racers - I can spot ebm in a bottle at 20 paces {grin} Not that I am looking for a specific reason or even care what's in the bottle. It just saddens me to realise what useless skills I now exhibit in my life

thanks soupy and lol at skills i'm sure i must have developed some but can't think of any atm!

The writer's baby was jaundiced and dehydrated - the result of not feeding effectively over the three-four days she was in hospital. The puking up of the first oz of ebm in hospital (when she was readmitted) could be a result of the tube feeding.
Nothing to do with lazy feeder - the maternity unit has not only failed to spot this baby and mother were not bf effectively, but sent her home...and then when the baby is so ill she needs hospital treatment, the doctor blames the baby for being lazy.

The baby rejected the breast after all this messing about (needles, syringe feeding, tube feeding) which is what happens - babies who have a bad experience feeding have no way of expressing this except by one of two things: arching their backs, stiffening and screaming when they are brought to the breast, or else 'tuning out' and falling asleep as soon as they are in a bf position. This baby did the second. With skin to skin care, patience, time and a lot of expressing, this baby could have come back to the breast. But no one will have suggested this to the mother, and she may have felt so demoralised and rejected, she may not have wanted to persevere.

The answer is not to stop informing people that breastfeeding is a good thing, or to feel embarrassed about bf in public, but for the health service to get its arse into gear and combine information about the impact on health of bf alongside effective and responsive help when it goes wrong, and alongside the knowledge of how to spot ineffective bf.

The one postive thing about the article is that she did state as her first learning point in "5 REASONS NOT TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT BOTTLE-FEEDING.......

1 A new mother is a novice, and if the experts don?t teach her how to breast-feed properly, then they are the ones who have failed. "

I think that pretty much summarises the point that Titok was making!

PS..... and I speak as a mother of a baby wo was a breast refuser, a "lazy feeder", who became jaundiced and sleepy, didn't gain weight - but who had fantastic support from the hospital and its breast feeding counsellors, and even when my ds was checked out by the consultant paediatrican, continued to receice full support in my decision to continue to b/f.

I fed for 13 months !

apologies for my last post!
Didn't mean it at all the way it came out! Hadnt read the article either and thought the idea of pretending to bf a bit funny considering the fuuny looks I've gotten in cafes for bf! Don't think I'd pretend to do it in a million years!

I knew I'd regret clicking the link to that article.

I just can't be arsed to write any more about it. What else is there to say? Women who don't breastfeed for whatever reason - fine. Just don't go on about being "made to feel guilty". Women who do breastfeed. Fine. Just don't go on about it, full stop, in case you make anyone feel guilty. OK? Sorted.

cant be bothered to look through all this, but did pops get a reply at all?

Not yet, Misdee.

No, she hasn't! Or hadn't last I heard!

not yet....
am phonig tomorroow iof i get a chance.
sryy
boyt typing
expressing with hand pump and typ[ing i like rubbing your tummy and pastting your head