Why is MN carrying breastpump ads now?

[Brollyflower]

Anyone else think this is a bit odd? Especially as it's promoting the brand name of a well known nipple cream too...

And it has nothing to do with whether women use formula or not!

I don't like seeing unecessary products promoted to breastfeeding mums

Well for me, a breast pump was very necessary, because my milk wouldn't come in & dd was losing weight!!

i assume what the OP means is that it's not necessary to buy these things before you know if you will need them or not. of course you can say that about a lot of baby stuff, and we do say that on here a lot.

please don't let's anyone get upset by the OP's post, she is making an interesting point (even if i happen to think a redundant one).

OP, I largely agree with you, and I think you've been given a hard time here.

I do have a problem with breastpump advertising suggesting that pumping is quick/easy/convenient/preferable to breastfeeding (to spare the blushes of the anyone who might see a mother feeding in public). I also have a problem with the suggestion that when you're having problems breastfeeding, it's a good idea to turn to a breastpump. I am not suggesting that pumps are never helpful or that they have no place in solving breastfeeding problems. But I cannot be the only person who has seen this scenario fairly frequently - mother of newborn is struggling to breastfeed - she has sore nipples. On the advice of her mum/mw/whoever, she gets out her breastpump and expresses milk for a few days to give her nipples a rest and a chance to heal. After a few days, her nipples have healed so she puts the baby back to the breast. This makes her nipples sore, so the mother decides to continue expressing and bottlefeeding. Expressing is hard work though, especially when you're trying to build up a milk supply for a new baby, and the mother moves onto formula sooner than she wanted to.

Now I'm not saying that the mother shouldn't have the free choice to express milk and bottlefeed, or to give her baby formula, but she probably really wanted to breastfeed (given that she battled on for so long), and with some skilled intervention in the first few days, she could well have gone on to breastfeed with no problems.

So that is my main problem with the advertising of breastpumps - that it can encourage a mother to turn to a pump to solve her breastfeeding difficulties, rather than to someone trained in breastfeeding support.

Why is everyone getting so irate?
Read moonunit's excellent summary on the last page and tiktok's very sensible post above. Noone is condemning the use of breastpumps, just discussing issues around the normalising of expressing etc.

Well I think that cots, buggies and disposable nappies are unecessary - lets stop advertising them shall we ?

I would not be able to work if I didn't have a breast pump as I cannot get on with hand expressing and I will not give DD formula

Tolatola, I am an "attachment parent" and I agree with the argument that prams/buggies etc interfere with bonding. There is also a body of research (admittedly small) that babywearing is significantly better for a baby's spinal development that lying flat in a pram/carseat/pushchair. I think it's very sad that it is believed "everyone needs a buggy".

This is the first time I have read an entire 7 page thread and still not understood the OP by the end.

Surely either-

1. This advert is perfectly fine or

1. All advertising of unnecessary products (i.e all of it) is wrong and should be banned on Mumsnet.

OP I am sorry you have been getting a lot of trumped up exasperation and rudeness.

someone already said this: which I wholly agree with and which I think is a point you are trying to make:

"So that is my main problem with the advertising of breastpumps - that it can encourage a mother to turn to a pump to solve her breastfeeding difficulties, rather than to someone trained in breastfeeding support."

Many women do turn to pumps and some are not very good and with no idea of how breastfeeding works, the pump can indirectly contribute to lactation failure - because instead of sourcing good information to fix breastfeeding they have instead turned to a pump at a critical time.

Another sign that people turn to pumps for lactation assistance rather than a human being is the quantity of hardly used ones found on ebay which is of course an unscientific way to measure the rate at which pumps contribute to lactation failure.

I speak as someone who expressed at work for two children including one who breastfed exclusively for 13 months - big allergy issues it turned out.

I haven't seen the ad btw because I have adblock software on my PC which works very well.

kellybronze- I would totally agree with the Op's point that you quote IF the advert basically said "Blah Blah pump. Great for overcoming bf problems" (or something more catchy than that obviously- you can tell I dont work in advertising cant you?)

However, the ad in question is for a double breastpump, and its only claim is to be faster than other breastpumps. As such I'd say it's aimed at either getting people to switch up from single or manual pumps or at people who have already decided to get one and are just deciding on brands.

I "turned to a pump" when ds was 2 weeks old on the advice of experienced breast feeding counsellors. It was with their support that I was able to fully breast feed ds for 13 months. Initially the pump was just to supplement because of his slow weight gain (hindsight: "catch down growth" but hindsight is a wonderful thng ) but later it was useful becasue I went back to work f/t when ds was 4 months old and it meant that I was already used to expressing.

The maternity hospital ran ante-natal breasrfeeding workshops, where, as well as going through some of the techniques, practical advice, a couple of real life "examples" (I returned the favout by being one of those "real life examples" at a few workshops after ds was born). In those worskhops, they covered breast feeding pumps: I remember in particular "star to the stars" and a comment about how fiddly they were and that the first few times you would think that you would never get the hang of it.

In no way did it compromise my commitment to breastfeeding. To me, it was just one of the ways of ensuring that a baby only ever got breastmilk. It is testament to the professionalism and support of the breast feeding counsellors at the maternity hospital that I never felt any shame that I had to supplement with EBM: I just got on with it.

As I said before, I liked the ad becasue it normalises breastfeeding in all its forms.

As Baggedand Tagged says, either you accept the ad, or you should oppose all advertising on Mumsnet (and probably its subesequent demise as it needs to advertsing to survive) as there are lots of things advertised that we don't need and for which there are better alternatives.

Interesting debate though :)

prettybird, you said 'I "turned to a pump" when ds was 2 weeks old on the advice of experienced breast feeding counsellors. It was with their support that I was able to fully breast feed ds for 13 months.' So you didn't turn to a pump first, you got help and were presumably told how to best use a pump in order to support breastfeeding, rather than let it undermine breastfeeding. That's different from my example of a mother who uses a pump rather than getting good support from someone knowledgeable.

The op agrees that is some cases pumps are useful. She know that they enable many women to breastfeed after they return to work and for many others to get it going in the early days.

I don't think she is arguing that all 'unnecessary' products should not be advertised on MN or some other overgeneralized idea. IMO MN must advertise or charge a subscription and while we like the idea that it chooses its sponsors, I do hope it continues to choose ads like this one, which I haven't seen but I trust the judgement of others on here, to obey the letter and hopefully the spirit of the Code.

I think she is worried that over advertising of pumps can jeopardize many women's breastfeeding journey for some of the reasons already stated - Like SPB said, about they fuel comments on the ITV website and the DM for example of people saying, why can't she just express and feed from a bottle when they are out'. (I happen to think that these comments are an unnecessary evil on the road to normalising feeding in public myself) or making women think that it is easy to express ergo if she gets nothing from a pump, then there is no milk there and she has been starving her baby. Or that at 4 months in her supply has failed because she 'can't' express like she used to so panic and start to supplement. And the other one being, oh she just guzzled the milk from the bottle so she must not have liked the breast, or words to that effect.

My admittedly crude guideline is that if a company makes bottles and teats then also makes a pump, it is selling the pump as the adjunct to bottlefeeding. (They expect that the majority of women will end up bottlefeeding anyway and making a pump is more about brand recognition and product placement for when a woman moves over to bottlefeeding.) and the pump is possibly shite Rather than selling a pump to enable women to breastfeed.

Kellybronze - I honestly don't see your point.

I see the ad (like BaggedandTagged) as offering an option to those that are already pumping and are looking at different options.

As it happens, in my case, I initially used the electric pump that the hospital lent me and then went to use (and preferred) the Avent hand pump that had been passed on to me by my best friend before ds was born. It never crossed my mind that she was "potentially undermining my success at breast feeding" in giving it to me. On the contrary, it was the message that, as a successful breast feeder herself, she had had occasion to use a breast pump and since she assumed that I was also going to be successful, it would find a good home with me.

Sorry - my first cemment was aimed at morethanasong.

prettybird: no one is saying that you were underinformed or that your friend was underinformed. They are trying to say that breastpumps, used many times without good breastfeeding support in a lot of cases, work against breastfeeding because if timely and appropriate information was sought and found rather than going from an ad to a pump many a woman's chances of successful breastfeeding for longer would be higher.

I'm sorry: I still don't see the point: in my opinion an ad such as this would increase the rates of successful breastfeeding at best (because it helps "normalise" breastfeeding in all its forms), and at worst have no impact as it is not saying that you need to use a breast pump.

I accept that your opinion differs to mine - but as Tiktok says, it does not contravene the WHO guidelines.

I know that there is research that says that advertising formula has an impact on breast feeding rates, hence the ban - but advertising breast pumps??

It is definitely not a good thing that women are expected to pump milk and feed from a bottle if out and about. I've not come across that attitude but that is truly weird. It is also a bit sad if other people won't allow a mother and baby to attend something social because she could leave the baby at home and just pump all weekend. Again, not come across that attitude myself but that is just anti mother and babies and perhaps indicative of a wider anti-ness to the nurturing side of women.

Pumps are great if you use them temporarily and sparingly and then commit to getting the latch and positioning working. They can occasionally, (I have seen) if used inappropriately, TOTALLY undermine breastfeeding.

It IS arguably morally reprehensible that massive multi national not only make money out of women's failure to breastfeed (which is often encouraged by vigorous marketing - the more they advertise, the more breastfeeding rates go down), but out of breastfeeding as well. Breastpumps are part of this, although many people use them happily and they support women to give their babies only breastmilk until 6 months which is only a good thing. So perhaps it is the fact that Lansinoh are in fact owned by Pigeon (a company that has a history of contravening the code) which is what is most objectionable about the advert nand Mumsnet's acceptance of the contract. Mumset are being funded, therefore, by a company that has a history of being unsupportive of women exclusively breastfeeding. This is perhaps a conflict of interests. But perhaps it is not. Mumsnet is not soley a breastfeeding website after all.

The OP started a good discussion. People are rather bizarrely missing the point and getting all uppity.

MoonUnit's post a few pages ago was spot on.

"it does not contravene the WHO guidelines." uh-huh. despite not seeing the ad, I agree on the word of TT that it does not contravene WHO Code.

That is a non-issue to me.

To say that women buy pumps and use them inappropriately (and also buy pumps that are inappropriate for the tasks asked of them) makes them something that ought to be carefully advertised, is a different thing.

I am not big on ads which is why I block them plus they slow down my computer. If MN advertises pumps, I am pleased to hear it is choosing ads that are don't break the code. PUmp ad or not.

BTW, did you know that Lanisoh is now owned by an Asian company called Pigeon which is a flagrant Codebreaker?

off to make lunch and get some work done.

Just scanned Ruby's post and noticed she mentioned Lanisoh and Pigeon already.

How many threads do you see on here from first time mums to be saying

"I plan to breastfeed, which pump should I buy?"

I have to say that I did buy into the "you need a breastpump" before I had DD (although as I bought a £5 second hand one at NCT I doubt I am an advertiser's dream ). I have to say that, had I not had the pump, I would probably not have been feeding now. I had terrible mastitis about 3 weeks in and could not bear to feed on the affected breast as it was so agonising. However I could manage to express. Also I shall never forget the relief when I realised that a bottle of EBM meant I could leave DD with her father for an hour and go out and get a coffee on my own.

While this is an interesting debate, where is the evidence that the commercial promotion of breast pumps has an effect on the duration and success of breastfeeding?

Is there any evidence?

BTW Is the WHO code legally enforceable in UK?

The WHO code is not legally enforecable unless the country itself makes it law. I don't think the UK has. here.

This is a bit tedious - people are still posting saying 'a breastpump was useful to me'.

Excuse this bit of ranting coming up :)

Yes.

The pump was useful to you.

Hip hooray.

Pumps can indeed be useful.

They can also be used inappropriately, and in a way that either prevents someone getting good help or somehow prolongs a problem; they can be used totally inappropriately as a sort of 'test' to see 'how much milk I am making' (NB - whatever result you get is meaningless); they can even lead twits to suggest women ought to pump rather than bf in front of them.

To me, this is not a strong argument to ban their advertising. I know the Lansino-Pigeon connection and to me that is still not an argument to ban their advertising.

But this is the argument - not whether individuals are glad they used a pump or not! Please stop saying you used a pump and it was dead useful......:)