can't believe this conversation in the dr's surgery yesterday

[muslimah28]

little baby came in with his mummy for their 6 week post natal check. mummy is trying to wind baby in the waiting room.

another mummy with a c2 year old says to her 'i found with my son, just changing the formula helped'.

mummy to 6wk old replies, 'no i just use what i did for all 4 of mine, it can't be the formula.'

at no point did 2yr old's mummy say 'are you formula feeding', or 'how are you feeding him', there was just an assumption that she was formula feeding, and it turned out she was right.

i was just a bit shocked to see yet more proof of how much of a formula feeding culture we have here.

didn't want to add this to the other thread going on at the moment, its just way too long.........but interested in thoughts!!

I agree it's good to go to the science to see what it says....one paper is never enough to say something 'proves' something, though - not getting at you, jandmmum, sorry, it's part of my usual impulse to improve the understanding of what research can actually be said to do :)

The Cochrane review may well have included that paper in its assessment. Conclusion was pretty clear - not enough evidence to show LCPUFAs made a difference, and we should wait for more research.

so glad you've joined the discussion tiktok

what are LCPs?

scottishmummy you keep misinterpreting people's statements. and why the abuse? it's so unnecessary.

The inclusion of LCPAs is still totally dubious apparently. The FDA have not affirmed the safety of these LCPAs made from laboratory grown fermented algae and perhaps fish oils. There have even been some studies allegedly attributing infant deaths to being fed formula containing these LCPAs. The claim that these LCPAs were beneficial to human eye and brain development was denied by the EFSA due to the company being unable to demonstrate causality. Even the company who makes them have said they may be crap but they are a good marketing tool. Nice.

LCPs or LCPAs are long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids. Human milk has them and they are crucial for brain, nerve and eye development.

Ruby - I don't think the FDA (USA's statutory food safety commission) have maintained this position, have they? They have awarded a GRAS ('generally recognised as safe') notice to the addition of LCPUFAs in US formula.

I don't think there is any evidence they are unsafe, at least not any formal evidence.

I do think the claims for adding them to formula on the grounds of eyesight and IQ enhancement have been shown as spurious - the FDA and Cochrane show this in their own reviews.

Someone told me you shouldn't 'shake' expressed bm either for these reasons. As I did a lot of expressing for a few weeks I was paranoid about it and if I was driving anywehere with a bottle of bm in my bag became a gibbering wreck about going over bumps.

I retract my retraction in the light of these new facts.

But I still think we should all love each other.

Hi tiktok, I don't think GRAS is the same as full approval. The company in the US which makes the LCPAs have only asked for GRAS which means that the FDA can only raise questions. They have no legal power to stop them being added unless they are actually shown to be harmful (which they haven't). The manufacturers have apparently been told by the FDA to undertake rigorous in-market surveillance, which IMO is spookily like a massive experiment!

I accept what you're saying, Ruby - difference between GRAS and approval is specialist stuff which is not my area :)

this begins to explain

Hully you did make me chuckle on what has been a bit of a nightmare day- 10 week old has chicken pox and big brother won't leave her be. Thanks x

fair point tiktok if I wasn't so darn tired I might have read more
I'd there really any evidence for the ebm though as it does need a good swirl if it's been left standing

if the EBM hasn't been frozen the white blood cells and stem cells in them are alive and shaking it kills them.

Also you'd start to make butter by agitating the milk.

butter! I don't shake it that hard! You can't avoid having to give it a bit of swirl though as it all seperates and sticks to the side of the bottle. can you point me to evidence of this?

the butter thing is lighthearted. Fat in any milk will change to butter if you agitate it long enough - like a couple hrs. Apparently you can make breastmilk soap from ebm too but I can't think of a reason why.

Hmm, do you think the saponification process of soap-making would kill the stem cells?

Shocked that you are shocked tbh.

oh lighten up potpourri I wasn't really shocked. When I asked for evidence it was in reference to the WBCs / stem cells.

I think jandmmum was asking about evidence for shaking killing cells, foxytocin, not making butter!

don't shake the milk.

I am so right.

stem cells in breastmilk.

white blood cells.

Wow I did not know that. I have always given it a big shake cos it really seperates!

Yesterday went to buy new bra (not nursing) to wear at work. Am mixed feeding - formula during day (2 bottles) and BF 7am, 6pm and 11pm. Explained that didn't want to spend too much money as it probably wouldn't fit me when I stopped altogher - she said "not sure why you are bothering, he's big now (6 months) he'll self wean soon"
or today in gym - gym instructor - "not really any point in feeding now - time to get body back"

Can anyone advise? My baby is 5 mths old and has been on aptamil comfort milk for 3.5 mths due to bad trapped wind etc but have been told that he will have to go on hungry baby formula before I wean him. Is this correct and if so should I change to aptamil 1 before so his digestive system can get used to something that is a bit more difficult than the comfort milk to digest? or just try introducing aptamil one on a few feeds to get digestive tract used to digesting harder formula?