Permanent exclusion

[lilsgree]

Can the school do this??
My child has been permanently excluded for shouting at one teacher and supposedly pushing her way through another on her way out of the class. Witnesses who were there say she did not push this teacher and she also claims and swears on God and the bible that she didnt push this teacher.
The school still said in the meeting that there were 13 year 8s who wrote that she did push the teacher but they did not investigate the other students who were there that said she did not.
We have had many calls regarding her behaviour but not towards teachers mostly for breaking basic school rules like eating in the corridors, missing deadlines, and wearing two earring studs which is not allowed in her school.
In the meeting we were given an option to manage move but im not sure if this option is still available for her. How do we get this option because we feel it will be alot suitable than being expelled for something she did not do.

Also my child is black do you think this has anything to do with it?

You have absolutely no evidence for this, unless you personally know for a fact that white children at OP’s daughter’s school displaying the same aggression towards teachers have not been excluded.

We are sadly in a situation where student violence towards teachers is getting more and more serious - we’ve only last week seen the trial of that teenage girl in Wales who stabbed two teachers.

Schools have every right - and in fact, a responsibility - to set a zero tolerance policy to protect their staff.

Shouting at anyone, teacher or not, is a display of aggression. She has already been excluded for fighting on a previous occasion, yet still you say your daughter isn't aggressive? You really need to take the horse blinkers off and start acknowledging your her awful conduct.

Move her because no matter what if her behaviour does change she will always have the stigma of previous behaviour.

Secondly if your child is black you already should have had the talk. She should know unfortunately that they will come down harder and quicker for half the infractions.
You need to have some serious infrastructure in place regarding her behaviour,
expectations and consequences. From Yr 9 it could cause long term schooling issues and you don’t want her in a PRU

you also need to be managing and strict on her free time and see what are her outside influences. Have her in activities, tutoring etc. cut back on unmonitored free tome
for her until 15.

it seems harsh but unfortunately for our kids a few mistakes can be so massive to ruining access to education in this country.

don’t bother re ligating what did and didn’t happen. Swearing at a teacher is enough in my book.

Get this moved to black mumsnetters OP

It is breaking the school rules. That is disruptive in itself. No eating in corridors - not difficult to comply with.

Her daughter not son.

So you don’t support her when she tells you she needs it. Maybe now she’s done something wrong she feels you won’t support her so she’s opting to lie about it.

I sit on exclusion panels and it is very hard to PX a child so there must have been a LOT of incidents to get to this stage.
I advise you accept a managed move because if you don't you may struggle to find another school to take her and she could end up in a specialised unit instead

I think everyone has misunderstood shat year she is in. She is in year 10 and she only turned 15 last week.

You have no evidence OP's DD is being treated as she is because of her race. OP's DD has been excluded for fighting and does not bother to obey rules she doesn't like e.g. breaking the rule about not eating in the corridors.

Upthread is a Guardian article showing that once adjusted for FSMs and SEN there is no difference between exclusions of students of different ethnicities.
DM of dual-heritage DC myself. Also a have taught in very diverse areas. I have never found that exclusions were based on ethnicity or that ethnicity changed a disciplinary outcome.

Op in the kindest way wake up and realise that your child is no angel when your not around.
Its time to see through the fog.
Ive seen some kids and they are a dream with there parents but when parents are not in sight they are wild.
Maybe in your home its all about gentle parenting and shes never been wrong this is a result of that.

As a school governor, I have chaired several permanent exclusion panels. The pupils to be excluded have been of different ethnicities, including white Causian. With just one exception, the parent or parents have sat in the meeting quite incapable of seeing that their child is at fault, even when presented with clear evidence eg a pupil brought a bibi gun into school and, from a distance of several yards, aimed it at another pupil's head. The parent said: 'It's obvious it's a toy.' The exception was the pupil whose parents didn't turn up for the meeting.

The MM will give you a fresh start too, OP. Please accept the offer and start off on the right foot by supporting the school from day 1, sitting down and listening to your daughter, and not accepting any excuses from her.

Please understand that your post above, is just making excuses.

Not following "certain rules due to her mentality that it doesn't make any sense" IS being rude, aggressive, uncooperative and at fault.

Yelling at a teacher is aggressive, flaunting rules you don't like is aggressive, getting into a fight is aggressive. Whether it's outright aggression or more passive-aggressive, it is still aggressive behavior and teachers do not have time to deal with kids who don't follow the basic rules.

I think a fresh start might be a good thing for your DD. She still needs to realize that not liking rules or thinking they don't make sense is not permission to disobey them. The world is full of rules/laws that some might feel don't make sense, or they dislike them, yet, the people of society still need to follow them. It's just life.

The ONLY parent who turned up to the 6 PX panels we held last month accused us of racism.
I am not saying pupils of non white races aren't treated differently in many many cases but I don't think OP can assume that here.
I imagine the red line here was the assault on a teacher (which I appreciate has been disputed) because that is an assault in the workplace which has to be treated differently in case teachers escalate to their union and that can cause a whole new load of issues for schools.

There should be information about it in the letter from her current school.

What a mess. Why would the teacher lie about her behaviour? Sort your child out OP she sounds like an utter disgrace. How do you think she will cope in employment? Or will she just end up in prison?

This is so important. Soon she will be of an age where 8 people or how many of them there were say she pushed a teacher will be something she can be jailed for. You yourself said you haven't done much to help. Well that needs to change now. Police and courts will not take it easy on her. You need to get on the ball. You don't have time to waste.

too much..

You said that the lesson was due to start in 2 minutes and presumably they had turned up for their next lesson.

Well, my first thought is the food that will end up on the floor, being a falls hazard. Won’t my education be disrupted if I slip on someone’s lunch remnants and end up breaking an arm or leg, or smashing my head into a wall or stair? A stay in hospital plus a period of recovery at home, all because of a discarded bit of food, would be very disruptive, don’t you agree?

It takes a lot of steps to permanently exclude a child, and has to be signed off by the governors and LEA. This suggests a persistent pattern of bad behaviour from your daughter lasting many months. How many temporary exclusions has she had, both in and out of school?

Presumably there was also a meeting between you and the head where you were told she was being permanently excluded? That would've been the moment to plead her case about the eye-witnesses who say she didn't assault the teacher being disregarded. What did the head say when you put that to them @lilsgree?

I don't think so. I think the OP needs a massive reality check regarding her DC. She isn't setting her up with the skills she needs to function in society.

Why would the teacher claim to have been pushed if she wasn't?
What motivation would she have to lie?
It is a big thing to suddenly claim that a student assaulted you if they didn't.

Are you saying that the school got together a group of year 8 pupils and asked them to lie about seeing an incident they were not present for?
Would the pupils be reliable in sticking to a made-up story?

Why would the school risk this?

(What motivation would your daughter and year 8 friends have for seeing the incident differently?)

Today you find out your dd has been permanently excluded
she has spent day with at home with you (doing what? Legs up on her phone by any chance!)
and you have spent the entire day thrashing out messages on mumsnet

Doesn’t seem like the best spend of time but each to their own

whether or not this Op wises up to the reality of her daughter, isn’t actually going to change anything because every avenue available to her daughter is likely going to be shut off as time goes by simply by the reality of her behaviour and fact that decision makers - do see the reality