Common racist comments you hear in 2023?

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

Compared to 30 years ago, how is racism different today?

For me, racism terms such as the n word p word are less used than they were 30 years ago. However, people have looked at other avenues. See comments below.

1. "You have a chip over your shoulder" every time someone mentions racism or their lived experience it goes straight to denial mode. You are blamed for your lived experiences and told to get over it and how UK is not racist.

2. "The UK abolished slavery. slavery was a long time ago." Every time someone tries to put forward a view of reparations of people who are still suffering from the effects of slavery they are shut down. "that was a long time ago we have changed and evolved."

3. "I feel like a foreigner in my own country." Which is probably one of the most stupid statements considering that over 80 percent of the population is white. I always answer if you feel like a foreigner how do minorities feel?

4. "name the racists" commonly said for Megan Markle that she should name the racists she claimed in the Royal family. But lets be honest if you did that the other person in whatever circumstance would just deny it and ultimately you will not be believed and be called someone who plays the race card and tarnishing other people's careers.

5. "Why do black people have their own spaces if white people had it we would be accused of racism" This is commonly said by the same people who are not as vocal when other groups have their own space e.g. women, LGBT groups etc.. It just seems like whenever black people have their own space people have to put them down. Take Ngozi Fulani the media made it seem she was the bad person people argued why her charity helps black people suffering from domestic abuse. Sad how she was forced out Sistah Space due to the abuse she faced but the media never mention that and the racism she had to face.

6. "Racism exists in all communities" this is another common one used and is a whataboutery technique. We have seen this with people like Kanye, KSI recently but what people forget there was a lot of criticism from the black community with their actions. So to suggest the black community or any other community does not do anything about racism is for the birds.

7. "My best friend is black" This is something you would hear from the EDL or Britain First. But you would be surprised how often you hear this by a lot of people. Just because your friend or relative is black, Muslim, Asian etc does not mean you cannot be racist. Even if you are a white mother and your child is mixed race does not mean you cannot be racist. It is baffling how a lot of people seem to forget this and think that my saying I cannot be racist because of this automatically means they cannot.

I didn't say the quotes in bold.

You'll find it's HadalyEve who did, so well done on picking up on their clear contradiction. 👍

If I have time, I'll respond to other points. In brief, the Barbary slave trade is never referenced by those who push the Irish slave myth which is always based on the Atlantic Slave Trade. It is said that approximately 1 million Europeans were taken during the Barbary Trade.

But the Atlantic Slave Trade dwarfs that. According to the UN, "....more than 15 million men, women and children were the victims of the tragic transatlantic slave trade, one of the darkest chapters in human history."

The work of Liam Hogan and colleagues has demonstrated how and why it is the Atlantic Slave Trade experiences of black people racist white Americans try to downplay with the Irish slave myth.

"Irish peoples were shipped across the British empire during the 17th and 18th centuries to provide labour and service for a defined number of years, in return for passage, food and lodgings, and eventually freedom. Many, unlike black slaves, did this by choice, seeking new lives and fortunes in the colonies. For others, servitude happened because they were political prisoners, or forcibly deported or sold.

The eventual freedom given to these workers, and their relative rights, is a key difference in the experiences of white European indentured servants and black people in chattel slavery.”

• Liam Hogan

The Irish were going to the New World as indentured servants decades before any convicts were forcibly transported there. The forced transportation of convicts massively declined in the early 1660s. But indentured servitude continued for decades after.

The Irish were mostly indentured servants. Not slaves or otherwise.

If they were sold it sounds like slavery.

I was visiting a village in what would have been referred to as the Barbary Coast. One of the men was fair skinned with blue eyes, he took his headdress off and was ginger. I think he must have been descended from european slaves generations ago.

The only discrimination I saw was to black people, citizens of the country. The two communities, black and Arab, didn't really mix and I was told mixed marriages were rare and frowned on.

It was interesting staying in the home of a local family and I had to admire the women who had a very hard life, limited running water with a well as back up and many many babies, no convenience foods and they had to shear the sheep, spin the wool and weave it before making their husbands a traditional garment the men wore, the rest of their clothes seemed to be Chinese cotton. Men having more than one wife was becoming rare but I did meet one family with two wives, it did not seem a very happy situation for any of them.

Decades later it might be very different now.

No, I haven’t contradicted myself. YES both can be true.

The “they were not indentured servants” refers specifically to the Irish of the Irish slave myth which were the Irish taken by the English mostly during the War of Three Kingdoms which were the specific Irish that DownNative were referring to when they said that the Irish slave myth is the result of racists conflating indentured servitude with slavery.

Now, during other parts of colonial history there were also Irish indentured servants. BOTH existed, and no one who believes the Irish slave myth is conflating the Irish that were indentured servants with slavery. They are conflating the prisoners of war taken by the English and given sentences of hard labour and transported to the American colonies. These were mostly men but not always, Cromwell expanded this to include women and children.

No need to apologise. Just giving you a heads up. It's clear that some posters have felt a need to keep an eye on what we are doing over here in our apparently privileged corner of MN and will report if they feel we are out of line. Get a life, springs to mind.

No, there's a crucial difference between indentured servitude and chattel slavery:

"Indentured servitude is a labor contract where an individual will work to repay an indenture or loan over some time, commonly several years."

From the Library of* *Congress:

"Indentures are agreements between two parties about long-term work. The length of servitude might be a specified number of years or until the servant reached a certain age....

Indentures are a type of contract that was torn in two, so each party could have a portion. Fitting the parts together again at the fulfillment of the contract was proof of the authenticity of the papers."

It is common for US based racists to attempt to conflate indentured servitude with chattel slavery by saying things such as "if they were sold, it sounds like slavery".

It IS based on misunderstanding indentured servitude:

"....a key part of the myth is a misunderstanding of the indentured servitude many Irish peoples found themselves in."

https://fullfact.org/online/Irish-Slaves/

That's why it's important to read what professional historians have to say on the issue such as Liam Hogan and those who signed an open letter with him in 2016 on the matter.

Given that just 1 million Europeans (and far, far fewer than that for the Irish) were part of the Barbary slave trade, it stands to reason nobody really talks about it. Nor do racists use it because of the much smaller numbers involved.

Ask yourself why its the Atlantic Slave Trade with at least 400 million Africans taken as slaves that has been subject to the Irish slave myth in an effort to undermine the black experience.

Atlantic Slave Trade with at least 400 million Africans taken as slaves

400 million? Did you slip on the keyboard there? It’s 11 million. The largest enslavement and forced migration over the furthest distance of any population ever in the history of the planet.
https://www.slavevoyages.org/voyage/essays#interpretation/seasonality/introduction/0/en/

I don’t agree the Irish Slave Myth is based on a misunderstanding of indentured servitude but then I’ve read both sides of the discourse. You haven’t. Liam Hogan is fantastic, but he’s talking past the people claiming there were Irish slaves in the Americas. Those that are invariably point to Irish prisoners of war (basically convicted for doing nothing but being on the wrong side of a civil war). Yes a poster here confused the two, but they hadn’t even heard of the Irish slave myth.

I was talking about Barbados not America. I think the difference is that the community of Redlegs has not recovered from the experiences of their ancestors. They are a particularly poor and marginalised community.

I honestly don't see why saying Irish indentured servants or workers existed or had a terrible experience takes anything away from the history of the Atlantic Slave Trade. We don't only have one horrific story in history (unfortunately) and all are stories worth hearing.

It may be that racists in America are using the plight of the Irish forced labourers in America but that doesn't mean we should dismiss what happened and is still happening to the descendants of the Irish in Barbados.

About 1/3rd the Irish sent to Barbados were prisoners of war and feature in the Irish Slave myth, the other 2/3rds were bog standard indentured servants who volunteered to go, this is because the colonial period spanned several centuries and it was not constant war generating extra prisoners that could be used as forced, unfree labour in the colonies.

The Red Legs are descendants of both groups of Irish, but the trauma that happened to the ones that were forced there and were in horrendous living conditions, more often dying than surviving to be freed I agree has left its mark on their community. It was a large for the island influx of several thousand Irish over only a few years.

I agree that acknowledging the existence of other forms of and degrees of oppression that existed adjacent to the Atlantic slave trade doesn’t invalidate our peoples’ experiences at all.

I agree that acknowledging the existence of other forms of and degrees of oppression that existed adjacent to the Atlantic slave trade doesn’t invalidate our peoples’ experiences at all. Amen to that.

I agree too, though I strongly suspect that those who pop up on other threads with "but the Irish were slaves too" are not referring to the Redlegs!

Probably not but I've never heard anyone say it, maybe it is a modern import from America but certainly not something I ever heard anyone say. I don't understand what they think it achieves, if I say I've got a migraine it doesn't suddenly hurt less if you say you've got one as well. I find it all a bit odd.

I was referring to Mumsnet in particular. Any thread on slavery has people rushing to mention the Irish, Romans or Ottomans.

I've seen the Romans and Vikings referred to, I haven't seen the Irish. I guess I don't read all the threads and I missed those.

I don't deliberately go on Black mumsnetters only threads that come up on active or trending. I'm not black but I am interested as my husband is and my children are mixed but as I said it is only if they come up as active/trending that I see them and I suppose that is a bit of a game of chance.

Yes. Along with any mention of reparations, inevitably goes back to 'well where should we start then...'

Yes, agreed, always with the ' oh but where do we start, who pays, what's it got to do with the people of today.... "

Agreed, all the while conveniently overlooking the racism that we still suffer from today. I suppose that is nothing to do with them!

Yes, I feel it is meant to distract from todays racism. You can’t discuss the roots of racism which is by and large the legacy of the Atlantic slave trade without the conversation going into other slave trades or other forms of unfree labour. I’m happy to discuss world history of slavery and unfree labour, but that’s not where every conversation on race and racism should be hijacked towards.

i have to walk to that co-op today to drop off a yodel package. Wondering if the full window advert showing a Black persons hand holding a banana will still be there. I will snap a photo if it is. I was to head down, ignore, pretend it’s not there mode when I first saw it nor did I want to be seen taking a photo. I’m not in a very diverse area.

Goodness me, that is bananas, (excuse the pun) you have to laugh, or you would cry. How are advertising exces still getting it so wrong! It is reminiscent of the outrageous advert, which I have posted a link for. And that is from a few years ago. It is totally showing up the fact that there is a lack of black people working on these advertising campaigns.

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2018/jan/08/h-and-m-apologises-over-image-of-black-child-in-monkey-hoodie

It’s still there. I took stealth photos. 👎🏿

I was just thinking we need a laughing/crying/angry/exhausted by it all in one emoji for just these occasions. I do remember that advert.

Some ad Exec has done that for a laugh. Hiding in plain sight, so to speak. Similar to when H&M had the Black child in monkey hoodie.

The thing is, they do not need anybody's hand to be holding the banana at all. The message that they are trying to get across regarding fair trade is visible.

Yep. Things like this are not accidental in my opinion. I feel like British racism is full of incidents where they know full well they’re being racist but they know that they can apologise profusely, virtue signal, sweep it under the carpet and then condemn anyone who dares to question their intentions as over-sensitive and weirdly angry about a “minor oversight.” All the while, I think they know that we know they knew it was racist and there’s nothing we can do except complain. They probably have their faux innocent apology ready to go.