Black kids at private school

[QuickQuestionQueen]

I'm considering sending my 2 DCs to a private school in Sept, but I have some doubts whether or not I'm making the right decision. I would be interested to hear of other black parents' experiences.

The area we live in is mainly white, so local state and private schools have a small percentage of children belonging to an ethnic minority.
Both DCs attend good state schools at the moment. Although they've both done well so far there have been several issues over the years - unnecessary storms in teacups (not of my children’s making). I'd say usually their race appeared to be the underlying issue (sometimes by insinuation, once or twice quite blatantly).

The private school seems to offer more academic support, and many, many valuable opportunities in sports and the arts. One of my DCs has been offered 2 scholarships if they attend. Apparently, I've been told by a member of staff, this is an incredibly rare offer for this private school to make. For information - my DC has not been acknowledged for their ability in these subject areas at the current state school.

So my question is, what can I expect if we go private? More chance of racism? Would I be naive to think it would be any other way? But why should my kids miss out on opportunities because of their colour? Also, I'm mindful that we would be at the lower end of the income bracket. I have so many ifs and buts running round my head and am driving myself crazy 🤯
Please - I could really do with hearing the perspectives of others.
TIA 🙏🏾

There are so many variables involved that it would be difficult to say whether your dc would thrive at PS. It might be more useful to ask questions about specific schools on SM.

You may find that it's better to not touch some PS with a barge pole.

Regarding income - many PS will have children from all economic background especially if they offer scholarships. Many will have largely middle class, professionals and business people. I think in most cases the financial circumstances isn't a big issue amongst the dc - probably more an issue for parents.

I'd go for it, QuickQuestion, especially as one of your children has been offered two scholarships. That's marvellous, he must be bright and should be nurtured.

I'm not black but when my son was at school during the 1980s and 90s, there where plenty of black, white, brown, and others as well as different religions, at school with him. Nobody thought anything of it and I am only thinking of it now because of this thread.

I hope your children like the school - that is an important factor - and do well. Good luck to you all.

No experience. But I just wanted to say if you live in a white area is your state school similar lack of ethnic minorities also OP? Obviously the private school is likely to have more wealth.

Based purely on the scholarship I would go for it and if it doesn't work out you can always switch schools. I wouldn't let opportunities sail by without trying though.

If you can afford to send them then do it. If your child has a scholarship, its a no brainer. They will experience racism wherever they go, however the better the education you can give them, the better they will be able to navigate the problems that come in life. My parents did this and it was tough at times as you really become very aware of the differences in lifestyle, but as long as you are there to support them, and keep their feet on the ground, they will be ok. Go for it.

@Bromse

I'd go for it, QuickQuestion, especially as one of your children has been offered two scholarships. That's marvellous, he must be bright and should be nurtured.

I'm not black but when my son was at school during the 1980s and 90s, there where plenty of black, white, brown, and others as well as different religions, at school with him. Nobody thought anything of it and I am only thinking of it now because of this thread.

I hope your children like the school - that is an important factor - and do well. Good luck to you all.

Bromse, perhaps you have not noticed that this thread is on the Black Mumsnetters board.

And perhaps you mean well.

But genuinely, and with respect, when there are plenty of Black posters who can offer opinions and advice based on their experience as Black people, truly - what possible use is your post here?

@Maggiethecat

There are so many variables involved that it would be difficult to say whether your dc would thrive at PS. It might be more useful to ask questions about specific schools on SM.

You may find that it's better to not touch some PS with a barge pole.

Regarding income - many PS will have children from all economic background especially if they offer scholarships. Many will have largely middle class, professionals and business people. I think in most cases the financial circumstances isn't a big issue amongst the dc - probably more an issue for parents.

That's what I'm hoping for in regard to income maggiethecat. Outside of school both my DCs belong to clubs, classes & activities involving kids from a wide income bracket - they seem to have little problem mixing with most of them (there are always exceptions of course).

I'm hoping this will help them learn how to speak to everyone as an equal. To be polite, friendly, warm, confident and respectful towards all.

@Bromse

I'd go for it, QuickQuestion, especially as one of your children has been offered two scholarships. That's marvellous, he must be bright and should be nurtured.

I'm not black but when my son was at school during the 1980s and 90s, there where plenty of black, white, brown, and others as well as different religions, at school with him. Nobody thought anything of it and I am only thinking of it now because of this thread.

I hope your children like the school - that is an important factor - and do well. Good luck to you all.

Thanks for your comment Bromse

I experienced a similar cultural mix when I was at school too. Racism was only a minor issue because of the diversity. I think the diversity made us very curious about each other, and we genuinely embraced and celebrated our differences.

The issue where I live now is that there is not much diversity. Because my kids are so much in the minority they've been singled out at their state schools by a few teachers and parents (subtly), and by a few students (not always subtly). This started from a surprisingly young age.

The students at the private school, although mainly white, are from a much wider catchment area than the state school. So I'm hoping they will be broader minded.

@GreMay1

No experience. But I just wanted to say if you live in a white area is your state school similar lack of ethnic minorities also OP? Obviously the private school is likely to have more wealth.

Based purely on the scholarship I would go for it and if it doesn't work out you can always switch schools. I wouldn't let opportunities sail by without trying though.

Thanks for your comments GreMay1. Yours is the view I'm veering towards at the moment - especially in regard of the double scholarship. On paper, it's a no-brainer - send them! My difficulty is in considering the potential racial implications.

And yes, the state school is mainly white, made up of the immediate catchment area where attitudes can be fairly... traditional.

@KarmaisSweet

If you can afford to send them then do it. If your child has a scholarship, its a no brainer. They will experience racism wherever they go, however the better the education you can give them, the better they will be able to navigate the problems that come in life. My parents did this and it was tough at times as you really become very aware of the differences in lifestyle, but as long as you are there to support them, and keep their feet on the ground, they will be ok. Go for it.

KarmaisSweet I'm tending to agree with your view 100%. Did you go to a PS?

As a white person I am not going to comment on the Race aspect as I don't it’s appropriate but I hope it’s ok to comment on the scholarship/wealth issue
My DD had a 25% scholarship and it was never an issue. In fact it was seen as a badge of honour and DD and the other Scholarship kids were never made to feel awkward because of it. We are certainly not the richest at the school but our area doesn’t have bankers etc here so not many super wealthy anyway and neither of the DC (DD has left but her brother is there now) ever felt uncomfortable because we didn’t have a pool or horses. DDs best friends parents were teachers and Police Officers but also in one case from a very wealthy family. They all just got on
Of course it will vary from school to school

But genuinely, and with respect, when there are plenty of Black posters who can offer opinions and advice based on their experience as Black people, truly - what possible use is your post here?

I was going to post, because I have considerable expertise from the school's side of things. And thought that might be illuminating as well, and give ideas on things to check. I had thought that might be useful (which is why I'm posting, because it's a possible use)

But I shall of course refrain from doing anything other than answering that question, because I can see how unwelcome it would be

I am white, but my kids attend a private school which has some extensive anti racism measures in place.

There will almost definitely be racism though.

However, you can perhaps look into what the school has in place. Ours has a teacher, who is black, who is the head of Equality. This is not just a department, but also a society that children can join. Any child can join. Events are held to raise awareness, raise money etc. Anti racism books are recommended. The majority of the children are appalled by racism.

Even with this very active society, there is still racism. If one child calls another child a racial slur when nobody else is present, there is no evidence that it happened and you can almost guarantee that the parents of the bully will deny that it happened. Unfortunately there is no way to eradicate racism and bullying from any large institution. My ds has been on the receiving end of similar due to having autism, but crucially over the decade+ that he has been there, has learnt to handle the abuse. There will always be abusive people in society.

@AnotherNewt

But genuinely, and with respect, when there are plenty of Black posters who can offer opinions and advice based on their experience as Black people, truly - what possible use is your post here?

I was going to post, because I have considerable expertise from the school's side of things. And thought that might be illuminating as well, and give ideas on things to check. I had thought that might be useful (which is why I'm posting, because it's a possible use)

But I shall of course refrain from doing anything other than answering that question, because I can see how unwelcome it would be

I would hazard a guess that your post wouldn’t be anything other than welcomed by the op.

I have decades of first hand and family experience of independent school education to draw on.

If and when I have wanted general information on schools I have read and posted on general Education threads. If I had ever wanted information from the pov of Black posters who had attended or sent their children to independent schools - I would post here. And would find it indescribably irksome to see the thread filled with posts from people who could not, by definition, supply the information I wanted.

I don’t care how the OP perceives this. I will try not to be astonished at the persistent imposition of quite useless voices in this space.

I have decades of first hand and family experience of independent school education to draw on.

Well, why not give the op the benefit of your experience? Instead, your only contribution thus far has been to moan about irrelevant posts. Ironic.

As a mixed race woman with a mixed race child we are chosing private Because of racial reasons. The private school has significantly more diversity than the local state and children come from wider area, including a multicultural city. We live in a rural market town so plenty of small mindedness that we hope to avoid by going private. We are also hoping that weather parents means that the children have been exposed to a larger cross section of society and will have travelled which will hopefully, mean less racism.

I can't comment on the racism experienced (or not experienced) by black children, but I wanted to mention that in my extended family (not us! ) DC have attended 4 different private schools so far in a very white area. One of the things my sister and SIL like is that they have found the private schools to be more diverse and that their children have friends of different ethnicities and cultures vs my children who, at their relatively small state school, have classmates that are almost exclusively white. When visiting the private schools, have you been there while the children are there so that you can see, informally, what sort of diversity genuinely exists?

Obviously, that does not mean that these children don't experience direct or indirect racism, but certainly it does appear that they are less likely to be alone.

@QuickQuestionQueen hope you don't mind my replying - I’m white but teach in a private school and would be happy to answer any questions you have (although obviously all schools are different!).

My main observation is that you say that in all the schools you're considering, black pupils are a minority. I think that's a very different scenario from choosing between a very diverse state school with lots of black pupils and a private school where your children would be an obvious minority.

My school is very hot on inclusion and is currently focusing a lot on anti-racism, particularly things like micro aggressions. I’m not so naive as to say that there is no racism in the school, but it is definitely something that is firmly dealt with and that staff and students are increasingly aware of. I'd say when it does happen, it's unthinking (micro aggressions) rather than deliberate - not that this makes it any better for those on the receiving end, but just to put it in context.

I think some pupils of colour do find it difficult to be in the minority and can be (understandably) resentful of feeling like they have to represent a whole wider group of people. But the school as a whole is quite diverse (lots of Asian and Jewish pupils and a surprising amount of economic diversity) so perhaps it's easier to be any kind of minority than in a school which is 99% white?

You will likely find the private school is more diverse than the local state school as pupils come from a wider area. Ethnic minority parents generally value eduction and are likely to choose private if they can afford it- generally.
My DC are at private in a mainly white area. The state schools are mainly white but the private schools have far more diversity, albeit more Asians than black pupils. My mixed race DC have thrived and we are very happy with our choice, and as far as we know, they haven’t suffered from racism. I also don’t feel as parents, that we have been treated any differently by the school compared to white parents. My DC are valued members of the school and we are valued members of the parent community.
With regards to economic diversity, all private schools will have a wide range. Some grandparents pay, some are on bursaries, some are mega rich old money types. I wouldn’t let that put you off as DC don’t tend to care- it’s more parents who notice.
I think children should be able to benefit from a superior education (if you think the private is superior), and that race shouldn’t be a barrier to that. If anything, having a good education will improve the future outcomes of DC and their quality of life overall- and that should be welcomed. If you look into Jewish and Asian history of immigrating to the UK in the 60s/70s and their focus on education for their DC, and how they’ve moved into the middle classes as a result of this, I think this is eye opening

jytdtysrht

Hope you don't mind me asking but does your son go to KCS?

Dimples - that's fine - no not KCS, another city

You've said that the private school in question is mainly white, so this may not add much, but in my child's class at private school about 40% are white. There's no racism that me or any other parents have seen. In the local state schools about 90% are white. Whilst you're not getting that racial mix, you will be getting a different type of diversity as the school will draw from a wider geographical area.
The scholarship would make it a no brainer for me.

Thanks for all the helpful responses so far - they are all very, very much appreciated.

@TottersBlankly I would 100% love to hear your perspective. Your decades of family experience in independents would be most valuable for me to read.

Maybe dependent on the area, but our private school has much more diversity than any of the state schools around.

How does it look on the school photographs? Is there a lot of POC or mainly white children?

"I’m not so naive as to say that there is no racism in the school, but it is definitely something that is firmly dealt with"
@itssquidstella could you explain this further? And is your school unusually vigilant in their way of dealing with racism do you think?