Black kids at private school

[QuickQuestionQueen]

I'm considering sending my 2 DCs to a private school in Sept, but I have some doubts whether or not I'm making the right decision. I would be interested to hear of other black parents' experiences.

The area we live in is mainly white, so local state and private schools have a small percentage of children belonging to an ethnic minority.
Both DCs attend good state schools at the moment. Although they've both done well so far there have been several issues over the years - unnecessary storms in teacups (not of my children’s making). I'd say usually their race appeared to be the underlying issue (sometimes by insinuation, once or twice quite blatantly).

The private school seems to offer more academic support, and many, many valuable opportunities in sports and the arts. One of my DCs has been offered 2 scholarships if they attend. Apparently, I've been told by a member of staff, this is an incredibly rare offer for this private school to make. For information - my DC has not been acknowledged for their ability in these subject areas at the current state school.

So my question is, what can I expect if we go private? More chance of racism? Would I be naive to think it would be any other way? But why should my kids miss out on opportunities because of their colour? Also, I'm mindful that we would be at the lower end of the income bracket. I have so many ifs and buts running round my head and am driving myself crazy 🤯
Please - I could really do with hearing the perspectives of others.
TIA 🙏🏾

Not black, but of Middle Eastern origin here…hope you don’t mind me posting.

The private and international schools I attended had a wonderful mix of children and staff from all over the world. I had friends from the African continent, Europe, US, Far East and so on (I’m still in touch with many of them now). It was great! Those children on scholarships and bursaries were highly regarded. What I loved about the schools I went to, was that there was something for everyone: Chance of scholarships for those with strong academic abilities or those good with music or art; huge range of different sports/activities to try out/excel in. But these achievements (be it scholarship, getting sporting colours/award or even earning your house/school prefect tie) were always celebrated by the school and the other kids.

Re: racism. At my schools, even back when I was there, racism was not tolerated. Actually, there was one kid who was nasty to me about my background - the teachers got wind of it and she got into a huge amount of trouble for it. I’m betting now, it would be stamped out even more quickly and very hard.

My two kids are in state schools but we live in a predominantly white area in the SE. The kids I know at private schools (children of friends) also have plenty of friends from all parts of the world and all backgrounds. They say the same re: kids who get scholarships and bursaries etc. Its seen a mark of respect.

Well done to your DC for getting scholarships! That’s no mean feat and you must be very proud. I’d go for it and send them. Are you able to speak to the Headteacher about your worries? I’d want to know what policies the school had in place to ensure that racism, bullying and so on were dealt with swiftly. I wish you all the very best, and I hope that if your kids go there, that they settle in and live their time there :)

Thanks @TicTac80
"Are you able to speak to the Headteacher about your worries? I’d want to know what policies the school had in place to ensure that racism, bullying and so on were dealt with swiftly."

I spoke to the school's head of pastoral shortly after we'd been shown around the school, when I was first considering placing my DCs there. I found her answers a bit too policy-like, saying what they'd do in theory rather than what actually happens. I asked for examples of when they've had to deal with racism and how it was resolved. Although I respect that they cannot name names or give away any specifics, I felt a little frustrated at the woolliness of her answers. I got the impression she didn't like being asked and may have found the conversation a bit embarrassing. Maybe she was busy juggling dozens of other things (probably), maybe she hasn't had to give it much thought as they rarely have instances of racism (hopefully), or perhaps there was one of many other good reasons (possibly).

I got more sense out of one of the school house parents later that week which was reassuring. But, it concerns me that someone in a leadership role at the school would struggle to answer this query.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your PS experiences with me

@QuickQuestionQueen - it is a big decision but, from the race/diversity perspective, sounds there have been issues with the current state school. Totally understand that you wish for your dc to be in a progressive, positive environment but don't discount the PS because of your interaction with the head of pastoral.

I was thinking back to when my dd1 was at the local catholic state school and was told by a boy in her class that she was not allowed to play with her best friend who was white - these kinds of putting you in your place probably happened all the time in this school.

When we moved, dc attended PS and 5 yo dd2 was called a poo by a boy in her class. He may have used the word indiscriminately as a child like reproach or it may have had racist intention but I recall that the teacher came down very hard on him.

His parents were informed and this was all filed. That's not to say there were no issues with the PS but I'm not sure the old state school would have dealt with the issue robustly.

I'd say with the scholarship go for it as the private school already wants your dc there.
At the private school my dd attends (my dc is brown, I'm mixed and my mum is black for context) there are clear race divides.
It's so obvious and we're not even in a non diverse area, in fact if anything the private school attracts more white people from outside the area than would live locally.

As a brown person married to a white man I find I'm more accepted but the white families almost make you choose if you want to be friends with them by always excluding black dc in everything they participate in and that's not ok with me so I end up not going to anything they involve me in by default. Some dc have also pretended they can't pronounce non English names. I'm talking really obvious names that are said how they are spelt and the school does nothing when the parents complain about it.

However I do know that schools don't give scholarships for nothing. If your dc are doing well then the school will work to keep them there and hopefully you won't have these things happen.
Another thing is that if there is racism, because there are already more diverse dc there too, then at least your dc can fall back on making friends with other dc that are more likely to understand and then tackle the issues together unlike in a more white school where you're left alone (brings back memories of me being the only brown dc in a white classroom!!)

A bit late to the thread but if you truly believe sending your DC to private school would have an adverse effect than I wouldn’t do it. I don’t personally think that private school automatically equals racism. I do think there are some schools you should be careful about because there is a higher chance of experiencing racism.

My DC is due to start at a local prep school in September and though I’m very much used to being the only or one of the only black people in a setting, I wanted my son to have a different experience. Especially since moving away from London. Of the 3 local private schools, DH and I purposely chose the most diverse. I would agree with PP that have said private schools can be more diverse, there was definitely a higher representation of black people than at the local state schools.

We had a similar experience with his nursery, he’s been attending since he was about 8 months. It’s rated outstanding and most people (outside of mumsnet see it as the best chain nursery) we are not London but 40% of my son’s class is black.
All in all, I think you might be pleasantly surprised.

@QuickQuestionQueen

I'm considering sending my 2 DCs to a private school in Sept, but I have some doubts whether or not I'm making the right decision. I would be interested to hear of other black parents' experiences.

The area we live in is mainly white, so local state and private schools have a small percentage of children belonging to an ethnic minority.
Both DCs attend good state schools at the moment. Although they've both done well so far there have been several issues over the years - unnecessary storms in teacups (not of my children’s making). I'd say usually their race appeared to be the underlying issue (sometimes by insinuation, once or twice quite blatantly).

The private school seems to offer more academic support, and many, many valuable opportunities in sports and the arts. One of my DCs has been offered 2 scholarships if they attend. Apparently, I've been told by a member of staff, this is an incredibly rare offer for this private school to make. For information - my DC has not been acknowledged for their ability in these subject areas at the current state school.

So my question is, what can I expect if we go private? More chance of racism? Would I be naive to think it would be any other way? But why should my kids miss out on opportunities because of their colour? Also, I'm mindful that we would be at the lower end of the income bracket. I have so many ifs and buts running round my head and am driving myself crazy 🤯
Please - I could really do with hearing the perspectives of others.
TIA 🙏🏾

I’m of Indian origin and am finding that private schools tend to be where the most intolerant families from my culture send their kids. So I’d go to an open day first if possible to make sure you aren’t exchanging one lot of racism for another.

@QuickQuestionQueen

I think you have intimated above a shyness / lack of confidence in yourself that has rubbed off on your kids?

We all have something. However, you've noticed it is a problem. I would encourage you to address this head on ASAP. They're still young and will still look to you for direction for many years to come. Whatever the tea hung at school, you are doing your own rather impacting, teaching at home.

Sending your children to this private school might be the first opportunity to do this?

Good luck whatever you choose.

@QuickQuestionQueen , like others have said on this thread, go for it. You've got nothing to lose. My DC in private education have had a much better experience than their Black and non Black friends and relatives of colour in state education. State education in this country is not built for Black children in mind.

@Maggiethecat
"I was thinking back to when my dd1 was at the local catholic state school and was told by a boy in her class that she was not allowed to play with her best friend who was white - these kinds of putting you in your place probably happened all the time in this school."

Yes, that's what my 2 DCs have experienced, being 'put in their place' by other kids and by some teaching staff. It's seen as the norm and acceptable. When I've been present for some of these put downs I've noticed my eldest just shrugs it off but my youngest will sometimes hold her ground. Sometimes I don't think they've realised they are being put down, as it's fairly normalised sadly. I'll speak up to redress the situation when I'm there, but I'm not always.
I guess I'm wondering if this could be even worse at PS or if it'll give my DCs the confidence to speak up for themselves and challenge negative comments.

@blackcathat
"I find I'm more accepted but the white families almost make you choose if you want to be friends with them by always excluding black dc in everything they participate in and that's not ok with me so I end up not going to anything they involve me in by default. Some dc have also pretended they can't pronounce non English names."
Disgraceful!!

"Another thing is that if there is racism, because there are already more diverse dc there too, then at least your dc can fall back on making friends with other dc that are more likely to understand and then tackle the issues together unlike in a more white school where you're left alone"
Exactly what I'm hoping for - to whatever greater or lesser degree

@CranberryPickle
"if you truly believe sending your DC to private school would have an adverse effect than I wouldn’t do it. I don’t personally think that private school automatically equals racism."
I agree. It depends upon the individual school.

"I do think there are some schools you should be careful about because there is a higher chance of experiencing racism."
Absolutely. The tricky bit is finding out because I don't know any black families who attend the school. I have to judge based on gut feeling and instinct.
Thanks for your comments, very helpful

@Ozanj my previous message wouldn't post - sorry if it comes up twice...
"I’m of Indian origin and am finding that private schools tend to be where the most intolerant families from my culture send their kids. So I’d go to an open day first if possible to make sure you aren’t exchanging one lot of racism for another."
The Indian families where I live are very friendly and welcoming. BUT I understand your general point, so thanks for making it

[quote Jamdown123]@QuickQuestionQueen

I think you have intimated above a shyness / lack of confidence in yourself that has rubbed off on your kids?

We all have something. However, you've noticed it is a problem. I would encourage you to address this head on ASAP. They're still young and will still look to you for direction for many years to come. Whatever the tea hung at school, you are doing your own rather impacting, teaching at home.

Sending your children to this private school might be the first opportunity to do this?

Good luck whatever you choose.[/quote]
@jamdown123
It's been a nightmare trying to teach my kids how to be outgoing when I was not at their age. Believe me, I've tried though. PSs do seem to instill confidence into their students so am hoping this could redress the balance.
Thanks for your comments

My DC are in a very diverse private school. We have never experienced any kind of racism and the children all show one another respect and friendship regardless of race / religion etc.

It has been an incredibly nurturing environment for my DC and there’s nothing I would change.

@Soma
"State education in this country is not built for Black children in mind."
Oh, I have been utterly shocked at the discrepancy in treatment between my DCs and their white counterparts at school at times. My DCs have come home telling me of the repeated blatant rudeness, lateness and laziness of some individuals and how they get given 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (etc!) chances to put things right. My DCs put a toe out of line ONCE and they get the ton of bricks brought down on them. On two occasions my eldest DC was severely scolded for a catalogue of misdeeds by senior teaching staff when he had literally done nothing wrong. Both staff admitted their mistake to me and gave full apologises afterwards.
I'm sick of my well-mannered, polite and respectful DCs receiving this treatment. I'd hate to think I'm moving them to a school, be it either PS or state, where potentially it could be much worse.
I guess it was naive of me to think that this level of racism was behind us, now it's the 21st century

I'm not black, but my children are. One is obviously mixed race and the other very dark.
We also live in a very white area. My children originally attended the local 'outstanding ' school. However, they also experienced racism.
I moved them to private during primary, which again was mostly white. Over the years (now secondary aged), they have experienced an odd count of racism but it was nipped in the bud very quickly and the school made it very clear it was unacceptable. At state school, they turned a blind eye / said they'd talk and do nothing.
But it does probably depend on the school rather than private vs state.
I would try it definitely

I would definitely say you need to be much more alert for racist attitudes at an institutional level, rather than anything more overt amongst the pupils. (I haven’t encountered a racial slur anywhere since the 1970s.) The problem is likely to be much less obvious, and therefore deniable, sidelining by teachers; a failure to care as much about the well-being and progress of black pupils as about others. There may not even be discernible incidents one can legitimately question - you just notice over time that other children are thriving - winning prizes, being directed to opportunities, being listened to when in difficulty - while your children aren’t.

And yes, this is just as likely to happen at independent schools. The difference will be that there will be more good stuff in the structure of any day, which will consistently arm children against … stupidity.

@TottersBlankly
"The problem is likely to be much less obvious, and therefore deniable,sideliningby teachers; a failure to care as much about the well-being and progress of black pupils as about others. There may not even be discernible incidents one can legitimately question - you just notice over time that other children are thriving - winning prizes, being directed to opportunities, being listened to when in difficulty - while your children aren’t."

Yup. All this, and more, has been clocked at my DCs current schools. Hideous, isn't it?

I'm Black. I went to a private girl's school on an academic scholarship in London in the 1990s (so quite a while ago I'm afraid - sorry OP).

I would say go for it. My school was much more diverse and balanced than the inner city state schools in my borough (all Black/Asian) or the outskirts London state schools (all white) nearby so I feel I got the best balance.

I experienced zero racism, although you and I both know that doesn't mean there definitely wasn't any, I just personally never heard of or saw anything like that happen. We were a community and all treated the same.

Overall going to a private school as the daughter of an African single mother from a tower block council estate changed my life! I am sure it made the difference because I can see how those opportunities benefited me versus my cousins who went to local state schools (but were as bright as me) and how differently our lives and outlooks are.

I believe the best thing we can do for our kids is give them access to all of the opportunities the majority group children get. As yours are bright and gaining huge scholarships definitely go for it! It's a life changing opportunity and a white parent probably wouldn't hesitate to take up such an offer.

Everyone Black I know who went to private school is pleased they did, even if there were challenges at times. This was in the 1990s though - might be different now.

Best of luck to you and your family - you sound like a great Mum.

@QuickQuestionQueen, that's so heat breaking to hear that. My DC are still in private education, and they are given the benefit of the doubt all the time. I can honestly say of the 14 years or so of them attending independent schools, racism has been the least of my worries. We asked to speak to the Head at one prep schools because one of my DC complained that a couple of girls in the year above said something negative and the head met with us immediately and she and the class teacher did a very good circle time incorporating themes on different hair types etc.

I've tried to give my DC the tools to deal with potential racism including speaking to them about lateness being a trope that some people may buy into about Black people and the importance of completing their homework on time to a good standard.

Some independent schools are so much better than others in getting lots of things right. Our first prep not so good, second one was excellent, but was lacking on the trip front. DD1 senior school wasn't very good and we changed at the first opportunity, but there were some great teachers who were very inclusive and responsive to my emails.

Even my trickier, harder to teach DC have been treated with kindness and given all the support they need. No school is perfect, but I think my children have thrived more in an independent school setting than in a state school.

From my experience my 10 year old has been to 3 private schools first one and current one good no direct racial issues. The 2nd one which was more rural was terrible. My poor son was told I don't want to sit next to black people because they are riddled with disease 😢😢 and lots of other subtle stereotyping. We moved after 1 year to a more multi cultural area. Although I see some stereotyping from teachers in current school, my son is thriving and proving these wrong.

I’m black and have sent my daughter to a private school which is predominantly white. So far we have had no issues with overt racism. However, we have decided to ensure she is immersed with her culture and race on weekends with family and friends to ensure she is growing confidently in her identity. Being the only black child in the class/ year can take a toll so tune in to what’s going on and support holistically as I’m sure you will. All the best!

I went to a private girls' school that was almost entirely white for secondary school. It was the best thing my parents could have done for me. It was highly academic and international so not everyone was white and English ifykwim.
I spent holidays and weekends with family and black friends. I knew who I was and where I came from.
The main thing for me is I feel no discomfort in any space. I would recommend sending your children to private school. I have had the best education money and scholarships could buy and I really benefited. I am so grateful that my mother pushed ahead against the naysayers.

I think it really depends on your area and the individual private school. Sadly I think your child could encounter racism anywhere, either state or private. My local private school is predominantly white with the other ethnic minorities come to study for just a few years whilst their parents work in the UK. Your child is obviously bright and I would focus on their academic achievement and accept the scholarship. Deal with any issues as they arise as racism and income disparities can occur in any school.

My kids go to a private school. We are a white family, Home Counties, so not an enormous mix of ethnicities around here. My experience is that the private schools have a more ethnically diverse intake than the local schools. Not socially diverse, sure - it’s the kids of doctors, lawyers and people in the City. I’ve just asked my daughter and she reckons that the white kids form slightly less than 50% of her class. Don’t know if that helps or not, but hopefully it gives you another perspective?