Black kids at private school

[QuickQuestionQueen]

I'm considering sending my 2 DCs to a private school in Sept, but I have some doubts whether or not I'm making the right decision. I would be interested to hear of other black parents' experiences.

The area we live in is mainly white, so local state and private schools have a small percentage of children belonging to an ethnic minority.
Both DCs attend good state schools at the moment. Although they've both done well so far there have been several issues over the years - unnecessary storms in teacups (not of my children’s making). I'd say usually their race appeared to be the underlying issue (sometimes by insinuation, once or twice quite blatantly).

The private school seems to offer more academic support, and many, many valuable opportunities in sports and the arts. One of my DCs has been offered 2 scholarships if they attend. Apparently, I've been told by a member of staff, this is an incredibly rare offer for this private school to make. For information - my DC has not been acknowledged for their ability in these subject areas at the current state school.

So my question is, what can I expect if we go private? More chance of racism? Would I be naive to think it would be any other way? But why should my kids miss out on opportunities because of their colour? Also, I'm mindful that we would be at the lower end of the income bracket. I have so many ifs and buts running round my head and am driving myself crazy 🤯
Please - I could really do with hearing the perspectives of others.
TIA 🙏🏾

I don't think that your children's race should be a factor in deciding whether to choose a private school.
Both my girls were in private schools and I have taught in the private sector.
There were many children of different ethnicities in all these schools, and as far as I know, they were not targeted for their race.
Having said that, there may still be 'hidden' racism (I have seen this in both the state and the private schools) but very little overt hostility. Any good school will make sure it has robust anti bullying policies, including any racism, and will do their best to combat it, if it happens.

Forgot to add, I am mixed race.

Other issues too, which I don't think has been touched on as much (though I skipped some pares, it's true!)

For girls, I think some of the issue with sending dd to mostly white schools is the attractiveness stakes in puberty. Who the boys fancy (if the girl is heterosexual). Never being the girl the guys like is incredibly impacting. A lot is learned in those years and the damage to self esteem, huge.

It might sound a bit premature to talk about these things, but it's life from about 13 years old onwards? Maybe even younger.

With boys, I think a lot of it is when they go out with friends on the weekend. Black boys who are pushed to the front on altercations with other boys for example (used as a shield by white 'friends') or being abandoned if they come into contact with racist violence and aggression.

These are some of the other reasons I'd want them to be around other black children at school which is the biggest chunk of their waking school day.

For girls, I think some of the issue with sending dd to mostly white schools is the attractiveness stakes in puberty. Who the boys fancy (if the girl is heterosexual). Never being the girl the guys like is incredibly impacting. A lot is learned in those years and the damage to self esteem, huge.

This. A million times.

But it would be the same in any state school in localities without large populations of Black people. And that’s most of the country, of course.

@Jamdown123

Other issues too, which I don't think has been touched on as much (though I skipped some pares, it's true!)

For girls, I think some of the issue with sending dd to mostly white schools is the attractiveness stakes in puberty. Who the boys fancy (if the girl is heterosexual). Never being the girl the guys like is incredibly impacting. A lot is learned in those years and the damage to self esteem, huge.

It might sound a bit premature to talk about these things, but it's life from about 13 years old onwards? Maybe even younger.

With boys, I think a lot of it is when they go out with friends on the weekend. Black boys who are pushed to the front on altercations with other boys for example (used as a shield by white 'friends') or being abandoned if they come into contact with racist violence and aggression.

These are some of the other reasons I'd want them to be around other black children at school which is the biggest chunk of their waking school day.

100% agree with this statement. Identity and esteem is so important in these informative years. Also, not to mention the child being authentically themselves and not feeling they need to look like the majority race to be attractive. (All Disney princesses are all the rage amongst her peers at the moment)

Private school is still a microcosm of the real world so we can’t pretend like it doesn’t exists. Even little things like my 4 year old daughter having canerow for school (private school) and others having European hair. Nonetheless, we as parents can try to mitigate as much as we can allowing them to thrive.

I'm not black but my husband taught in a public school in a rural area in Devon where there a lot of overseas pupils many from Africa. There was never any sign of racism there. Interestingly there were no black British pupils but probably because it wasn't a very multicultural area so day pupils were local and therefore white.

I am black and have 3DCs in private senior schools. I would say that the same racism that is endemic in society is reflected in their schools albeit on a more subtle basis. I think the opportunities that they have had access to are unparalleled, however, there are a lack of black role models within the schools, there are parts of the curriculum that are highly questionable and their schools are only just begin to think about active anti-racism in any real way therefore it transpires through micro-aggressions, inequitable sanctions for BAME students, assumptions and stereotypes - Black kids can sing, dance and are good at sport. However, we have a responsibility to teach our black children resilience and support them to navigate the world around them which includes racism.

My DC’s have found that there is power in numbers at their schools and due to them being in the significant minority, they have tended to make friends with the other BAME kids almost immediately. There have been a number of comments etc by both staff and students regarding these groupings. However, they all confident and able to flex across various groups on a social basis and are accepted across the piece. They all hold scholarships of varying degrees and we top up the rest - financially it is still a huge commitment but overall it is worth every penny and we selected their schools on the basis of academic outcomes as well as the diversity although minimal in all their schools. We looked at a number of schools where there was a sea of white faces so immediately went straight into the no box for us! I would say go for it, it provides a great foundation for the future.

Others will tell you that bright kids will do well in any school and not to bother which neglects to take into account the low educational outcomes that some black kids experience in state schools irrespective of ability.

For girls, I think some of the issue with sending dd to mostly white schools is the attractiveness stakes in puberty. Never being the girl the guys like is incredibly impacting.

With boys, I think a lot of it is when they go out with friends on the weekend. Black boys who are pushed to the front on altercations with other boys for example (used as a shield by white 'friends') or being abandoned if they come into contact with racist violence and aggression.

@Jamdown123 - VERY important points raised, thanks. These are at thoughts I've considered, but in the back of my mind. I don't really know what to do for the best I must admit. My feeling though is that both DC could face these issues at PS or SS in the area as where we live is mostly white anyway. We've already seen a lot of what you describe in SS. Especially towards my DD from a very young age (remarks made by her friend's white mummies).

Private school is still a microcosm of the real world so we can’t pretend like it doesn’t exists. Even little things like my 4 year old daughter having canerow for school (private school) and others having European hair. Nonetheless, we as parents can try to mitigate as much as we can allowing them to thrive.

@DM29 Yes, those minor differences get picked up on even at such a young age and can make our beautiful black kids feel othered if not handled with great care. We've all seen and read about how schools, on a senior management level, can rule out natural black hair styles as being somehow extreme. It worries me how much effort us black parents have to plough in to empowering our kids to be happy in their own skin (and hair) and able to thrive. Completely ridiculous - and yet totally necessary.

An ex boss of mine sent his mixed race (Nigerian mother he was white) to a pubic day school. Apparently no issues whatsoever.

I went to a private convent years ago, lots of different races and religions there. No racism as far as I recall, in fact probably the complete opposite.

Which school were you thinking of? Look at the academic record and extra curricular activities.

@Gonnagetgoing

An ex boss of mine sent his mixed race (Nigerian mother he was white) to a pubic day school. Apparently no issues whatsoever.

How is this helpful?

@TottersBlankly - ok should’ve elaborated. He said he sent them there partly for a good education but also partly the state schools in an urban part of London could’ve attracted bullying/gangs/not learning as well.

@Gonnagetgoing

Which school were you thinking of? Look at the academic record and extra curricular activities.

@gonnagetgoing Academic record: excellent Extra-curricular: excellent Last inspection report: excellent 👌🏾

My point was …

Both you and your ex-boss are a million miles away from being in a position to discern whether that child experienced any of the myriad forms of subtle, deniable, long term racism that occur in British schools.

The father would not have recognised any such activity. How could he? What does ‘no issues whatsoever’ mean? It’s not just, say, no white child was arrested for tarring and feathering a black child that year. Or no teacher had a black child strip searched without parental consent. That is not the kind of behaviour that black parents generally need to be on the alert for - though they happen. Unfortunately white adults only understand racism as name calling or violence. So they are not appropriate people to assess such situations.

So your third hand report is of absolutely no value whatsoever. Sorry.

@TrottersBlankly, the DH had immigrant parents (polish) but was brought up in London. He worked in an industry where there was lots of years of study. I think I also spoke to his wife (briefly) but I specifically recall him telling me that yes he has mixed race kids and they went to private school as it’d be much better for them than eg at local Harris Academy/comp,

@QuickQuestionQueen all your questions have been answered then!

I forgot that an Anglo Indian parent I worked for sent both her boys to a private school, Essex, for better education and she could afford it and thought it was important to get a good education.

From my limited view of state schools in my area, yes, some children do fine in state schools but if I were in your shoes and could afford it I’d send them to a private school. I’m not saying black or ethnic minority children don’t do well at state school but I think sometimes they need extra support etc that a private school can give.

Both you and your ex-boss are a million miles away from being in a position to discern whether that child experienced any of the myriad forms of subtle, deniable, long term racism that occur in British schools

Indeed. TottersBlankly

So hopefully, we will get back on topic soon. As I'm finding the discussions between black mumsnetters and OP very interesting, albeit I've been lurking until now.

Hi there. Exactly. I wasnt referring to private school solely, but all schools where dc are in the sharp minority.

I've got to say I personally wouldn't do it. I'm probably not going to send my children to private school, we're those ~mugs~ parents who play the catchment game, and then sell to other well-meaning parents who want that coveted catchment house. And though my children are a good few years off I'm thinking about where I'll have to ~tighten the mortgage noose around my neck~ buy to get them into that great school that fits their personality, has other black kids, is close to some sort of black community.... I was, seriously thinking about DAO. NOT anymore.

So, it's swings and roundabouts. We're all just doing our best for our children. But I'm definitely not going to do anything I think will be deleterious to their personal self esteem and I'll tell you why. I'm not that old, others will have more life experience, but the people I see getting ahead aren't necessarily big brains and ivy league. They are very confident, they have very encouraging people behind them, parents with money to seed new businsess etc. I don't really see a private school privilege among black people my age (35-45). It doesn't seem to work the same way as it doea for white people, perhaps. Doesn't pack the same punch. Maybe it does in some very elite careers, like barristers, elite sports like dressage, polo, rowing etc.

Otherwise, I think confidence is very very important, and I'm being very thoughtful about developing that in my children. The jury is out though, of course. I might be very wrong.

Just wanted to say I agree with previous posters in that I worked at a private school for 30 years and we had a wonderful mix of cultures at school in comparison to our very white neighbourhood. In the boarding houses the pupils were very happy. I think your twins would thrive in that environment. Good luck

@Jamdown123 I take a different view. I’m in that age range and I definitely see a difference with black people who were privately educated in my area of work. You are correct that confidence, charisma, smart working, being well liked amongst peers can all get one ahead in the workplace over academic results. Those traits often are explored and accentuated at private schools. I see it in my workplace amongst ethnic minorities. I’m not saying you can’t develop those traits at state school and by having supportive parents, but the likelihood of developing and refining them at private school is far higher, when surrounded by others who are also developing those skills.
The ability to get along well with white peers is critical to success as the workplace has a higher proportion of white people, especially in senior roles. School can help prepare for this, especially if there are a greater proportion of white pupils so DC are already accustomed to it.

Race wouldn’t be a priority factor for me when considering a school for DC if they have a scholarship there, and the academics and extracurriculars are great. The priority should be getting them the best education and development as possible and then dealing with the other consequences as mentioned above (attractiveness of black girls and white boys). I would never let something like that deter my DC from accessing a quality education, which can allow them to have better outcomes in life.

@Jamdown123

Hi there. Exactly. I wasnt referring to private school solely, but all schools where dc are in the sharp minority.

I've got to say I personally wouldn't do it. I'm probably not going to send my children to private school, we're those ~mugs~ parents who play the catchment game, and then sell to other well-meaning parents who want that coveted catchment house. And though my children are a good few years off I'm thinking about where I'll have to ~tighten the mortgage noose around my neck~ buy to get them into that great school that fits their personality, has other black kids, is close to some sort of black community.... I was, seriously thinking about DAO. NOT anymore.

So, it's swings and roundabouts. We're all just doing our best for our children. But I'm definitely not going to do anything I think will be deleterious to their personal self esteem and I'll tell you why. I'm not that old, others will have more life experience, but the people I see getting ahead aren't necessarily big brains and ivy league. They are very confident, they have very encouraging people behind them, parents with money to seed new businsess etc. I don't really see a private school privilege among black people my age (35-45). It doesn't seem to work the same way as it doea for white people, perhaps. Doesn't pack the same punch. Maybe it does in some very elite careers, like barristers, elite sports like dressage, polo, rowing etc.

Otherwise, I think confidence is very very important, and I'm being very thoughtful about developing that in my children. The jury is out though, of course. I might be very wrong.

I don't really see a private school privilege among black people my age (35-45). It doesn't seem to work the same way as it doea for white people, perhaps. Doesn't pack the same punch. Maybe it does in some very elite careers, like barristers, elite sports like dressage, polo, rowing etc.

Do you mean black people your age group who have been privately educated don't seem to have any advantage over those that didn't attend private school?

Those who attend private schools dominate this country, in every profession and every institution. Look at the Oscars, best male and female British nominee...both private school educated.

Be it TV, Stage, Film, Journalism, Law, Army, Universities, Schools, Publishing, Art, Tech, Banking, Finance, Insurance, ANYTHING, people from public schools dominate.

It's just a plain fact.

And black kids who attend private have an advantage over black kids who don't, because private schools produce better exams results. At my daughters school around 80% go to Russell Group Universities in the 6th Form. Look at the top 50 schools in London for A Level results and only a few are state, and of those mostly grammar schools.

[quote Fretfulmum]@Jamdown123 I take a different view. I’m in that age range and I definitely see a difference with black people who were privately educated in my area of work. You are correct that confidence, charisma, smart working, being well liked amongst peers can all get one ahead in the workplace over academic results. Those traits often are explored and accentuated at private schools. I see it in my workplace amongst ethnic minorities. I’m not saying you can’t develop those traits at state school and by having supportive parents, but the likelihood of developing and refining them at private school is far higher, when surrounded by others who are also developing those skills.
The ability to get along well with white peers is critical to success as the workplace has a higher proportion of white people, especially in senior roles. School can help prepare for this, especially if there are a greater proportion of white pupils so DC are already accustomed to it.

Race wouldn’t be a priority factor for me when considering a school for DC if they have a scholarship there, and the academics and extracurriculars are great. The priority should be getting them the best education and development as possible and then dealing with the other consequences as mentioned above (attractiveness of black girls and white boys). I would never let something like that deter my DC from accessing a quality education, which can allow them to have better outcomes in life.[/quote]
Exactly this. Couldn't put it better myself.

My dcs attend a small independent primary school. It is predominantly white. I can't comment from the perspective of a black parent obviously, but what I can say is that due to the small class size and fact it is fee paying behaviour standards are much easier to enforce. The school code of conduct is clear that racist behaviour of any type is not tolerated and those responsible will be excluded. I am not aware of any issues, and the dcs are genuinely kind and inclusive. Parents are also covered by this code, racist behaviour would not be tolerated and would result in the loss of their dc's place at the school.

It is worth looking at the school code of conduct which should be available either from their website or the school office.

I'm sorry that you feel it necessary to ask the question, but sadly I understand why you do

The school code of conduct is clear that racist behaviour of any type is not tolerated and those responsible will be excluded. I am not aware of any issues

Visible, audible, punishable racist behaviour is not the point. It is the least a black parent has to worry about within the school environs.

Are you going to expel white teenage boys for not dating black teenage girls?

Are you going to expel teachers for vaguely, over years, not putting as much thought into helping to build strong personal statements for black children as for white? (Whether or not universities care about them; feeling you cannot compete is enough to discourage a child from engaging with the process.)

Are you going to exclude all the white parents for socialising amongst themselves and building contacts and strategies to benefit their children?

Being told that schools have produced written policies against racism is Not Actually As Astonishingly Useful As Some May Imagine.