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Black Mumsnetters

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I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

OP posts:
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Benelovencd · 20/03/2021 10:18

The BB article is spot on. I really hate the love and light away response to racism. It is just empty platitudes to shut you up while the status quo remains. I also hear the desire for unity and peace, as the desire for quiet, to stop talking about these issues and Black people to stop bringing it up to allow white people to continue existing in their peaceful bubble where they don't have to think about these issues or confront them as it is uncomfortable- at the expense of Black people. There is nothing "nice" about it.

I remember a tweet a few months ago. It was pretty tongue in cheek with a picture of a non-existent vacuum cleaner brand and a sentence in the manual giving instructions referencing women, then the next tweet said "Right feminists now that we have your attention and outrage please help being attention to Breonna Taylor's murder and sign this petition" or something to that effect. Cue lots of angry white women complaining about the misrepresentation, throwing their "Black" credentials etc., and it just highlighted how different we are and the things we prioritise. This tweet in the midst of BLM protests managed to get so much traction and response from ww, but a BW being murdered in her sleep by the police had relatively little support (at the stage) and more insinuations of wrong doing on her part and her boyfriend's. Literally a fake vacuum cleaner got more attention and protest than a Black woman's life

HmmmmmmInteresting · 20/03/2021 10:24

[quote RedMarauder]@Quaagars and everyone else stop using the term "casual racism".

Just call it what it is racism

After all you don't get "casual homophobia" do you?[/quote]
That's what I think whenever I read ' casual racism'

HmmmmmmInteresting · 20/03/2021 10:27

@Benelovencd, that vacuum story is sobering. Nobody on this thread would be surprised though!

HmmmmmmInteresting · 20/03/2021 10:40

The Facebook comments linked to at the bottom of the article are interesting.

KevinTheGoat · 20/03/2021 11:07

@Misbeehived

Well there are rather a lot of people on the feminist board lauding Lawrence Fox and claiming alt right isn’t a thing (only saw because it’s in active - Id never seek out the board). So yes I’d say there is fair amount of right wing feminism on mumsnet. On the other hand Get Out is satire of something so I’d say yes there is more than one way to purportedly be a feminist and a racist at the same time.
They would think that, it's not like it affectsTHEM. Even though a lot of prominent alt-righters are raging misogynists. Fox himself has issues with women, but he's anti-woke so of course FWR are going to suck up to him. When did feminism become about coddling racist mediocre right-wing men?

As for the Empire, I wish we had been taught more about it in school. We did do slavery, but that was in relation to American history, civil rights and so on. Most of what I know about the atrocities committed by the British is from my own research. Germany is open about the Holocaust, why can't we be like that about the Empire? It was relatively recent that Kenya became independent, for instance, it's hardly ancient history.

And as a Jew, I wish people would stop using us to make excuses for Churchill. He might not have been antisemitic like Hitler, but he certainly hated other marginalised groups - didn't he call Indians 'beastly'?

RedMarauder · 20/03/2021 12:11

As for the Empire, I wish we had been taught more about it in school. We did do slavery, but that was in relation to American history, civil rights and so on. Most of what I know about the atrocities committed by the British is from my own research. Germany is open about the Holocaust, why can't we be like that about the Empire?

It wouldn't suit the present governments policies for children to understand that even though the British people didn't like American racism to their troops, the British government was using racist policies to control the "natives" in the Empire and in the UK.

And as a Jew, I wish people would stop using us to make excuses for Churchill. He might not have been antisemitic like Hitler, but he certainly hated other marginalised groups - didn't he call Indians 'beastly'?

But that would go against the "divide and conquer" policy used to rule and control people through history.

ImaginaryDragon · 20/03/2021 17:28

Glad you are enjoying it. Smile

HmmmmmmInteresting · 20/03/2021 23:50

Fox himself has issues with women, but he's anti-woke so of course FWR are going to suck up to him. When did feminism become about coddling racist mediocre right-wing men?

They've lost their damn minds. Like I said, they just want what Caucasian males have. They'll do anything to get it. Even get in bed with lunatics.

Budsey · 21/03/2021 00:33

@FTMF30
just want to say I hear you I hear you .....the uk has a long way to go and we as ALL women can change this albeit at a frustratingly slow pace
we have to recognise each others life experiences ..I agree that if the case was of a black person going missing would there have been such a media outcry ? its up to us to change that and keep an eye on the media for missing persons/women regardless of their colour of
skin or community they are identified with ...and stand up and start asking the questions and sending the relevant social media posts
We as women can change this !!!
I know that the issue of feminism can sometimes lock out the rest of us it can some times come across as very elitist which it shouldn't do
feminism in my view is about inclusivity of ALL women and fighting for the rights of women ,- Feminist is often banded about (by men and some women ) as a derogatory term to try and minimise the fact that women are challenging the status quo...
it is very important if not essential that Black women are vocal in
their experiences and must not feel shut out or shut down
How on earth do we learn if we silence people through our small minded attitudes WE can start by listening !!!!!! And hearing !!! WE are stronger together !!!

HmmmmmmInteresting · 21/03/2021 01:40

2 min video but good. MSNBC journalist Tiffany Cross takes down Sharon Osbourne, talks about intersectionality and black women in the Suffragettes. Very relevant to topics that have been brought up in this thread

twitter.com/qsteph/status/1373297631087239171?s=09

Benelovencd · 21/03/2021 09:27

That clip is so accurate.

The Talk has been off air all week because CBS is trying to save Sharon's job and hopes people forget. They should just come out and do what they want to do which is make Sheryl take the blame and lose her job to keep Sharon. Just like ITV would have kept Piers on GMB if they could but since he still has his Life Stories and a new show - it is obvious where they stand.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 21/03/2021 09:33

@Benelovencd

That clip is so accurate.

The Talk has been off air all week because CBS is trying to save Sharon's job and hopes people forget. They should just come out and do what they want to do which is make Sheryl take the blame and lose her job to keep Sharon. Just like ITV would have kept Piers on GMB if they could but since he still has his Life Stories and a new show - it is obvious where they stand.

Yes it's so obvious. Why take it on a 'hiatus' and effectively suspend everyone when it's just Sharon that needs sacking suspending?Hmm

This clip starts a minute before the one I just posted and is better. Explains the Sharon Osbourne thing for those who don't know what that's about.
twitter.com/CrossConnection/status/1373303504345894914?s=09

FTMF30 · 21/03/2021 13:16

I tried to avoid that Sharon/Sheryl clip as I knew it would make me angry, but I couldn't help myself.

"Don't try and cry." The AUDACITY.

The thing that also gets me re. Piers is the amount of people who are jumping to his defence when he was not fired, he walked. He has already has other work lined up and his book has had a surge in sales. So much talk about "wokies" and cancel culture. From where I'm standing, Piers has not been cancelled.

You could see from The Tslk clip how Sheryl tried to approach the topic with kindness and even explained it's how SHE feels, pandering to Sharon's ego and white fragility ,but that was not good enough. Black women seemingly aren't allowed to feel. Sharon had a complete hissy fit, just like Piers, but the narrative is being spun so that she is somehow a victim. Lather, rinse, repeat.

OP posts:
KevinTheGoat · 21/03/2021 20:24

That's one of the most frustrating things about the whole Sharon Osbourne thing. White women can cry and go "boo hoo hoo, poor me, I'm such a victim" while black women are expected to be tough and strong and not show vulnerability.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 21/03/2021 23:55

Very true, but I don't suffer fools gladly anymore. Sheryl is a nicer woman than me. I would not have taken that nonsense (then would have been cancelled 🙄)

plumpuddisnice · 22/03/2021 09:58

fb.watch/4o8PJQQKX6/

This is Gina Yashere's take on it. I love Gina, she clearly calls out bullshit behaviour when she see's it and doesn't hold back.

Starseeking · 22/03/2021 11:43

This article is as relevant today as it was 2 years ago, when it was originally written.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/24/black-women-who-go-missing-are-neglected-in-a-way-white-women-arent-8882276/

HmmmmmmInteresting · 22/03/2021 19:53

@plumpuddisnice

https://fb.watch/4o8PJQQKX6/

This is Gina Yashere's take on it. I love Gina, she clearly calls out bullshit behaviour when she see's it and doesn't hold back.

"GET OFF OUR TITS"

This needs to be the phrase we use when the whitesplainer 'feminists' squat on our threads.
Love it.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 22/03/2021 20:19

[quote Starseeking]This article is as relevant today as it was 2 years ago, when it was originally written.

metro.co.uk/2019/03/24/black-women-who-go-missing-are-neglected-in-a-way-white-women-arent-8882276/[/quote]
Good piece. I have blocked the Daily Mail on my phone and my work already has it blocked on their server (thank you, my lovely employers!). We should all do he same and deny the trash tabloids any clicks (not just the Fail- The Sun, the Times, Telegraph, Mail on Sunday and any other anti-black publication). I must admit I loved scrolling the Fail's scroll of shame for titillation and to see who looks good in a bikini, but FUCK THAT, I'm not interested now I truly realise their agenda and realise they want to quosh black people.

M+H are vilified for talking to Oprah and Gail, but William and Kate are allowed to talk to 'sources' and leak everywhere. Their latest piece is "The Other Brother", which is so laughable, because you might as well call him 'Not Harry'. Using a picture that's seven years old and clearly photoshopped to capture him 'through his friends'. To try and regain some popularity. This is my attached screenshot.

When Meghan's friends spoke for her there was an outcry, but William is allowed to do it Hmm

This is the Other Brother 🤣🤣🤣
twitter.com/anne_marchant/status/1373195460643553283?s=19

HmmmmmmInteresting · 22/03/2021 20:20

I just realised I went off on a massive tangent there, but it's related: media bias and how it's harmful to black people.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 22/03/2021 20:22

Here's the screenshot:

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman -  am I alone?
Benelovencd · 22/03/2021 20:23

PR machine is working overtime

ProseccoSt · 22/03/2021 20:40

I agree with you op

Mn brand feminism is something I don’t even recognise. Literally the only topic is trans people, and on the rare occasion a feminist issue about something else crops up, it’s just a matter of time before someone will pop up and make it about trans stuff. The only time mn feminism cares about women who are not white and wealthy is when it’s using them as a gotcha in the trans debate. So you have mn fems wringing their hands about incarcerated women when it suits, then complaining that sisters uncut paid tribute to a woman who died in prison even though she had stabbed her mum 30 times. She was still an incarcerated woman with human rights ffs, you know, like the ones you’re pretending to care about? They’re not all in for not having tv licences you know. Then you have mn feminists appropriating muslim women when it comes to using them as a gotcha to protect single sex spaces, but lauding noted islamophobes like julie burchill and posie parker because ‘they tell it like it is’ or some bullshit. And don’t even get me started on how they talk to women who are in social housing. Vile

OutsideTheWhiteHouse · 22/03/2021 20:50

White woman here, just reading through the whole thread and finding it really interesting.

I’m definitely a feminist. From a working class Irish background, but probably qualify as a middle class liberal leftie white professional these days Grin.

I think in general people centre the fight they’re forced to engage with every day. For black women, that may be racism. For white women, who have white privilege, they may focus more on structural sexism / the patriarchy. It’s human nature, I guess.

I love the FWR boards on MN. In the truest sense of the word, I got ‘woke’ to what was going on with regards to trans rights and the erasure-by-stealth of the protected characteristic of sex and I just cannot un-see it now or disengage with this particular fight. I care deeply about all women’s rights, though, and I want to know what black women need from white feminists so that we can be true allies.

Anyway, sorry for waffling on! I originally jumped in to comment on use of ‘woke’ and why some women on FWR use it in a less than complimentary manner. I can’t speak for others, but I think it refers to (at least I know when I use ‘woke’ with an eye roll it refers to) the hypocrisy of the ‘acceptable’ face of equality and diversity. Usually but not exclusively white people who will virtual signal on every human right going and jump on whatever the latest ‘cause to support if you want to be seen to be a good human being’, but will happily throw women under the bus at every opportunity. There’s some real cognitive dissonance going on with the women who do this and just straight up old fashioned misogyny with the men. It certainly doesn’t mean I agree with right wing Americans or God forbid Laurence Fox. #IBelieveMeghan

Wink
Starseeking · 22/03/2021 21:06

@Benelovencd

PR machine is working overtime

The PR machine never turns itself off.

I saw that the Duchess of Cambridge (sans mask) attended the vigil on Clapham Common for the white lady who was recently allegedly murdered by the policeman.

The level of fawning and "isn't she fabulous showing her solidarity for a slain sister" was unrivalled compared to anything I've seen on MN. It got me thinking what the reaction would have been had the Duchess of Sussex done the same thing, and I'm pretty sure people would have been vociferous in painting her as attention seeking and self centred.

While I'm not suggesting that everything the Duchess of Sussex has done since joining the Royal Family has been perfect, the portrayal of her in the media and by the British public is a classic study in misogynoir.

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