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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
JillianABlackMNer · 16/03/2021 23:26

@Starseeking I agree.

MissKeithsNeice · 17/03/2021 05:55

it's comforting to know my feelings are justified. Before, I had this internal conflict, but now it's as though a weight is being lifted.

This really resonates with me. I have found a lot of relief from your thread. Thank you for starting it.

NewYearNewTwatName · 17/03/2021 06:23

Hi FTMF30
going solely on your OP, if you feeling alienated by feminism in general, have you looked at lipstick alley feminism board?

It might be a breath of fresh air, if you haven't seen it already.

C130 · 17/03/2021 08:24

I agree with Starseeking, just ignore and report the posts. I think sometimes the moderators cannot see certain things on here.

DolphinDreams · 17/03/2021 08:42

OP I recognise the truth of what you write, and I speak as a white feminist. I see too the terrible violence and inequality of the racism faced by black people the world over.

So I understand well why you might want to turn away from a feminist movement you see as largely white. But it saddens me. Because black women face everything that privileged white feminists face, they just face much more than that too. But black women need someone to fight and win the struggles the feminists are waging.

I also think MM faces racism from the UK press and nation. But remember the misogyny Diana faced? That lies in wait for all women, even if we could defeat racism.

Women , as half of humanity, will never all stand together. But we have to keep trying.

RedMarauder · 17/03/2021 09:33

I am also disappointed with @MNHQ's moderation and letting comments aimed to derailing the thread and antagonising BW stand. Equal parts disappointing and disgusting

For those saying report racist posts, the above is MN attitude to posts that are racist unless the racism is blatant.

I post on other forums and posters don't get away with posting racist posts regardless of whether the racism is covert or not. Posts telling other posters to bog off who post racist things, that are derailing a thread or just trolling aren't deleted.

This is because the forums aren't the companies who run them main means of earning money.

Quaagars · 17/03/2021 10:03

RedMarauder
Agree, it's just so insidious, so much so it's harder to pick up on because it's not blatant.
The demands for 'receipts' (ie proof) but when it's given, it's never enough and demands for more start.
Being told it didn't happen, or you're imagining things even when in some instances the words are right in front of you.
Little things like that, not everyone can or is inclined to pick up on and that's where it falls down on here.

DioneTheDiabolist · 17/03/2021 11:42

Numerous accusations have been made, no evidence given and any attempt at discussion leads to further accusations of whitesplaining etc.

Plenty of evidence was given about threads here where racism was very much in evidence, is your Search function broken @Impatiensl?

MolyHolyGuacamole · 17/03/2021 13:32

I am also disappointed with @MNHQ's moderation and letting comments aimed to derailing the thread and antagonising BW stand. Equal parts disappointing and disgusting

Agreed. I had my most recent comment deleted because I asked that poster to leave us alone and stop harassing us and demanding mental labour. I didn't even swear. But her comments still remain. Says a lot.

EchoCardioGran · 17/03/2021 14:02

Overt racist content on other threads will have been deleted if reported.
A check with MNHQ will confirm this.

The microaggression/ covert stuff is there....but what's the point trying to explain to those determined not to listen? As the saying goes:

"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their own level, and then beat you with experience."

Don't fall into the trap of linking to other threads, or make this thread about one poster, (who in their own words, did not describe themselves as Black, nor an ally)

I'd like to hear more from BMN. That's why we are here.

If there's goady fuckery, ( as opposed to honest discussion) press the report button, report, and move on.

And I'm guessing by the time I've typed all this out, the thread has moved on.
Grin

EchoCardioGran · 17/03/2021 14:09

Hello MolyHoly glad you are back, worried you'd been put on time out.
I have it on good authority that the demander of "receipts" has been asked to move on elsewhere.

MangoBiscuit · 17/03/2021 14:58

I haven't read all of the thread yet, I will come back after work to do so. I'm a white woman, and I read and post on the feminism boards. I also haven't seen a lot of what I've read about on this thread so far. I don't think for a second that this means it hasn't happened, I think it means that I haven't spotted it. That I've been blissfully unaware. If I've been on a thread, and I've missed some of this shit, and I didn't speak up when I should have, I am sorry. I'm going to read the rest of this thread later, and try to get a better understanding.

@ImaginaryDragon Thank you for the reading recommendations, I've ordered the first one.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 17/03/2021 15:45

@EchoCardioGran

Hello MolyHoly glad you are back, worried you'd been put on time out. I have it on good authority that the demander of "receipts" has been asked to move on elsewhere.
Intriguing. How do you know?
EchoCardioGran · 17/03/2021 16:35

My guardian angels told me Hmmm.
They are usually fairly reliable.Wink

HmmmmmmInteresting · 17/03/2021 16:39

@EchoCardioGran

My guardian angels told me Hmmm. They are usually fairly reliable.Wink
Just tried to PM you several times, but I think MN is stopping me. I am able to post on the boards with no problem Hmm
EchoCardioGran · 17/03/2021 16:42

Have sent you a pm.

EchoCardioGran · 17/03/2021 16:47

It's not MN. Sorry ....I had a block on incoming messages. Which is from a while back when I was last here, due to some strange messages.
I'd forgotten to take it off.

Mookie81 · 17/03/2021 18:23

This thread has been very interesting, but not at all surprising.
We should be happy to engage with those who come along and actually listen and want to learn.
Those who just want to antagonise- please, please, please don't engage. I have been guilty of responding in the past but it just uses up my mental energy and is frankly a waste of time; they are not interested in learning and growing and just want to derail. We won't change their mind, they won't have an epiphany!

FTMF30 · 17/03/2021 19:30

@Mookie81

This thread has been very interesting, but not at all surprising. We should be happy to engage with those who come along and actually listen and want to learn. Those who just want to antagonise- please, please, please don't engage. I have been guilty of responding in the past but it just uses up my mental energy and is frankly a waste of time; they are not interested in learning and growing and just want to derail. We won't change their mind, they won't have an epiphany!
Definitely agree. I really don't mind engaging with others and it is true that some will see BMN conversations come up in the active thread and be curious.

Still, it's plainly obvious what section a thread is under and, if you choose to engage, you should do so with that in mind. I can't wrap my head around the attitude of some that insert themselves into a space with a sense of entitlement, misinterpreting what's said and making demands.

Ignoring troublemakers is definitely the best course of action on this forum, but it's a type of self discipline I'm also guilty of sometimes not exercising 😬

OP posts:
FTMF30 · 17/03/2021 19:53

@NewYearNewTwatName I'd forgotten about Lipstick Alley actually. I've checked it out before but I must admit I found it hard to navigate. I do tend to just go on forums when I'm on my phone though. I should give it another look when I'm on a better device. Thanks.

OP posts:
Hufflepuffmamma · 17/03/2021 21:13

@DolphinDreams - love this.

Also OP - I would like to live in this thread forever thanks for creating. I feel relief that I am not alone.

ImaginaryDragon · 18/03/2021 16:06

You are welcome. It would be great to hear what your thoughts are if you feel comfortable sharing after reading both books.

ImaginaryDragon · 18/03/2021 16:10

@MangoBiscuit

That was a reply to your post about the books Smile

HmmmmmmInteresting · 18/03/2021 21:15

I don't watch the loathesome Good Morning Britain, but I came across this on my twitter feed. A young black man speaking up for BW:

twitter.com/Comanda_x/status/1372474619307917318?s=09

MangoBiscuit · 19/03/2021 07:21

@ImaginaryDragon I've just started White Fragility, it arrived yesterday. WINLTTWPAR is in my basket.

First thoughts, it's well written, and I can recognize some of the responses she talks about. I've seen them, and they've always totally baffled me, and pissed me off. Now I can kind of see why some people react to racism being pointed out, with anger. Not that it's the right reaction, but I can see the route they took there. Looking forward to reading the rest.

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