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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

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Gerla · 16/03/2021 19:36

Maybe it would be better to go have a discussion about that disagreement there and not here.
If you think the original comment made by Tedmullins was off-topic why didn't you ask them to post elsewhere? Confused Perhaps you don't realise that starting a new thread about what is written here would be against MN rules?

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 19:37

@TedMullins

Perfect example of this today was a thread where someone’s partner dismissed feminism as ‘identity politics’ and said the Clapham vigil would alienate men because it made them angry and defensive (I’m paraphrasing, but that was the gist). The replies were full of ‘I see what he means because BLM and trans rights are identity politics and turn me away from the cause’. A perfect hat trick of misogyny, racism and transphobia. I was honestly open-mouthed reading it (and I’m white - not trying to be a performative ally but I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with you).
I saw that too Ted. Glad it was not just me thinking wtf.

As for the poster demanding examples of racism on FWR?
If I see it, I report racism seen on MN anywhere.

It serves no useful purpose re posting racist content on an open forum just to titillate others.

Quaagars · 16/03/2021 19:37

Amy Cooper was mentioned on the thread, with another load of accusations without any evidence to back them up

Just seen this - right, if you're justifying what Amy Cooper did, lumping in with "another load of accusations and no evidence to back up"
you say it all right there.
You don't really want to be educated at all.
Not responding any further and I hope others don't too.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 19:37

I honestly think people should not engage. Numerous bits of 'evidence' have been given but the squatter chooses to ignore that and keeps repeating the broken record 'eDuCaTe mE!'

Quaagars · 16/03/2021 19:39

Cross posted with you there @HmmmmmmInteresting - agree

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 19:40

@Gerla

Maybe it would be better to go have a discussion about that disagreement there and not here. If you think the original comment made by Tedmullins was off-topic why didn't you ask them to post elsewhere? Confused Perhaps you don't realise that starting a new thread about what is written here would be against MN rules?
Well private message your mate then, or start a group on Parler.
Benelovencd · 16/03/2021 19:42

@Gerla

Maybe it would be better to go have a discussion about that disagreement there and not here. If you think the original comment made by Tedmullins was off-topic why didn't you ask them to post elsewhere? Confused Perhaps you don't realise that starting a new thread about what is written here would be against MN rules?
You are coming here to disagree about comments made on another thread, I'm redirecting you back to said thread to discuss if it was a misrepresentation there. We don't need to know. Bye
Gerla · 16/03/2021 19:44

Well private message your mate then, or start a group on Parler.
Eh? That doesn't make sense. I was referring to a previous poster. If the post I was quoting was off-topic, why not tell the poster, not me?

Gerla · 16/03/2021 19:46

You are coming here to disagree about comments made on another thread,
No, I'm not. I'm commenting on a post made on THIS thread which several posters have referred to but I'm apparently the only person told to go to a different site. Confused

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 19:48

@HmmmmmmInteresting

I honestly think people should not engage. Numerous bits of 'evidence' have been given but the squatter chooses to ignore that and keeps repeating the broken record 'eDuCaTe mE!'
Agreed. Moving on...
lakespring · 16/03/2021 19:48

Sorry impatiens, I hadn't understood you are part of the bame community.
I'll let you get on with posting on your boards without butting in.

plumpuddisnice · 16/03/2021 19:55

@Lessthanaballpark

The whole Sarah Everard case has really highlighted that feminism is for certain types of women. There absolutely should be uproar at what has happened to Sarah but where is the uproar about black women who are murdered.

Wouldn’t you say this is down to the media who decides on what to report.

It would be interesting to contact Karen Ingala Smith and ask her or just to take her list and see how much media fanfare has come with each murder.

I mean it would be mightily depressing but it would be an excellent way to show the disparity in reporting.

Yes it would be interesting to see the reporting stats based on ethnicity.

I take your point that the coverage falls at the hands of the media but as I said earlier I did heard about Nicole and Bibaa's case on MN and many posters were saying that more coverage was needed of the case and were expressing their disgust at the Met taking selfie's with their dead bodies, but there wasn't the outrage as in Sarah's case.

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 20:09

@Quaagars

Amy Cooper was mentioned on the thread, with another load of accusations without any evidence to back them up

Just seen this - right, if you're justifying what Amy Cooper did, lumping in with "another load of accusations and no evidence to back up"
you say it all right there.
You don't really want to be educated at all.
Not responding any further and I hope others don't too.

You've scolded me for not reading you post properly and you're doing exactly the same - I'm not justifying Amy Cooper, I'm saying it's been claimed that FWR defended her and were racist but as usual no evidence at all.
MolyHolyGuacamole · 16/03/2021 20:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

RedMarauder · 16/03/2021 21:07

I take your point that the coverage falls at the hands of the media but as I said earlier I did heard about Nicole and Bibaa's case on MN and many posters were saying that more coverage was needed of the case and were expressing their disgust at the Met taking selfie's with their dead bodies, but there wasn't the outrage as in Sarah's case.

I'm in London and the only reason I know I heard of Nicole and Bibaa's case is because their mother was an archdeacon, so knew something or someone who know about gaining some London media attention.

I personally have links to people in the London media which I had since I left university decades ago. However it's only in the last few years it's been mentioned to me that they need stories so I have been trying to get them to promote news stories with black woman and girls in them.

It has been more successful since BLM but I notice in all cases the black woman/girl has to be the "right type of black person" for them to take any interest. Even then the stories aren't always picked up unless another outlet runs with it.

Funnily I remember reading/hearing about Rosa Parks and the fact she was chosen to be the face and name of the Montgomery bus boycott because she was the "right type of black person" to white people. The actual black girl who refused to get up was from a background that the media and white society would have destroyed her life.

The reason I say "black person" not woman, girl or female is because the standard exists regardless whether you are female or male. George Floyd has illustrated clearly this standard still exists for black people in the 21st century.

RedMarauder · 16/03/2021 21:12

It seems that some on this thread are using the playbook to try to get this thread deleted.

It is well known on MN that you can't post about another thread in a thread otherwise the thread gets deleted.

Lessthanaballpark · 16/03/2021 21:16

Oh wow! I just did a quick google on the two names "Sarah Everard" and "Bibaa Henry".

One returned 19,000 results. The other returned 21 million!

Even if you take out the extra shock value of the Met policeman that's just ridiculous.

Benelovencd · 16/03/2021 21:30

@RedMarauder

It seems that some on this thread are using the playbook to try to get this thread deleted.

It is well known on MN that you can't post about another thread in a thread otherwise the thread gets deleted.

I'm not shocked but so disappointed non-Black posters can't leave BW to discuss their own issues amongst themselves. BMN is for Black posters to discuss issues in the Black community.

I am also disappointed with @MNHQ's moderation and letting comments aimed to derailing the thread and antagonising BW stand. Equal parts disappointing and disgusting.

JillianABlackMNer · 16/03/2021 21:44

I have to say this. I think it takes more than one person to derail a thread unless that poster enjoys replying to himself/herself, then they may spam the thread with posts just for fun.

Still, if posters ignore(d) their post and talked around them, they'd be bored and leave. No need to keep repeating "go away" in many different ways - some people enjoy that sort of attention and riling others up. As they say, silence is the best answer...

plumpuddisnice · 16/03/2021 21:47

@Lessthanaballpark

Oh wow! I just did a quick google on the two names "Sarah Everard" and "Bibaa Henry".

One returned 19,000 results. The other returned 21 million!

Even if you take out the extra shock value of the Met policeman that's just ridiculous.

Wow

Point proven

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 21:50

Going back to your post Red. I live a long way from London, ( still UK)
Your comments about the "right type of person" ring so true here out in the sticks.

Starseeking · 16/03/2021 22:04

@JillianABlackMNer

I have to say this. I think it takes more than one person to derail a thread unless that poster enjoys replying to himself/herself, then they may spam the thread with posts just for fun.

Still, if posters ignore(d) their post and talked around them, they'd be bored and leave. No need to keep repeating "go away" in many different ways - some people enjoy that sort of attention and riling others up. As they say, silence is the best answer...

I agree with this, and have said it many times on BMN; when the derailers, whataboutters, deniers, gaslighters and outright racists appear, the quickest way to get rid of them is to ignore their posts. They hate that. Don't engage at all, not even to ask them to leave (because they won't), just talk around them and they soon get bored.

At this point they usually become goady to try to generate a reaction...ignore, ignore, ignore.

I really enjoy the topics we discuss on BMN, but at times it can be weary watching these situations play out, particularly as you can see said poster will continue to deny, deny and deny the lived experience of Black women until they're blue in the face.

I spend enough time challenging racism in the real world, I don't have the energy levels to continue to do so on BMN. If that means a goady poster continues to rant to themselves, so be it 🤷🏿‍♀️

KevinTheGoat · 16/03/2021 22:18

@RedMarauder

I take your point that the coverage falls at the hands of the media but as I said earlier I did heard about Nicole and Bibaa's case on MN and many posters were saying that more coverage was needed of the case and were expressing their disgust at the Met taking selfie's with their dead bodies, but there wasn't the outrage as in Sarah's case.

I'm in London and the only reason I know I heard of Nicole and Bibaa's case is because their mother was an archdeacon, so knew something or someone who know about gaining some London media attention.

I personally have links to people in the London media which I had since I left university decades ago. However it's only in the last few years it's been mentioned to me that they need stories so I have been trying to get them to promote news stories with black woman and girls in them.

It has been more successful since BLM but I notice in all cases the black woman/girl has to be the "right type of black person" for them to take any interest. Even then the stories aren't always picked up unless another outlet runs with it.

Funnily I remember reading/hearing about Rosa Parks and the fact she was chosen to be the face and name of the Montgomery bus boycott because she was the "right type of black person" to white people. The actual black girl who refused to get up was from a background that the media and white society would have destroyed her life.

The reason I say "black person" not woman, girl or female is because the standard exists regardless whether you are female or male. George Floyd has illustrated clearly this standard still exists for black people in the 21st century.

I've seen this a lot re Floyd, the whole 'well he was a criminal and pointed a gun at a pregnant woman, he had it coming'. That still isn't justification for the police crushing him to death. And they also forget, or deliberately ignore the fact, that innocent black people have died at the hands of the police. Elijah McClain for instance - I'm autistic, so that story got to me, a lot. Especially the way in which he was killed.

Even Breonna Taylor, who was a paramedic, had people making up all sorts of excuses for the police. Saying her boyfriend had drugs or whatever. It's sick.

I would never have known about Bibaa and Nicole had it not been for BMN.

Lessthanaballpark · 16/03/2021 22:25

Funnily I remember reading/hearing about Rosa Parks and the fact she was chosen to be the face and name of the Montgomery bus boycott because she was the "right type of black person" to white people.

It’s as if white men, being the default and visibly the majority, can be varied and have flaws but if you’re in a minority you’re seen as representative of that minority and therefore you have to be perfect.

FTMF30 · 16/03/2021 23:03

The way this thread has evolved has made me firm in my position.

There's been some great contributions and the derailers have just made my initial feelings stronger than ever.

I had been thinking about starting this thread for a long time but was apprehensive about doing it for a few reasons. Now I'm glad I did. It's great to have a BMN section and hear from people who share the same thoughts. It can feel lonely being a black woman, especially when you don't speak our (as I am often guilty of). But it's comforting to know my feelings are justified. Before, I had this internal conflict, but now it's as though a weight is being lifted.

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