Reparations

[africanmixedkid]

Can we talk about this?
It's something that I feel needs to discussed and a collective campaign to force countries responsible for the slave trade to address. Black mumsnetters what do you think?

The UK has gained huge wealth off of the back of the slave trade. eastmidlandsbylines.co.uk/whose-ill-gotten-gains/

Reparations is something I hear many of the black community shout. But how do we go about getting this?

Why don't the families that received compensation for slave ownership return the compensation?

Exactly!

@DuaneAgain

I can't think of a worse idea than giving millions to corrupt dictatorships. It would get spent on weapons and mansions.

Perhaps it might be worthwhile to consider exactly why and how these 'corrupt dictatorships' came to exist? ...

Why don't the families that received compensation for slave ownership return the compensation?

You think it's just sitting somewhere in a bank account?

@DuaneAgain

I can't think of a worse idea than giving millions to corrupt dictatorships. It would get spent on weapons and mansions.

Because the UK government is not corrupt?

Not to mention all the countries you are tarring with the same brush.

I'm smelling the strong scent of racism here.

I do wonder, why do people come onto black Mumsnet with racism. It's ALL OVER THESE THREADS. AND IT STINKS.

Dictatorships are often created by Western powers meddling and inserting a leader sympathetic to their cause until they turn on them then they become dictators.

And FUCK OFF with that. You DON'T GET TO DICTATE HOW MONEY THAT ISN'T YOURS IS SPENT, IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. THE PEOPLE OF THOSE COUNTRIES CAN ADVOCATE FOR THEMSELVES. YOUR BUSINESS ENDS IN REPAYING A DEBT - nothing more. You don't get to stay and tell people what they can and can't do with their money and resources. SO WHAT? IT'S STILL FUCKING OWED TO THEM. And people wonder why they are so FUCKING universally hated. Because of CUNTISH RACIST SHIT like this

Our country is on it's knees at the minute and with the double whammy of Brexit things are unlikely to improve anytime soon.

I just feel blessed to have a relatively stable job and skills which are short in supply. They can use my reparations to help people that are actually currently in enslavement, which is something I've never experienced.

I'm aware I probably come across as dismissive, but this is just my personal opinion and nobody is obliged to heed it - I am significantly more careful about what I say in real life due to the consequences that can arise nowadays when one says 'the wrong thing' - loss of employment, social media pile ons, etc.

But personally I am not a big fan of the grievance culture which seems so prevalent today. Oppression contests and privilege showdowns. My sister has a white friend who is really into radical feminism and honestly I find her intolerable.

She works in the same industry as her younger brother and always complains that he has gone further because of the patriarchy. Whilst I don't disagree that men have certain advantages I'm convinced that in her case it is just because her brother is a really nice individual who always tries to see the positive side whilst she had a slightly moody demeanour and always seems to fall out with the other women at work.

Her brother has many common interests and can talk to anybody, whilst she is only really interested in her own little sphere of oppression and online cliques. She also always has bright pink or blue hair and facial piercings which she is very defensive of for 'personal expression'. In her defence she seems very knowledgeable about her job and seems to generally do well, but in the conservative world of financial management looking like a rebel can put off more old school conservative clients and that's the price you pay (but which she won't admit is the case, it's all down to oppression).

I absolutely believe in structural oppression but I also believe that far too many people use it as an excuse for personal shortcomings.

Saw thread title and had just listened to this podcast - connected - Re inherited wealth disparity and how racism was and still is increasing this. US based. Thought provoking.
podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stuff-you-should-know/id278981407?i=1000508582300

Reparations could simply be used for specific infrastructure projects. Energy, education, healthcare, transport to name a few.

Many colonised and enslaved countries are still so underdeveloped in these areas that they can't begin to help themselves.

My opinion is individual giving is too complicated a process and this is where the real difference can be made.

We also need to have this conversation alongside continuing exploitative loan conditions.

Just a thought, what about black people who owned slaves? Where does that put their decedents?

I’m have slave ancestry via Brazil.
I support reparations, but for example believe my family is not one that should be eligible because the family was very mixed and has some huge advantages as well.
I heard a very interesting podcast that proposed means tested baby bonds as a form of reparations. Since families of colour in the UK and USA have a much harder time building inter generational wealth, baby bonds could be a mechanism for rebalancing institutionalised disadvantage. This could be a clearer system to put in place legally as well.

[quote NLisa]^@DuaneAgain
And as other posters have mentioned, how are other groups like Native Americans going to feel when Black Americans get reparations and they don't? Or Jews, Irish, etc.^

I kept going back and forth about how to respond to this without getting rude.

For some reason whenever black people want something for themselves, the whole world expects us to think about everyone else. And put ourselves last. Our pain and suffering is always being portrayed as selfish because other people are suffering as well. BLM vs All lives Mather is a good example of this.

The Jews have had acknowledgment, excuses and some form of reparations. With regards to WWII. The native Americans have received a special status in American with land, free schooling and other benefits. Germany had to pay Europe for the effects of WWII.

When those payments where being distributed nobody said, hey hold on a minute how would the black people feel about this. Our interest is always an afterthought. So why should we care about all the other groups that are already being cared for.[/quote]
From a Jewish point of view, I fully support reparations in whatever way the Black communities think is best.

Countries need to take responsibility for their legacies, and address the systemic injustices that still exist. I would be happy for my taxes to go towards that.

I've been thinking for a while about whether to post here or not. It may not be welcomed, and I'll accept it if that's the case.

I've studied the history (and present) of slavery for a long time. Yes, the UK played their part BUT slavery was the standard worldwide. The slave trade was fully established in Africa with the Arab countries 1000 years before anyone in Europe had made their way there. They traded on the East Coast, millions of slaves for goods. They castrated the males to stop them reproducing. Full castration of penis and testicle, 6 out of 10 boys bled to death. THIS ONLY BECAME ILLEGAL IN THE 1960s. The women were bought for the sex industry and their offspring killed at birth. They had already invented plantations.

The West Coast, specifically Benin, traded with Europe. Portugal bought the first slaves and the most. Spain was next, then Britain.

3 centuries of trading between Africa and Britain. Wealthy African leaders sold their slaves. When the UK made noise about abolishing slavery, Africa said they would do anything Britain asks of them, except stop slavery and trading. It was their biggest asset and symbol of their status and wealth.

Were Britain responsible for millions of deaths and abhorrent treatment of black African people for 300 years? Partly, yes absolutely! Should there be reparations for this? I'm not sure.

I think there is undeniable inequality and racism here today. Without a doubt that needs fixing. Money spent on funding black communities, research for black specific health conditions, education. A cash injection into black owned businesses.
Let's give give black people in this country a chance of levelling the playing field.
A lot of those people are here from the Windrush generation and I think compensation for that would be justified. Reparations for slavery, I don't know. The whole world's history is steeped in slavery, the Atlantic slave trade was only unique due to how far the slaves were traded.

Slavery wasn't started as a white against black thing, it was a rich against poor thing. We have a divide between colour and culture now, and it's insidious. We need to stamp that out. Modern day Racism is what we need to work on.

C130
The Government found the money to pay compensation to the slave owners for the lost of their slaves. The money would have came from taxpayers I take it

Exactly. Up to 2015.

& Whataboutery folk with their 20 convoluted questions on this thread should be summarily ignored.

Reparations here should go to Diaspora Africans - African Caribbeans as descendants of enslaved Africans.

It's an insult that slave owners' descendants were compensated whilst descendants of enslaved Africans have not received a penny.

I also feel African countries should offer free land to descendants of enslaved Africans wishing to return. Whichever country one chooses, aside from Ethiopia of course.

There are organisations campaigning for this. A way forward would be these organisations unifying. No need to re-invent the wheel it just causes splintering.

For some reason whenever black people want something for themselves, the whole world expects us to think about everyone else. And put ourselves last. Our pain and suffering is always being portrayed as selfish because other people are suffering as well. BLM vs All lives Matter is a good example of this

^This.

Hence the boring racesplaining and Whitesplaining.

I really wish people would just ignore them. They've nothing better to do, waiting for Black Women to speak then landing with their dry racist observations.

We need to remember that this board came about due to extreme racism towards a Black poster, including doxxing, and racists shouldn't be given attention here.

They can chat their rubbish, we don't have to read through it.
Just talk around it.

Im going to assume that's aimed at me. You can call me racist if you like, it doesn't make it true. You don't know me, my heritage or the reason why studying slavery and racism is important to me.

It's an insult that slave owners' descendants were compensated whilst descendants of enslaved Africans have not received a penny.

I agree, it cost Britain 20 million to end slavery. At the time, there was no real choice in that. So how would you like that paid back? As individual, personal payments?

You and your children are being disadvantaged by today's racism, that is coming from the very top. Prisons are profitable organisations. There is a reason why so many black youths are inside for long sentences over minor crimes and why they are stuck in an endless cycle of in and out of prison. There is a reason why nothing is done to tackle gangs and drugs. There's a reason why intelligent black people are not given a platform and a voice. Knowledge is power. They would much prefer it if black people stayed in their lane and lived up to the stereotypes forced upon them. Same goes for all women and the working class.

I have no say on how potential reparations should be paid. Nonetheless, I want to shine a beacon of light and funding onto these issues so future generations don't have to live through this shit.

Alongside compensating the descendants of enslaved Africans - which can be done as easily as they compensated descendants of slaveowners and also take into account how The Caribbean was completely drained of riches and resources by greedy colonisers, which impacts unto today -

African artefacts held by the British Museum and similar should be returned. There are still Museums in the UK holding African human remains. So abhorrent, and another reason why dialogue with racists is a waste of time; this is yet another of the issues they actively choose to ignore, whilst trying to blindside you with endless derogatory Whitesplaining/racesplaining chatter.

Some remains have been returned, with ancestral ceremony by the receiving relatives, performed at venue. Sad, and poignant..some had to retrieve the head of their Ancestor.

So yes, reparations all round.

Had a conversation been started on that subject and I'd seen it I would be agreeing with all of that. So please don't make assumptions about me.

So let's say all artefacts are returned, reparations are paid financial balance is restored. Then what?

Complete madness, sorry.

I get the feeling the government will be saying they've paid their dues and you should be using that money to 'better yourselves' not their job, they paid you off like you asked, so off you go. Will everyone be banging on the door of number 10? No, they'll be fighting amongst themselves. Divide and conquer at its finest 👌

The UK government, along with every other government, are corrupt to the core. They are racist, classist, sexist and most other 'ists'

I'll not make anymore comments, although I do think it's an important topic. I hope you get the backing of enough people to make it happen and I hope I'm wrong about the first paragraph.

africanmixedkid

Meant to add on previous comment - there is 1 organisation quite prominent on reparations. Another on return of artefacts.

Germany are in the process of returning artefacts. UK - as ever, it's 'discussions' but there are further meetings with them scheduled.

So, we'll see. It's good that it's on the table now due to some unified work in getting it there.

& not before time that there's discussion and moving forward from that. Not just talk, as per last Summer's 'We support Black lives/Black lives matter empty lip service statements (the black squares thing) from organisations who've been found not to practise what they preach at all.

I don't think we can blame white people for the actions of their ancestors.

I do think reparations can be made in way of returning stolen art and handing back control of gold and diamond mining though.

However, this doesn't please the many who want financial compensation for something they've never experienced.

From what I can see, it's mostly American and UK black citizens who are for reparation.

If the focus was on those still in Africa, the majority would have zero interest.

Good luck having a reasonable discussion about this on mumsnet, even on the black mumsnetters forum.