Reparations

[africanmixedkid]

Can we talk about this?
It's something that I feel needs to discussed and a collective campaign to force countries responsible for the slave trade to address. Black mumsnetters what do you think?

The UK has gained huge wealth off of the back of the slave trade. eastmidlandsbylines.co.uk/whose-ill-gotten-gains/

Reparations is something I hear many of the black community shout. But how do we go about getting this?

(Damn keyboard!)

@PursuingProxemicExactitude

HmmSureJan - this is a discussion, on the Black Mumsnetters board, about reparations.

It is perhaps not an appropriate forum for you to set about demolishing the thoughts and experiences expressed by blacks people.

Surely you have something better to do?

I did no such thing. I have posted carefully and respectfully on this thread - see my few previous posts. But I won't allow sweeping, offensive accusations like that to go unchallenged. I won't post again for fear of de-railing the thread. I'm aware that happens all too often in such discussions and my voice is irrelevant on the actual subject matter of the thread. Untrue is untrue though, just like your claim that I am attempting to suppress your voice. Must be nice to always have that to fall back on and know that most people won't dare to challenge it.

@silentpool

Curious to see everyone's view on the complicity of certain African countries and societies in the slave trade? Surely, there needs to be an honest discussion around this too? If those countries have profited from oil or mineral wealth, say (looking at you, Nigeria), is there not a reasonable case for reparations to come from them too? At the very least, the complicity should be fully acknowledged, as Benin has done. This would be as complex as trying to sort out who should be responsible for reparations in Western countries- in Africa, you would find descendants of people who had lost family to the slave trade as well as descendants from those who captured and sold them to the Europeans.

I bet you're curious!

I doubt you could even grasp the impact on black unity between Black Caribbean and African descendants , something that is only just now being formed.

[quote africanmixedkid]@Flaxmeadow whether the government wanted to pay or not is irrelevant. The fact is they paid this compensation to slave owners and their descendants until as recent as 2015. The facts are that this was paid due to loss of income through the abolition of slavery. The owners lost their assets. Their human assets.

Why can't this argument be applied to the slaves and their descendants? Why can't they be compensated for their loss. Loss of earnings. Loss of life. Loss of family ties through being kidnapped from their home country. Through the loss of bodily autonomy. Through the loss of consent. Through the fact they were raped, mutilated, tortured and murdered. And through the fact that their descendants are still wrangling the after affects of all of the above? Why can't they be compensated too? Whether the governments wants to or not. [/quote]
I don't think that is quite right. I think they paid the compensation back in the 19th century but British tax payers were still paying off the loans until 2015. For tax payers it was the same difference but for the people receiving the money it is different.

Why don't the families that received compensation for slave ownership return the compensation? I suppose it would be very complicated to work out. Say one of your ancestors got compensation in the 1830s, how many children did they have and how many children did those children have? Did all the children, GC, GGC inherit equally. What if the ancestor who got the money spent it all and nothing got passed on or he left it to his mistress or favourite charity rather than his children?

@HmmSureJan

The purpose of reparation is not to punish perpetrators ("But, look, none of them our alive now!) but to repair the damage done to those who inherit a legacy of ill treatment.

Genuine question. How much would it take to repair that damage and to forge a different outcome for the descendants both those here already and the ones arriving in the future? I should imagine only a very substantial sum could do that, which is not something that would ever be agreed to. Is it more acknowledgment you're seeking and the payment is symbolic of that?

An amount that is proportionate to enable slave descendants to contribute towards building generational wealth. You know...like slave owner descendants have.

My husband and children are the descendants of slaves and slave owners so not sure how that would work for them. Their ancestors who are known to be the children of a black female slave and a slave owner did not inherit anything so would that exempt them?

@ancientgran so what! Slave descendants are slave descendants whether they are the descendants of slave owners or not. It isn't rocket science to figure out how they became the descendants of slave owners.

They shouldn't be exempt because their ancestors were raped by savages who kidnapped them and moved them to the other side of the world. It's a moral given, that they wouldn't be exempt.

@PursuingProxemicExactitude

It was me who said that africanmixedkid. And I'm really struggling. So much of what I'm reading here is simply - gobsmacking. I want to respond - but I'm tying myself in knots because the actual truth is not something I'd want to go to the effort of expressing here.

Im struggling with the sheer ignorance and stupidity of some of these posts. In fact, I don't feel some of it is blind ignorance or stupidity, some are being goady fuckers on purpose to get a rise!

I mean the sheer sense of entitlement that someone must have, to step on to a board, directly aimed at black women, that discusses the reparation of some of the most discriminated race in the world after they were enslaved for 100s of years and call them grabby are not the actions of someone who is misguided or doesn't realise what they're doing. They know exactly what they're doing. And yes this is aimed at you @Mothersruin1

[quote africanmixedkid]@ancientgran so what! Slave descendants are slave descendants whether they are the descendants of slave owners or not. It isn't rocket science to figure out how they became the descendants of slave owners.

They shouldn't be exempt because their ancestors were raped by savages who kidnapped them and moved them to the other side of the world. It's a moral given, that they wouldn't be exempt. [/quote]
It can be more complicated though. On one of the plantations where his ancestors lived the plantation owner had a family with one of his slaves. He freed her, she lived as his wife apparently although not legally married. Their children inherited the plantation. They then became the slave owners.

I don't think it is always easy.

I paid my taxes for 46 years to replay the loans to pay the compensation to slave owners. My ancestors weren't benefitting from slavery in the 1840s, they were trying to survive the Great Famine in Ireland, they were in the worst affected part of the country. I feel like I should get a tax rebate. Being fair gets very complicated.

As a black descendent of a Dutch colony I can honestly say I agree reparations need to be paid. Growing up in the Netherlands and now living in London I can see the disadvantages for black people in multiple countries.

But I don’t think this should be an individual country. All countries that have participated need to pay in a fund for all descendants. The amount I don’t know, but seeing we are able to fund royals, we are able to take on loans in crisis situations, the government’s should just find the money.
black people all over the world should unite to hold them accountable. Because on an individual level they will always be able to dismiss it.

In the US native Americans don’t pay taxes and get free access to schools if I am not mistaken (don’t pin me on this). They gave them land to live on. And they have a special party that represents them in government.

If we on a European level would be able to get a blackparty (black lobbyist) to step up for our rights. This would be how we can start to assure reparations for our people. And increasing our living standards.

It can be more complicated though. On one of the plantations where his ancestors lived the plantation owner had a family with one of his slaves. He freed her, she lived as his wife apparently although not legally married. Their children inherited the plantation. They then became the slave owners.

Are you seriously implying that because someone's ancestral history is mixed with the very people who enslaved them that they can't claim to have suffered and therefore can't claim reparation on that basis?

And I will not discuss your Irish ancestors struggles on this thread. Their struggles were in no way caused by black people. Start your own thread if you want to discuss that.

No I'm not implying that but if they are wealthy because they inherited a plantation and owned slaves should they still get reparations. I've got no idea what has happened to them, they might be fabulously rich now or they might not but should they also pay reparations? I don't think it is as simple as you are making out.

On the other hand I don't think you actually want to discuss anything, you just want people to agree with you so have fun.

@ancientgran I want to discuss something that I think is important to black people of slave descent with black women. I posted on this board because I don't think it's a topic that belongs in the main mumsnetters board given there may be posters who will contribute and haven't the understanding of the lived experience of black people and the impacts of slavery. Just like what has happened so far.

This is my first thread on this board, I felt it's something the black community should discuss. I'm not a slave descendant but I am black and do feel I am in a position to discuss this with other black people.

And as for you stating I just want people to agree with me, I think if you RTFT you'll find that I'm respectful of those that don't agree with the points I make. But there is only so much entitled posts a girl can take.

And as for announcing you're leaving the thread, cheery bye 👋🏽

MLK was right about the dangers of White so called "Liberals" and how obstructive to correcting racial injustices they are.

Dog-whistlers of MN.

@africanmixedkid re reparations being paid on individual basis I think that's something that could be campaigned for but in unified fashion in some respects

@africanmixedkid

I've noticed that even when a post starts with 'Dear Black People', people who aren't endearing or black jump on. It's best to just ignore them.

Then its that old philosophical question "if no one acknowledges the post, does it exist?"

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

There are still slaves NOW why not try and help them rather than receiving a few thousand pounds reparations each which changes nothing overall. Surely this is a higher priority. Slavery was abolished in 1834, nearly two hundred years ago.

If we on a European level would be able to get a blackparty (black lobbyist) to step up for our rights. This would be how we can start to assure reparations for our people. And increasing our living standards.

@NLisa I take your point that it should not be just individual countries involved but all countries that were involved in the slave trade. But as you know the fight is a long and hard one for black people when challenging injustices. My point about this involving individual countries, in particular the UK, is because it seems more accessible if you know why I mean. Baby steps I suppose.

I'd welcome your thoughts on how we could get this European black lobby group together because you're right, this really should be expanded to include all countries involved.

There are still slaves NOW why not try and help them rather than

Why must it be one or the other?

Why?

An amount that is proportionate to enable slave descendants to contribute towards building generational wealth. You know...like slave owner descendants have

Yes this would be the ideal. Albeit reservations about it being properly administered/not given to charitable or liberal organisations to run as too often they speak justice (a lot...) whilst behind the scenes hindering it.

I wonder how it came to be that descendants of slave owners were compensated. Did they ask or was it simply given? Seems to me it's something that could be highlighted as a comparison in terms of the case for reparations being paid to the descendants of enslaved Africans.

@DeeCeeCherry I had initially thought about writing to my MP who has been supportive of a family member (by marriage) who is part of the Windrush generation.

But I'm just one lone voice. It does to be collective as you say. From what I have researched there were a number of claims for reparations due to the slave trade brought against the UK government in the 00s but all were dismissed.

*need

Don't give wind-ups airtime, please. Theyre on a wind up and comments arising from their bullshit makes it so tedious when trying to scroll back to last relevant comments and keep discussion focused🤦🏿‍♀️

@africanmixedkids many individual voices amount to unity. I'd rather a very widespread campaign to inform upon reparations and encourage people to share, highlight, write to MP etc including asking for right to individual applications...

Power comes from money, the people who hold all the money hold all the power.

I understand the wanting to do baby steps. But risk with that is that when you reach for the first step and market it as the goal, they might say Oke if we reach an understanding on that matter. Let’s say individual reparations or a loan fund. That’s the end of it. But it’s not the end, reparations are just a small step to helping our people.

I would say we need black politicians funded by black money. Because when they are lobbying they are lobbying for the people that fund them.

I am just thinking out loud, but I would say: we need black businesses / people form an economical block get out people into power. So they can lobby for our interest. And maybe first on a U.K. level and then grow bigger to a European level and even global level. We need an economic powerhouse to fight for us.

I would much rather resources were put to use ending modern day slavery why is destroying lives NOW rather than compensation for an event that happened nearly 200 years ago. Everyone has equal opportunities now.