Black men protesting BLM but exclusively dating white women

[LillyFlower1984]

I’m always confused about black men or men of colour in the media and RL who shout racism/BLM and so on yet when you look at their lifestyle they are married to white women. When you go on to find out more they only ever have dated/married white women.... what are people’s take on this?

@samosamo completely agree how can men adore their mothers in such a way and then grow up to detest that very thing?

Society and stereotypes/the media are a very powerful influence sadly. Hip hop culture being a big one to blame IMO.

Look at how many hip hop or even black celebs in general have light skin girlfriends - there is a clear message that they believe success = light skin. So therefore many ordinary black men feel the same because that's the constant message they receive.

And when you are young you don't have your own mind in many cases to follow your own beliefs. It's very sad.

@samosamo I also bristled at ancientgran's post, hard to write this because it's clear she is an elder, but here goes. A lot of whataboutery here, and also, 35 years ago was 1985. I struggle believe the only people who had a problem with your interracial relationship were black women. Yet a whole post on that? In 1985 even Michelle Beale couldn't walk around Albert Square holding Kofe-eeee's hand. Would have preferred some balance. Black women are not the problem here.

I never said it was only black women who had an issue so don't make things up. If this was a thread about how white people, male or female, react to mixed relationships I might well have commented on that but it wasn't relevant to this thread.

I was pointing out that my experience was a mirror of what people were expressing about what black men were saying, maybe you don't like the fact that black women could view things the same way. I pointed out things might have changed in 35 years, young black women might feel very differently to young black women 35 years ago but the fact is that was said to me by several colleagues who happened to be black. So maybe consider that this might be or might have been something that isn't defined by sex.

I've got no idea what a fictional character could or couldn't do in 1985 has to do with me, an actual person, in a different place.

Then the world is going come in, corrupt that and make him look at me and people like me and think we are ugly?

Sometimes I wonder if we are supposed to blame ourselves. We birth em! At an individual level, yes, we probably do influence our children's attitudes/values in some way. I've mentioned on this forum before, my brother and male cousins introduced me into the world of misogynoir. I am not going to blame my mum (treated like crap by black men of her own generation- was this her fault?), or aunts (a real mixture of good/bad relationships) for their views on black women!

Women are not the only parents in this, of course. DH is from a different world, it would seem lol. He had seen/heard it from my family, but never thought it would emerge in his own. His nephew's views really upset him. DH is close to his sister and can't understand how a child can say all of that when his mother is amazing (I would agree to this too, I have learned a lot by observing her, and she one of the most hilarious people I know). I'm inclined to believe we (black women) will not find any solutions if we only blame ourselves.

In trying to relate their proximity to blackness- non black women often unwittingly (I'm being generous here) do the exact opposite and push the focus on themselves and their experiences of "blackness by proxy" or say incredibly offensive things.

Sometimes it's okay to listen to a conversation instead of try and take centre stage especially when you don't know the subject matter. It's like trying to explain how an engine works to a mechanic as a layperson because you 5hink driving a car daily gives you the innate knowledge in how an engine works. It doesn't.

@ancientgran

Yes, whataboutery. I want to be respectful to you here, as well as point out this post was for black women to discuss a matter about black men, and you, a white woman, have come on to say 'what about black women doing the same thing'. I truly think that is whataboutery, and I really don't think I made anything up by simply pointing out your omission.

ancietgran I also think the comment you posted in your deleted post no matter how "well intentioned" (I'm being generous) was offensive and disgusting

Thank you MNHQ for reinstating this thread, it's an important discussion to be had.

I'd actually prefer that the deleted comments remain, so that people can view the kind of vitriol and vilification Black women receive EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. in life. People deny it exists, or it's in our heads, which is laughable.

Personally, I don't engage with those posters who wilfully deny lived experience, or faux innocently trying to portray Black women as racist (ha!).

Genuine discussion about this topic is helpful, and also suggestions of ways they can do better.

The title was about black men and white women, I don't see why a white woman can't have a view. I don't look at the Black Mumsnetters but it was in trending now. Perhaps it would be fairer if things we aren't allowed to comment on (or read perhaps?) weren't put out there for everyone to see.

I honestly don't see why I can't say I do envy things that I see as desirable but if we can't even acknowledge that I'll leave you to it.

I second deleted posts staying up.

You referred to having a n pelvis. If your comment ended at what you found desirable - fair enough. But I struggle to think why on earth you would think that's perfectly acceptable to say even if an "African nurse" quoted these words to you. I struggle to think you couldn't find a way to not say that verbatim or better yet what benefit that comment has if any

missing asterisks but I'm sure you understand

I hope my contribution to this debate will be accepted. I'm mixed race, black and white.

I've experienced the same type of ignorance and dismiss from black men. As a child, the boys in school called me ugly then as I got older I was not seen as attractive as my white counterparts. I've been called hard headed, argumentative and stubborn as well as aggressive.

But then as I became an older teen/younger woman, their was a change in attitude towards me from black men. I was seen as exotic and "the light skinned" trophy. But I wasn't perceived as serious relationship material. More of a sexual fantasy and an achievement so to speak.

It really has skewed my perception of what a healthy relationship looks like and what is acceptable from a man, in particular black men.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the mistreatment and disregard of black women comes in many different forms towards many shades of black.

I thought black men would at least be in the corner of black women.

Do any of you discuss this with your brothers? Old school friends (male)
Do they shut you right down?
I guess it's hard to challenge any one man on his choice of partner.

Have any of you been given the cold shoulder by your family for getting involved with a white man (even though a lot of black men are "unavailable).
What advice would you give your daughters?

Thanks for this thread. It's an interesting discussion.

@LillyFlower1984

I’m really glad some people see my point that this is a deep black issue about self-hatred. It runs in black men AND women. In fact come to think of it I have come across black womenswear who also say derogatory things about black men, date white men and then cry racism. It really is not a discussion that I expect white people to fully understand but it is an issue.

No I’m not saying you cannot date outside your race, what I do say is I cannot see how you can cry BLM which is fundamentally Afrocentric in many ways and then completely ostracise your own race when it comes to a romantic partner.

Agree completely.

What is the point of conversations like this? Any disagreement to the OP is dismissed as being from a white person and no one really wants to have a real conversation. These are more like vents than conversations.

Well, I'm a black women and I completely disagree that this is a real issue. It's a social media issue but that is because angry and miserable people stay on social media. If you read mumsnet you would think every marriage is abusive. But it's not. There are plenty of black women and men happily dating and married but they aren't engaging in the social media black gender wars.

And most of the black PEOPLE who date out do so because they are integrated into mostly white communities and unless you see white people as a fundamentally different species, you are going to be sexually attracted to them. Why wouldn't you? I don't understand. If I saw a white guy and I liked him, I was supposed to deny myself because RACE LOYALTY. It's ridiculous. But unlike most other black women I'm not a hypocrite and I don't expect black men to do anything different.

But unlike most other black women I'm not a hypocrite and I don't expect black men to do anything different.

You outed yourself there!!!

So not everybody's brothers are going to try and make them feel they have done somethingvwrong dating a white guy.

I wish i knew more about this, it's fascinating but other people's obstacles dont exist for my entertainment i know.

samosamo

Outed myself as what? Honestly confused.

No one ever reacts well to being chastised and yelled at. Yelling at black men isn't going to make them more willing to date black women. It's honestly embarrassing to watch the social media meltdowns. They feel more powerful because of how desperate a lot of black women are acting.

You are clearly not a cheerleader for black women if you think you are better than most of them.

And I think that is impacting your thought process on this.

But I really can't be drawn on this, it's not worth my effort.

Fare ye well

@hereyehearye

No one ever reacts well to being chastised and yelled at. Yelling at black men isn't going to make them more willing to date black women. It's honestly embarrassing to watch the social media meltdowns. They feel more powerful because of how desperate a lot of black women are acting.

I don't see any women in this thread or on social media begging black men to date them. I see many black women repeatedly stating they there is a typical black who voluntarily offers his unsolicited criticism of black women and typically has a non black partner and makes his decision known to women who have not even expressed romantic interest in him, that they provide unsolicited misogynistic and anti-black reasons as to why they do not date black women (again completely unsolicited).

I see people saying some black men only care about BLM as far as black men go, or cannot genuinely care about BLM if they exclude black women from the conversation which they do with the anti-blackness they perpetuate. I see black women saying even when they date out of their race they still lend their voice to BLM and issues that affect black men. They do not use the reason that they have a non-black spouse excuse them from standing up for black men e.g the founders of BLM being black women despite one have a non-black partner. I hear women saying black men should reciprocate this and if they don't and participate in the anti-blackness society does as well then can they really genuinely say the care about BLM while excluding half of all black people and the issues that affect them? Is that not hypocrisy?

Nowhere have I seen black women act "desperate" for black men or beg them to date them or insist on race loyalty. So can people stop trying to turn this into a conversation it isn't. It is not an attack on interracial relationships as many posters have painstakingly mentioned before posting or a cry for black men to date black women.