The PESH Deli - The drinks might be virginal, but that's about all...

[CurlyCasper]

Come in, come in to the new haven for diffed BESHies. I think a group effort is needed here (and I'm being a lazy preggo), so please add to the deli whatever you crave/love/can stomach.

Nominations are also open for sexy fathers we can hijack to serve our mouldy cheese and cured ham

And the best mocktail recipe wins...well, bugger all to be honest

ski You need to see a doctor about that, methinks. Not good to poo dog.

So Mumsnet has this competition, right, where you can win going to a party in Londinium. See here. But am I being unreasonable to think that it's not much of a prize if you have to get yourself, your man, and your child to London, find and pay for a babysitter in a strange city, and then pretend to be excited about being offered a glass of champagne when pregnant? And then dinner at Pizza Express?

Or am I an ungrateful snob?

rots I know some of it is down to luck at the end of the day, and I have no violent objection to anything that gets my baby born safely. Part of the reason for the doula is to have someone knowledgeable there who will know what I want in an ideal world and have the skills to put that across to the MWs - plus she works at Kingston lots so knows many of them anyway.

We'll be working through the parameters of what is acceptable to me and what I'd really like to avoid if at all possible and she will be able to advise, given my age and health, what is realistic and what to do if x,y,z happens.

I'm trying not to go into this with too rigid an idea of what I want, but I firmly believe in positive mental attitude - I'm one of life's true optimists - and I'm more frightened of going in their thinking I'm going to hell in a bucket than I am about the actual birth process. As someone once said, there is nothing to fear except fear itself...

pony YANBU!!!

carrots Don't worry, I've had my arse stretched.

I feel very comfortable with the c-section thing actually. I suppose the reason for that is that in NL home births - unless for medical reasons - are really the only way it's done. Therefore if they drag your fat arse in to the hospital it's because they absolutely need to. I don't feel I'd miss out on anything if my midwife (an expert in my eyes) says it's not working and they need to open me up. I will not mourn for a lost experience.

Ponymum Nope, it's a fucking joke isn't it? If I were to nip to London for an "evening" it would set me back the best part of 700 euros. I can get a pizza from the turkish place round the corner for 5.50 mon-thurs.

cunty zactly. That's why it's not sanctimonious - you're saying you want the best possible outcome for baby AND you. It annoys me when people say, "well the baby's fine, what else do you want". A healthy baby AND a healthy mum would be good, thanks.

As you say, it's a lot down to luck but it's also a lot down to preparation - both are important and either can screw you. You can be as prepared as you like but your luck turns bad - that's ok. But having everything straightforward and not being prepared and it going wrong seems a shame. Being prepared isn't saying that it's wrong to give birth any other way - which would be a stupid and offensive thing to say - but sometimes people can interpret "I want to be prepared as well as poss" as "any other way is wrong" which is just stupid.

Anyway, now that's clear, are you going to anti-natal classes? If so, with NCT or NHS or both?

Pone you can drop the foal off at mine and I'll babbysit. Better still you could hang around and I'll make you one of mammas home made pizzas which are infinitely superior and mean none of you will have to eat anything more fo the rest of the week

cunty you does talk lots of sense - and is reason that I want to do hypnobirthing cos I really want to sort my mental attitude to childbirth out... My consultant believes in active birth and is not gonna do cs unless medically nescessary. I also think for me - as with most things for me - it's the loss of control that scares me - so I will read lots and hopefully prepare as much as i can so I can go into it in a better mental state than I am in now!

pony fuck that - pizza express is ok, but is not exactly a treat?!

ski poor you so sorry you still sickly..

ski which is how it should be, no? Getting a CS because it's required - and by memory the WHO says it's required in something like 6-10% of births to get the best overall outcome for babies and mums - which in itself seems pretty high really but just goes to remind one that childbirth used to be really dangerous! Thank goodness we have that option...

So I completely understand your POV. I just wish that we could have the same supportive system here.

cunty That's sounds like a proper prize!

iggs I looked into hypnobirthing but decided not to, but ONLY because I managed ok last time. If it was my first I def would. I think it's a fab idea.

Loss of control is what leads to problems in CB (fear, etc). But this happens because women are left alone and unsupported... this just isn't going to happen to you so you will be absolutely fine, I promise. With the support you're getting you will be in control and perfectly ok and the hypno will make it even easier.

Your consultant sounds fab!

My consultant gets mixed reviews on MN but I fink he is good.

rots loss of control is mainly what drives my fears in life anyway - hence my fear of flying... which thankfully is getting better...

Oh and ski sorry, meant to say, really sorry you're still feeling so bad

NHS I reckon. Is only up the road and is free. Not got owt against NCT, but don't really see what paying for the classes is going to bring me that's extra. Much of my birth prep is going to be done with Doula anyway so it's really an opp to meet other mums and meet the MWs, nothing else.

On the other subject, I think it has a slightly added dimension for me. Healthy mum and healthy baby of utmost importance, but I think, for me, I want to look back on it with a fond eye if at all possible. And the only way that there is a remote chance of that happening is, yes, by preparing myself as much as possible fo the birth I know I would look back on most fondly. For me personally, that is the MW led unit, in a water bath, with entonox, massage, Doula, Hom, dim lights, The Prodigy gentle music and a PMA.

If that idea turns to ratshit then it turns to ratshit, but by assuming that it's going to not be like that (i.e. believing everyone else who's ever given birth and some who haven't, and many who dismiss it as totally naive and crap) I am automatically at a disadvantage because then I am not in control, I have no plan, I am at the mercy of other people's agendae/timescales and I will look back on it and be disappointed in myself for not giving it a go - if the option was there to do it like that. Clearly if I develop complications before birth or during birth then I give myself over, no question, and I will still be happy with the outcome because there is nothing I could have done about it.

Gah, all you lot do is talk about the birth... what about the ski holiday baybee to look forward to?

We need a new fred title.

iggs best way to get over a fear of flying, IMO, is to learn to fly. I did this when my (ex!) BF dropped me off at a gliding club in the middle of the Yorkshire Dales, then drove off. I was stuck there for a week and it was either cry or learn to fly, so I learnt to fly. The first lesson I insisted on spending 2 hours with him explaining the physics of it. The rest of the day I insisted he spent teaching me to get out of a stall which was what really scared me. After that I was fine. I never got solo but after that week I did go back quite a lot for a few years and did a few power hours too, and I've always felt SO much better about flying after that as I understand just how it works and how it's safe - ie being in control - and just how hard it is to crash!

A bit extreme maybe, but it really worked.

I feel very much like you about being out of control. I find that things which scare me (flying, heights, sailing and mushrooms (don't ask)) are ok when I learn to be in control (learning to fly, abseil, sail and at some point I will get over mushrooms with a mushrooming course!).

cunty NCT tends to give lots of support for "the natural way" - but depending on the group it's supposed to be very much supporting the parental choice and also supporting the needs of those parents. So, for instance, they have loads of info for women who have to have a CS as much as those who want the lavender field option. They have a rep for being too LavF but IME it's wasn't like that, it was really open and brilliant for all, but that's possibly just the group I was in.

However, IME, although you've not asked for my opinion coz you're getting it anyway [sticks out tongue emoticon], I would say that you'll not get anything more (other than people to know) from NCT given your doula is giving you ante-natal support so sounds like the right choice to me.

Ok I'm offline. Back later.

ski do you fancy booking into a kinderhotel in Austria next Jan?

cunty I really like your approach to it. A lot of it is about the mental preparation, so you don't end up terrified when the unexpected happens. You want a birth partner or doula to say "Remember, we talked about this. Remember we said the options now are x, y, etc." i.e. constantly regaining control and focus to find that calm place in the middle of it all.

I would suggest that you don't have just one plan though, and resign yourself to "give yourself over" if it doesn't happen exactly like that. You still want control and sense of calm and information even if it takes a slightly different path, so think ahead about those different scenarios too.

I think the best thing we learned in classes was the BRAIN decision-making technique. So if you are suddently faced with "x is happening, we think you should have y." Then you pause and ask 5 questions:
B - What are the Benefits of this?
R - What are the Risks?
A - What are the Alternatives?
I - What does my Intuition say?
N - What happens if we do Nothing and just carry on?
You might still make the same decision, but at least then it's your decision.

rots have already flown a plane - but that is fine cos I am in control - with huge passenger planes you put your trust in someone else - that is my problem. I went through a phase of insiting i met the captain before we flew in passenger jets - Have sat in cockpit of a boeing 747 too - have done lots of fings. Like I said - am getting better.

I does not like skiing. but Holiday bit is good.

Perhaps a bit of sledging then iggs

gluwein? hot choc? husky sledding? gluwein?

husky sledding sounds good.. also gluwein

Like idea of winter holiday in Austria! MrP and I had a great one several years ago and he's been bugging me to go back ever since but we really haven't had a chance wot wif baby an' all.

Disclaimer: we are cross-country ski nerds now, not exciting violent downhill maniacs like in days of yoof. Please to find location which serves these archaic needs, i.e. glide gently along a pretty valley trail, stop at mountain hut jolly cafe thing and scoff kasespatzle and gluhwein until bursting, glide merrily back down pretty valley, collapse in kitsch snow-covered chalet style hotel, eat enormous dinner, repeat daily.

iggs Where we stayed had little pony sleigh rides too. I'm pretty sure it is called "schlitten fart" as of course this prompted me to buy postcards with this title emblazoned across the photo.

BUMSEX