The PESH Deli serving gin cocktails, blue cheese and softly cooked egg sarnies

[givecarrotsachance]

Welcoming all BESH PESH "grads". Full bar service. Today serving:

Softly scrambled eggs with a side order of prawns, moules mariniere, pate on toast, swordfish and tuna bake with a full cheese board of stilton and unpasturised brie.

And do you even need a changing table?

I am now pondering the full travel system V separate car seat and pram. Do I really want baby stuffed in a car seat for long walks in the countryside etc? Might go in search of pushchair thread and perhaps start one. I feel utterly lost in land what is foreign when it comes to all this malarky. Although when it comes to baby's bed, I really fancy the Amby hammock thing...

Thanks for finding another way to distract me from work

What buggy are you getting cheggs? I have the unenviable task of now needing to find a double buggy that will take a new born and a toddler at the same time, after having gone through the mental process of pram purchase before and now realising that all my previous purchases are useless if there are two.

casper/ski - Don't be tempted to spend mental amounts on gear. For the foal I bought a Quinny speedi (£220 at Argos - I learnt quickly to shop around) ans waited for Halfords to have a sale so I could get a Maxi cosi car seat and easy base for a brilliant price. Hey, ho - that was my travel system. Then had a wobble (as per casper's question) and decided I really did need the carry cot for the quinny after all, so bought one off ebay for next to nothing (people use this stuff just a few times - your baby will not know it's "second hand").

There's no need for a cot until the baby is 3 months old as they will either be "sleeping" on you or in the moses basket. We got a moses basket on freecycle (just bought a new mattress for it) but actually the carrycot is nearly the same so you could get by with either one or the other. Cot again from ebay and we bought a new mattress to go in it.

No you don't need a changing table, but because of my SPD I needed a changing surface at the right height so just used a chest of drawers with a changing mat on top.

Great advice pony thanks!
I already have a moses basket, so will probably knock the other idea on the head (only suitable up to about 1 year). Suppose I better get a stand, rather than leave the basket at dog level . Think I'll take SFF on a baby shop adventure this weekend, just to suss some of this stuff out. (i.e try the mothercare/halfords products in our cars then attempt to find them cheaper online )

Ponymum Great advice! And you are so bloody right about the agonising over the "perfect" pram when in 2 years time we'll need a double anyway - I never even thought of that! I also thought the baby would sleep on the tit as it were for the first couple of months... Chest of drawers for changing sounds ideal... or any table really I'm sure.

casper We are looking forward to the day when "Julian" can exact revenge upon the dogs and see how much they like being licked/snogged/tail pulled etc.!

ponymar am only a week into this so really not sure yet.

unfortunately the first pram we tried was the expensive one (Mountain Buggy Urban Double) which was just absolutley gorgeous to push. really smooth and easy to turn and push up for kerbs etc.

it's absolutely massive though and when folded probably won't fit in the car (or take up too much room in the hallway)

we are limited by the fact that we are trying to find one which takes 2 carseats though which is tricky. most of the doubles are geared towards one toddler and one baby so you should be ok.

we only really have 2 choices which fit 2 carseats. the Jane tandem type (might be worth a look for you if you fancy tandem) and TFK (not sure if these are available in UK) but their 2 car seat kit "may" be available in Feb but there are no guarantees

only after the carseat type as this may be the easiest way to get them down the stairs - with one in a baby bjorn type thingy.

i gather though that after 6 months when they are big enough we will just want to use a maclaren all the time so we're not even sure we wanna fork out for a big travel system, but would like to push em round in the flat carry cots while they are little (better for their backs apparently).

sorry for rambliness of post but we are still at the rambly thoughts stage of the process!!!

"first wheels" may be another to look at for you ... ??

also re: furniture, we are thinking of getting decent wardrobe and changing table (the type that have a panel at the back that can be removed so not a changing table when not needed anymore) as we figure these will last for years.

with a couple of cheapo ikea cots (79 quidish each). they have to by law use decent materials etc so can't see the point of going more expensive.

can someone explain the necessity of a moses basket though please? surely you can stick newborns in a cot which you have to buy anyway?? are they just a marketing ploy to make me spend more dollars?

as far as I'm aware you can whack them in a cot, but my mum bought me the moses basket as a gift, so might as well use it. But yeah, I'm expecting a few weeks/months of sleeping "on the tit" as ski so delicatelt put it. Though I imagine that might be a tad uncomfy with two cheggers.

The Mountain Buggy Urban came up when I read the thread about best ones for people like me - cripples with bad wrists who can't push any weight to save themselves. Does look great - but not cheap!

I'd really love a proper pram type contraption - but reckon cost, and space in both house and car will rule that out.

uncomfy on the tit? nar. not once i have fully mastered the double football hold.

and cas the mountain urban was only massive coz it was a double. might not be so big as a single?? it really does glide though

god. can't believe i am gushing about a pram. what the hell is happening to me?

Hi all,

Trip to the MW today resulted in V nice sound from the doppler - made me feel all pregnant 'n' stuff. Try laying down and relaxing yourself and fairly firmly pressing around above your pubic bone to feel your uterus - like a small, hard cricket ball. First timers may find it harder coz of better stomach muscles. cas my mum complemented me on my firm stomach muscles - with LC. Not this time .

Re prams n stuff, I got a travel system second hand off ebay for £87 for LC. It had a car seat (good condition, I was happy, figured I'd trust it hadn't been in a terrible accident (no blood on it anyway [grin)), forward facing pushchair which converted to the base for the car seat = backwards facing buggy, pram which doubled as a travel cot/moses basket and the base pushchair was a forward facing one when he was big enough. Did me just fine. I do like backwards facing pushchairs for as long as possible (at the very least 2 years) and I also feel that the flat pram systems are really important when they're tiny, although not practical for an outing - only from home - unless you have a huge car to put it in.

This also saves buying a moses basket and can be lined easier than they can. I had one for LC which we used for 2-3 weeks until he'd vommed in it so much it was ruined. They're essentially uncleanable with the wicker (properly anyway) and a good bout of reflux causes problems.

With LC I spent about £2k on stuff for his nursery - matching nursery stuff (curtains, bedding, cot, changing table, etc). T'was all for me, really, other than the cot of course, which I could have got from ebay or Freecycle or a charity shop for very little or free (or the freeads). At the time I had the money so fair play I suppose - now it's excessive, for me. But it is nice to have lots of lovely new stuff for the babe, and it's so much fun buying it! Obviously I will get most of my stuff from Makes a Change so I'm going to be ordering that soon with my Spring/Summer 2010 stock orders which is just as much fun.

One thing to note, I'm sure you all know it's VERY important to buy a new mattress to go with a second hand cot or moses basket.

One more thing about prams, the biggest tip I have, and it may be obvious, is to buy one which suits your actual needs - eg town or offroad. I used a Mei Tai from LC being about 1 year old to being 2 1/2 and that's only coz I only found out about them then. Before then I'd struggled with a Baby Bjorn type crappy rubbish expensive thing - utter shite - and it made life really tough. This time it will me Mei Tai from birth. So then the pram will be something which also goes offroad (I have LC's left over for when it's older but need a baby one). Take the car with you it's going to go into most to make sure it fits in!!!

Moses V cot, well we had a separate nursery/bedroom for LC with the cot in, and I put him to sleep there in the day. The MB was an easy way of moving a smaller bed around and having it near to our bed. It's not essential but very useful if you want them to sleep in your room to start with. You can also use them to take to people's houes for the babe to nap in.

chegg if possible borrow a baby bjorn and a baby to try it. They tend to pull forwards on your shoulders and screw up your centre of gravity, making them very tiring after a short time. A Mei Tai or similar wrap type carrier pulls the baby really close and tight into your body, meaning your C of G goes straight down and the weight is carried through your legs via your shoulders and back, with no force forwards. The only disadvantage (and the BB have this too) is it takes practise to get them in and out, and even then it's not really, really fast. A sling is faster but I didn't like how they felt but I have neck and back probs so the unlevelness wasn't great. My friend, who is teeny tiny, carried her son until he was around 3 in a sling because he would hop up and down when his legs were tired and it was much faster than a carrier - she never used a pushchair.

They're all fiddly to start with but worth the effort. If you're interested I recommend finding a local person who sells them (usually a SAHM) and try different ones.

Certainly the fabric ones, eg wraps, Mai Teis and slings have the great advantage of when they're not in use and the child is walking you don't need to push around a big chair - they can just hop up and down as they wish. And with the baby you are hands-free which is much easier when dog walking or shopping - and no kerbs to worry about.

LC was never a small child and carrying him for 1 hour or more on my back at age 2 1/2 was a breeze with a Mei Tai, and we could chat about stuff as we walked, and he was away from traffic fumes. Brillo pads, I thought - shame I missed out from younger. I would have been happy to try BF while walking with a Mai Tei.

"Certainly the fabric ones, eg wraps, Mai Teis and slings have the great advantage of when they're not in use and the child is walking you don't need to push around a big chair"

Meaning there is an intermediary period where you need to take the pushchair or carrier even though they are walking, but not strong enough to walk for as long as we can, and the fabric carrier can just be tied around your body out of the way, or put into a bag until 10 minutes later when they want carrying again!

Going to get a Concord Neo, as I believe I have wibbled on about before.

1 moses basket and one cot - the advantage of a basket is that they can sleep in the room that you are in in the early months so you don't have to keep faffing them up to the cot.

Ref preg relaxation CD - 'imagine you are walking through a beautiful green wood, the sun is shining and the warmth surrounds you baby making you feel deeply relaxed and glowing inside...' etc. Sounds shite but I felt like I was falling through the carpet, despite being sceptical. It's a form of natal hypnotherapy, which I'm hoping to employ during the many hours of agony spiritual birthing

cunty I'm all for that. I got through childbirth by "going inside myself" which I guess what a form of self hypnosis although with no prior intention or preparation. I'm thinking of having hypnobirthing lessons this time. I'm sceptical but I figure it can't do any harm.

cas You do have the right to choose, no matter what. If you're happier with a hospital birth then that's great. If you would prefer a MW unit, and feel that it's safe for you given your own research, you have the right to "insist".

Cot vs moses basket? At first (because of all the brochures etc) I thought we had to fit out a nursery with cot and baby furniture, to be ready for when the foal was born. In fact this doesn't happen until they are 6 months old. For the first 6 mths they need to sleep in your room with you.

To start with you have no choice - they desperately need to be near you after spending 9 months attached to your body and all its noises and warmth. Unless I was actually holding her/feeding her/rocking her with my hand on her chest then she really wasn't sleeping! At these times the moses basket was invaluable. I could pull it up right next to the bed and put my hand on her, or we sometimes put her in the basket on the bed between us (we have super king bed) so she felt like she was close to us. Once she became slightly more independent she slept in the cot in our bedroom, until in her own room finally at 6 months. I don't think we would have got any sleep if we'd tried to put her straight in a cot right from the start. (But other babies may be different[hopeful emoticon]).

Anyway, that's all a big long way of saying that instead of planning the furniture for the "nursery" I should have instead been thinking how I was going to fit a cot/moses basket in our bedroom as that's all I needed at the start.

pony some babies are different (meaning LC was) but many are like that, and I guess I won't be so "lucky" this time! LC was with us for 2 weeks until ex chucked him out "coz he wasn't getting any sleep" so I ended up with him in the MB in the spare room and then shortly after he went into his cot. He was fine but it was a PITA as I had to get up and get him for night feeds.

I highly recommend a bed of some kind in the parental room - whether its a cot (if there's space) or a MB, or a flat pram.

It's pink - but -

cgi.ebay.co.uk/Moses-Basket-Nappy-Stacker-Cot-Tidy-Curtains-Uplighter_W0QQitemZ2004189006 53QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUKBabyNurseryCradlesGL?hash=item2ea9e5baad

cheggs Mountain buggy is very popular. All of my friends in NZ rave about them (they go on and on). In fact one actually bought a new car when pregnant becasue "it's the only small car that can fit the mountain buggy in the boot".

I am now looking at either the Mountain buggy or the Baby jogger city elite double. (I have found these selling new for £268!!) Baby jogger also do a much lighter version (City mini) which would be worth looking at if you don't need an all terrain buggy.

The trade off between all terrain or city stroller type is: with one, it is so easy to push and feels like a breeze wherever you go, but you need a crane to get it in and out of the car (especially post c-s). With the other, light as a feather but those little plastic wheels feel every bump and stone so it's a pain to push anywhere except inside a shopping mall. Like most people, I now have one of each.

rots - Link no worky. Can you re-post?

hmmm was looking at the baby jogger city mini, but that might be no use on dog walks across grass etc from what pone says. Other was the MacLaren XLR - but didn't that one have some issues recently?

One of each pony? Really? (seeing the expense growing)

curls Yes, two. We keep the Quinny speedi at home for walks on the country paths (though it was also our travel system from the start). But we now have a tiny wee Petite star zia which we keep in the car for going into towns and other civilised places with footpaths.

I'd love some all-terrain nonsense, but Alack! I will have to take it on the bus sometimes. I curse the eyes of parents who choose the biggest, longest pram and then smack it off people's ankles whilst they try to park it in the wheelchair bay.

I'm not very tolerant by the way, but if I feel like that about other people it kind of gives me a bit of empathy...!

I'm DREADING public transport, dreading it. I would rather walk the 4 miles home than take a pram/baby/both on the bus. Already stressed about it and I'm only 16 weeks gone lol.

Went to see Doula last night. She's LOVELY and has won Hom round which is quite a feat. She's about my age and we clicked instantly. Massively sold on this idea now, can't imagine doing it without, so that is definitely where my Health in Pregnancy grant is going!!

Thank god I won't have to face the misery that is public transport! For out-and-about in town (the shops I mean) I think the sling will be ideal - I too hate prams in public. Death to all mums etc.

I'm really pleased we've got a couple of experienced women amongst us who can dish out sensible advice. Sterlising kits will need to be dissected at some point!

Yes, no public transport for us either.

Sterilising kits? Snort! And don't get me started on the forty frickin quid I wasted on the "bottle warmer". Market demographic for this product: 100% earnest first time parents who stupidly believe the store staff who tell them they need one.

well, while we're on, manual breast pump or electric? (or is it all nonsense?) I see the latest Tommy Tippee kit with steriliser etc is £80. Obviously I won't buy anything till I know breast feeding will work for us, but I really want to share those feeds with SFF eventually...

Bottle warmer = bowl/jug of warm water as farm as I'm aware... (liking pony's approach and honesty - thanks!)

we're off on a recce to Mothercare, Babies R Us etc after my massage today

casper yes, I discovered that bottle warmer = bowl of warm water, duuh.

Breast pump? I started with a simple hand held with the idea that MrP could do the night feed with the milk I had expressed during the day. Flaws with this plan:

1. Expressing is exhausting. You are literally draining the energy out of you.
2. I woke up for the night feeds anyway so didn't even win on that front.
3. I couldn't go through the night without feeding her myself or my breasts would have exploded. In the end I decided it was easier all round if I just rolled over and fed her myself!

Verdict: useful on some occasions if you don't spend too much money on it.

But if you need to express because of returning to work then don't mess around, get an electric. The best sort you can't buy in the shops. I can provide details if needed.

Now thinking of venturing out through the snow to the big city to look at double buggies.

Yes please Ponymum - I need electric sucky thing details. I'm assuming it's more sex shop than baby shop hence your reluctance to divulge?