Fab Feb Fourth Thread: are we blooming yet?

[onwardandupward]

Here we are! This should do us for a few weeks...

Can I join? DC3 due 17/02/09. Waiting for amnio result (prob tomorrow or friday) as high risk of Downs

Oh gosh ? these birth stories are quite worrying. Did you guys see the thread for the good birth stories ? very comforting ? have a look if you didn?t. I am so scared about the birth but have put it out my mind until nearer the time because otherwise I really panic. Some of the books I have been reading which have pictures of the baby crowning make me want to cry (through fear, not from being moved!)

Rosie ? grr ? how annoying for you ? can you insist?

Welcome Tumteetum ? join us - how are you feeling?

Dinky the consultant said yesterday that i should have had councelling after DD's birth but that essentially this was a new pregnancy and that i should view it as such. I did say to her that i know physically its a new and very much wanted pregnancy but mentally i cant forget or get away from the awful birth and after experience. I am not trying to side step giving birth as i have done it proudly three times its just that i really wanted to enjoy this pregnancy and feel that in view of the fact that she knew that i was terrified of being induced again ( a virtual certainty as with the last three because of the gestational diabetes ) it was pretty shitty of her to reiterate 3 times no less that i was 10 times more likely to die if i underwent an elective cs. I understand all of the cons i really do but peace of mind that my concerns were taken into consideration would have been useful.

Spent last night crying myself to sleep with worry and today bawling down the phone to DP because i feel like im in limbo as the consultant would only say - lets just see how your pregnancy goes - all well and good for her to say but she doesnt have to spend the next few months worrying herself sick about a repeat performance. My sensible side is sure that wont happen again but my subconcious is winning im afraid and im not sure what to do to get some peace of mind. I feel silly gainsaying an obstetritian as i know she said i was more likely to die because i am overweight ( 5 stone ) now have this high blood pressure and bled too much on delivery last time. I just wish i could talk to an alternative professional who whilst pointing out the risks would also reassure me on both counts (natural and cs)

Sorry to sound so needlessly worried but am honestly surprised at how vehement she was even saying that if i haemorraged which was highly likely i could lose my womb or die ( again ) shes keen on pointing out how much im going to die which i know is her job but its just served to make me even more anxious.

Calico i dont know about the 10 times more likely to die - tbh i have done a bit of research into elective and emergency cs's and was under the impression from what i have read that they are the next safest form of delivery after a straight forward vb but obviously not for me!

Rosieposie - sounds like you need another opinion, especially as it's not good for the blood pressure to be panicking for the next 6 months! I expect I'll get the wait and see how it goes line, which does leave you in limbo.

Tumteetum - hope your amnio result is good news, the waiting must be horrible.

nadsss, honestly.... at the crowning stage all you feel is relief that you're almost done... it;s the best bit of labour by a long shot

rosie, that consultant sounds delightful any chance of switching to a differant one?

Rosie - she just sounds entirely anti-caesarean under any circumstances ? maybe you should have received counselling but you didn?t and you are still distressed. Can you ask to see someone else?

Okay - I shall start thinking of crowning as the best bit!

Calico1, I have back problems from a fall when I was pregnant with my first daughter that got worse when I was pregnant with Tink. I had to have a GA because they didn't know the extent of my back problems as well as other factors. My physio said it's a good job I didn't have an epidural as it could have made things a lot worse. She said just having a CS has complicated my back problems.

Rosieposie what an awful thing to say! It doesn't matter what the statistics are, if you've not asked for them they shouldn't give you them. I'm being told I must have an elective, I don't want one and want to know statistics so that I can decide for myself to "elect" to have it done. You need to visit PALS because that's so wrong of her to talk to you like that. Shall I tell you what will happen next time you go into labour? You'll be so stressed because you're so scared that it will all happen again, you will go into fight or flight, slowing down your labour (so you can fight or flight, cause labours not very helpful to either of those) your baby will go into distress and they will rush you in for an emergency CS. There is nothing "new" about this pregnancy, in your mind it will be another chance to go wrong.

It doesn't have to be like that, you could get counselling to deal with it and learn to put the previous birth in it's place, but the chances are you won't before then.

TinkerbellesMum DC3 (3rd baby. Lily-Hope born 20 weeks 28-29/9/05, Tink born 31 weeks 17/7/06, age 27, Birmingham) Official due date 01/02/09 but expected from early December
nkweto DC2 25/01/2009
florrieandme DC2 26/01/2009
laidback DC4 27/01/2009 (age 34, North Devon)
oooggs DC4 30/01/2009 (age 34, Cornwall)
MamaGoose DC3 30/01/2009 (age 32, Spain)
MissMitford 31/01/2009
Plethora 31/01/2009 (age 37, East London but moving soon)
Ethelredtheunready (age 40, 2nd Baby, Tilly born 19/2/06, DC2 01/02/2009- Currently Chichester, soon to be Epping)
AngelDoll DC1 01/02/2009 (age 31, Sheffield)
Supersteph DC2 01/02/2009 (age 24, Torbay)
jenandbean DC2 02/02/2009
ruthmollymummy 02/02/2009
Tummytrouble 03/02/2009
Pregnantpopcornprincess DC3 04/02/2009 (pregnant with twins)(age 31, West Sussex)
MsLucy Boy 04/02/2009 (age 38, North London)
PinkTulips DC3 04/02/2009 (age 24, Roscommon, Ireland)
Davidsmom DC2 04/02/2009 (age 39, Cheshire)
MissDelighted DC1 05/02/2009
m2alyssa DC2 05/02/2009 (age 30, Isle of Man)
idontbelieveit DC2 06/02/2009 (age 31, Leeds)
Jelliebelly DC2 06/02/2009 (age 37)
Guitargirl DC2 07/02/2009
Aila DC2 07/02/2009
Littlemissnorty DC2 08/02/09 (age 39, Kent)
Biscuitytrousers 08/02/2009 (age 31, Thames Ditton)
MarkStretch DC2 09/02/2009 (age 29, Norfolk)
KT1983 09/02/2009
Tinasan DC2 09/02/2009
Herbgarden 09-11/02/09 (age 38 Berkshire)
Ewemoo 07/02/2009
Singingintherain DC3 10/02/2009
KazzaL DC2 10/02/2009 approx (age 34, Ciren, Gloucs)
littleboyblue DC2 due early-mid Feb (age 27, Surrey)
Jenniferturkington DC2 11/02/2009
thehouseofmirth DC2 11/02/09 (age 38, Wimbledon)
Clarabumps DC2 12/02/2009 (age 27, Glasgow)
BumpVLump 12/02/09 (age 29, Surrey)
Louisebunny 13-15/02/09
Mapleleaf 13/02/2009 (age 38, Cambridge)
Nadssss 13/2/9 (age 29, living w. london)
Jelliebaby DC2 14/02/2009 (AGE 29, Cheshire)
Loopylula DC2 14/02/2009 (age 28, Sussex)
Francesrivis 15/02/2009 (age 38, Devon)
onwardandupward DC2 second week of Feb (age 35, south west)
Americas 16/02/2009 (age 32, London)
shubiedoo DC3 17/02/2009 (age 37, Canada)
Neeerly3 DC3 17/02/09 (age 31, Mansfield)
NervousMouse DC2 17/02/2009 (age 36, Berks)
Pluto DC2 18/02/09 (age 38, Kent)
Fruitstick DC2 19/02/2009 (age 32, London)
Imaginewittynamehere DC2 19/02/2009 (age 32, Cambs)
McDreamy DC3 19/02/2009 (age 37, Cyprus but will give birth in Bucks)
WarmFuzzy 19/02/08 (age 40, south London)
Dinkystinky 19/2/09 (age 31, London)
Rachrox DC3 20/02/2009 (age 28, Glos also!)
Calico1 DC2 21/02/2009 (age 40, West Herts)
Mentalpup DC2 21/02/09 (age 30, Glos)
Rosieposey DC4 21/02/09 (age 36, Wilts)
Winemakesmummyclever 23/0/09 (age 34, Lancs)
LardyBump 24/02/09
Chilledmama DC2 25/02/2009 (age 31, Hampshire
Nellstar TBC
zikel DC2 TBC (23, Coventry)
Cocodrillo DC3 26/02/2009 (age 34, south london)
MrsBick DC2 26/02/2009 (Age 25, living in Surrey)
charlie7 DC2 28/02/2009 (Age 33, living in the Inner Hebrides)
dd1ofcolandgerry DC2 25/02/2009
theSuburbanDryad DC2 (age 26, living in South Bucks)
Babyignoramus DC1 27/02/2009 (age 27, Brighton)
Gina80 DC2 28/02/2009 (age 28)
Blinamouse
Elkiedee

I dont think that she was anti cs nadssss i just think that maybe i got her back up or something by writing 2 a4 sides about my birth experience and that i really really had considered the options and i still wanted to be considered for a cs this time. She even said that if i was induced again and it took three pessaries and nothing then of course id get a cs and i felt like screaming at her no no no - thats what i dont want - no more inductions and i told her that anyway i said i would refuse one if i was asked again - dont think that went down very well tbh but i was in a bit of a state by then. DP said maybe we could pay to see another consultant and get another opinion for peace of mind - it wont change the mind of the one ive got but it might help me to feel less worried.

Good luck with your amnio results tumteetum too

Pink , dunno if i can switch consultants - i dont want to for fear of being seen as an awkward patient - i only wrote about my last experience because the midwife told me to at my booking in appt but im not sure its done me much good - perhaps if id had a little nervous breakdown in front the consultant it would have been better but im crap at crying in front of strangers and wasnt about to employ it as a tactic to get what i wanted.

(((Rosie)))

Nadsssss please don't be off put by the birth stories. Just think of all the women who aren't posting horror stories... I think those of us who had long tiring labours first time around are doing a bit of processing, you know? But also, I wish women who had had long posterior labours had told me about it in advance a bit, because I was really thrown by it all being in my back not across my bump, and by it taking so long etc etc. The different experiences of birthing differently positioned babies didn't even come up in ante-natal classes as a possibility which, with hindsight, is just weird. Especially since one of my friends from the class had a C section because her baby was in the weirdest most rare position imaginable (sideways on, head sticking out under one sideof her rib cage, feet straining at the other. THat baby was never coming out vaginally, since no part of it was engaged with her cervix in any way - and that's about as rare as you get with positioning. I think it might have helped her to know in advance that, rare as it is, that might happen and the whole natural water homebirth thing might just not be a runner and completely out of her control.

And as for crowning - really really, the "ring of fire" is true but it really doesn't hurt as in "oww oww oww stop that". You just feel the baby's head sliding out and there's a tight bit near the end, that's all, but as the baby's head is crowning, you have such euphoria - I mean, you're about to meet this baby you've been growing for 9 months and birthing for hours, and how blardy cool is that? Oh, and your body also goes bananas releasing pleasure hormones at this point and as soon as you put the new born to your breast (worth doing for the oxytocin hit even if you aren't planning to breastfeed), so you're not really in a space to be feeling pain at that point. Just joy and love and tenderness and knackeration. IMO.

Oh nadssss i had great birth experiences with my first two - and the only reason i am asking for a cs with this one is because of bad management on behalf of the hospital that i gave birth at.

Bad births are a rarity and there is a plethora of great and positive birth stories of which some i know you have read. Pink and Onward are right about the ring of fire - its a positive pain difficult to explain but it means your lo is nearly out

Nadsssss I highly recommend The Water Birth Book (even if you don't plan on one) as it explains the processes really well and you should find it helpful to use their tactics and thinking about the things it says. What I described to Rosie is the opposite of a good labour!

I really believe if more women read it they would have a lot better birth!

As for pain, I apologised for all the noise I made afterwards(???) and TBD said "you sounded like you'd stubbed your toe"! I'd actually not complained as much as I thought and everyone said I'd actually done really well. I'm a wuss, honestly! Mum always said "wait till you have a baby!" when I was younger!

exactly onward... the more birth stories bad and good i hear the more prepared i feel for my own births.

beofre dd i didn't have access to the internet, i only had a few magazines i'd read and alot of things happened that i hadn't expected or wanted. i wasn't prepared to fight for the birth i wanted as i naively assumed things would go smoothly and i'd be able to speak up for what i wanted.

and i'd never even heard of vitimin k! i refused it thank god on the grounds that i didn't know what it was and didn't like the sound of it and having since researched it thoroughly i'm so relieved i did. if i hadn't been prepared to fight my ground on that one second time round though i'd have been massacred by the paediatrician who tried to bully me into it and tried convincing dp that i was harming our baby (bless him and his 'she's the one who had the baby and has done all the research and i trust her' )

it is so much better when your prepared for the experiance and that includes knowing what things could go wrong as well as having your ideal birth planned.

Rosie Posie , what an awful thing for the consultant to say to you - yes,tell you the risks but they don't have to be quite so harsh about it- maybe she thinks that unless she's firm you won't believe her?! Horrible too to then be in limbo and as you say spend the next few months worrying about the end result.

I know there's a consultant at the hospital I go to (I am under consultant care this time due to emergency c-section last time) and I hope I don't get her this time - I go in a few weeks. I had to be induced last time before the emergency -c was the last resort and I wanted to have an epidural. The anaesthetist was delayed due to several emergencies (I had to wait 12 hours in the end) and this horrible consultant who was on duty came in at about hour 6 and said to me "let's just get going and the anaesthetist will come when he can". When I said that that was not my preferred option she piped up "it's childbirth, it's supposed to be painful". DH gave her a short sharp shrift and I promptly burst into tears - this was 48hours after my waters broke so I was getting a bit emotional by then. They really don't think sometimes do they and seem to take the human element out of it all and don't always have a great "bedside" manner so to speak. Are you able to get a second opinion to at least put your mind at rest? I suppose the midwives don't want to get involved as they do distance themselves from the consultant side of things I've found.

Hi to all the newbies and good luck with the amnio tumteetum...fingers crossed for a good result - not nice having to wait.

Herbgarden i want a second opinion but i think i can only get one if its paid for - im not even sure how to go about it really and its only to put my mind at rest but the problem is that one consultants opinion might not be anothers so even if i did see one on a one off private basis it wont have any bearing on the end result with the consultant that im under IYSWIM

Something I noticed when I was in hospital for a long time with Tink (this is very generalised and there are exceptions):

Midwives tend to be quite sympathetic, although they can be a little harsh and they know women know their body better than anyone because they see it all day.

Female, childless obstetricians tend to be quite sharp and know-it-all because they're women and obstetricians.

Female obstetricians with children tend to be a lot more sympathetic because they've been there and found there is some things you can't learn on a course.

Male obstetricians know they don't know enough about women's bodies and there is a certain element they will never know! They tend to be sympathetic and listen a lot better to what the mother says and take her feelings into it.

I don't think I've ever had a bad thing to say about a man, some of the women I've met could be cheerfully slapped!

rosie, go to your GP, explain what happened and ask them if they can refer you to someone else for a second opinion. I had to do it when my doctor refused to give me Heparin, I was moved onto a more appropriate team and got the treatment I needed. Your GP has the power to do that and they will cover any costs.

How many obstetricians are on your team? Can you ask for another appointment with another member?

Hmm thats funny you should say that tink because i have never in all of my pregnancies had a female obstetrician before and thought that she might be a little more sympathetic to what had happened, dont get me wrong she was there shaking her head in disbelief at what had happened with DD3 but was adamant that this was a new pregnancy and hospital therefore all would be well. What makes me laugh is that they arent even there for the birth (and thats where it all went wrong) so how can she legislate that it wont happen again. Im not even saying that it will happen again i just know that there are no guarantees with pregancy and birth i would have just liked the option thats all and whilst i couldnt really tell if she was saying yes or no she did such a good job of frightening the daylights out of me (no less than three times) that im in a quandry about either method now - i just know that i dont want to be induced again and thats always been my only option towards the end of my pregnancy. I wouldnt mind ordinairly but as im sure you can tell just cant get passed what happened with DD3 and the subsequent after effects it left with me even now 11 years later.

Thanks for that advice though Tink i wouldnt have thought about going to my GP because i figured that they would be more likely to go along with the experts so to speak but i will make an appointment and go and explain everything.

hi there
thought i'd say hello!
Pregnant with my second DC and due on 14th Feb which is my DD's 2nd birthday!!
Not sure if thats good or bad timing!! but fed up of ppl asking how my DH managed that!!? funnily enough I was there too! lol

Hope all you ladies are well and don't mind me joining you!

take care xxx

ooh just saw theres another dinky! sorry no copying intended! its my dd's nickname!

I was fortunate that most GPs don't understand my condition and will happily let me tell them what to do - I even went to my sister's GP and told them to refer her to a specific doctor. But GP's work for you, so use them. They employ the hospital doctor to look after you and if you're not happy, as the employer they have to deal with it.

I bet your doctor doesn't have children.

You need to talk to someone who is going to be sympathetic and help you through both choices. Is there a PALS you can go to?

Also, you don't have to be induced, my sister was born naturally at 44 weeks and was still only 8lb something. Babies are like cooking, some take longer and some take less time. Doctors get too hung up on dates and they need to learn to relax a little. If baby is happy and the placenta is still working, then they shouldn't be trying to rush baby out. Tink was 31 weeks, 4lb 2oz (which is huge) and was breathing alone from the start. She was out of the unit in 17 days and home 7 days later. She was ready to be born early.

Tink they have to induce me (they say) because with gestational diabetes your baby is in danger of getting too big too early and even at 36 weeks + 6 days dd3 was 8 and a half pounds. It wasnt really about my babies cooking it was about poorly controlled diabetes making my babies bodies too big for their little internal organs to cope with hence an iduction before the glucose in my blood made them any bigger. To be honest i am going to go and see the GP and explain what happened and just reiterate that i dont wish to be induced again - thats all i can say really - the rest is up to them

Welcome dinkymum!

Ah, I don't know much about GD I'm afraid. Still there's no "have to" about anything.

Mum told me a sad story of one of her parents, they tried to get away from SS by refusing a section (I don't know why it was needed) the doctors warned them it would seriously harm the baby if they tried to deliver naturally. The baby was severely brain damaged and there was nothing that the doctors could do about it because it's the mothers decision.

Ooooh you chatty lot- look what happens when I do a whole days work!

Welcome to all the new people and rosie your consultant sounds like a twat.

Got another day at work today out of the house - boo!

See you all later.

Thanks for your kind words about positive birth!

Tink ? my mum said exactly the same! I definitely want a water birth but they seem to be saying that you can only have a waterbirth if everything is normal and that, in first babies, everything is seldom normal. I am going to buy that book now.

Ahhhh I don?t know what Vitamin K is! I have just looked it up and seen the possible link to cancer ? is this why it is controversial?

DinkyM ? welcome ? that?s my due date too!