Fab Feb Fourth Thread: are we blooming yet?

[onwardandupward]

Here we are! This should do us for a few weeks...

that's what jumpers are for in this house

Breastfed babies don't usually grow as fast as formula babies and HCPs tend to forget that. You would have been best to have just carried on, even early weaning wouldn't have helped because there's less calories in solids than in milk - either milk.

I've been saying a lot that this baby won't be having formula (other than if it ends up in the Unit) and I won't be allowing anyone to bully me. I'm going to go to the breastfeeding group straight away so I can tell HV that everything is fine.

mrsy, you need to decide how important breastfeeding is to you. If it's the most important thing in the world, don't even think about it during the first six weeks. If it's important then you need to decide whether it's more important that you are able to breastfeed or that someone else might possibly maybe get something out of it because it can not only spell the end of your breastfeeding relationship but also stop your production of milk enough that you won't even get enough out of pumping and have to start on formula. I'd only think about pumping if you feel you can take it or leave it because you are playing Russian Roulette as soon as you give a baby something other than your nipple. TBH I set milestones first time round, but after I got her home I had no intentions of stopping. I don't think I could have made a decision in pregnancy, a lot of my plans went out the window when we got home!

I'm not, and I'm sure I can speak for the others, trying to pressurise you into not doing it. We've already been there and for some of us have the education to know how pumping works. Too many books and magazines undermine the value of breastfeeding or try to make it sound "easier" by saying (for example) that letting dad do a feed a day is a good thing and not going to affect supply, but they're not telling the full story. It's harder work and can have a massive impact.

McDreamy- my headaches are AWFUL. You have my sympathies.

Tinkerbellesmum - sorry i didn't follow that post about how important it is for me, but just to clarify, i always try to be as natural and holistic as possible. My mil is an alternative therapist, and i use her services alot! i'm planning on breastfeeding as long as i can, i'm going to use cloth nappies, i'd like to try co-sleeping and will follow the babies routine rather than dictating mhy own, i'd like to have a natural, drug-free home water birth - very much the earth mother approach!

however, i feel that, there will come a time when i need to leave the baby with my husband, or my mother or my in laws. i don't want to use formula, so the alternative to only being away from the baby for about 3 hours is to try expressing. as i said before, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, but i don't see the harm in trying, at a suitable stage, when my milk production has stabilised, and i'm confident i have a good routine feeding the baby.

but hey, i have another five months to go, and may well change my mind again. which, tbh, is highly likely!!!!

p.s. i don't want people to think i'm being deffensive, i just wanted to explain my thought processes, etc.

My god you lot talk and talk and talk.

MarkS - sorry to come back to your nipples...but are you sure you were not just aroused by Mr Time Traveller ? A couple of elastoplasts should do the trick next time ?

I am definitely looking pregnant now . There is a woman at work who is just about to commence maternity leave (she must be about 36 weeks) and I feel not far off her in size. God knows how big I'm going to get.

I got some jeans from Crave amternity - boyfriend style - reduced to £35. Quite a good fit, but under bump so you need to wear a belt to really to stop slippage.

I'm getting worried about names too. I literally cannot find a boys name I like...my other 3 have fairly unusual names, so I daren't start a names thread to canvas for suggestions !

mrsy.... you might be surprised.

i didn't want to leave dd with anyone for even 5 mins until she was weeeelllll beyond the point of feeding more than a few times a day

i could have and had offers but even dp taking her for a walk left me slightly traumatised

I DO NOT FANCY THE TIME TRAVELLER HE SCARES ME WITH HIS MYSTERIOUS TALES

Here's me in the playground

MarkStretch I have nipples with a mind of there own at the moment as well. I nearly took an old mans eye out today. DP said that until I get another bra he is not going out with me...... !!

Sorry, I kept deleting bits that didn't make sense to me so think it became disjointed.

I was saying that you need to weigh up how important breastfeeding is to you. Can you afford to pay Russian Roulette. Some babies are converted after one bottle, some do it slowly but when you look into how long the nursing relationship continues it's always cut short by adding a bottle. If you are thinking that eventually there will come a day when you need to leave your baby, then there are other ways to do it (I've never used bottles) and you don't have to break your LO in.

I'm not trying to tell you what to do or change your mind about anything, just trying to be more honest than you will get in a book. It sounds like you have thought a lot about what you want to do.

wish my nipples would get all erect and perky

lefty has never managed it.... ended up shoving a chunk of metal through it to disguise the fact that it doesn't know how

had to take it out when preg with dd though only anopther 3 years and i can get it done again.

tink has a very valid point mrsy, bf-ing has varying importance to differnat people and that's fine.

some people don't mind when bf-ing draws to an end at 2 weeks, 2 months, 6 months etc..... some women would be and are completely devestated and feel like failures even if they'd done their best to keep it going. have a glance at some bf-ing vs ff-ing threads and you'll see so many women who were totally heartbroken about having to stop feeding sooner than they wanted and have alot of issues resulting from it. and what most of them feel most wretched about is that they feel if they'd been properly educated and told all the facts they could have continued for longer.

switching to formula isn't the end of the world, but for some women it can feel like it if they were sure when pregnant that they'd get to 6 months/1 year/2 years without a hitch because they'd read all the books and had a 'plan'.

if you wouldn't mind ff-ing then by all means use the pump and let others feed, at the end of the day most of us were ff and we're all alive and well, but if ff-ing would upset you (and by the sounds of it you are pretty set on bf-ing) then please think very very carefully about pumping.

it hurts, it reduces supply, you can't get as much in 2 hours as baby can get in 15 mins, it can cause nipple confusion and at the end of the day, there are lots of things others can do for you that will give you more of a break than spending hours pumping and the next few hours engorged.

(also keep in mind, if you've left baby with well meaning mils or mothers and they run out before you get home and baby is hungry.... 90% will give formula to keep baby happy. whether they tell you they did or not.... as far as they're concerned they have a hungry baby on their hands, you're not there and what you know won't hurt you.. and after all they fed their kids formula and they're all fine)

PT, my sister's breastfed two used to come back from her mil's doing very different-to-their-usual-looking poos!

they wouldn't be the only ones i'd say!

i had to threaten my dad with never seeing his grandkids again to make him promise to make sure my mom didn't do the same, and i had to pump 3 full bottles for a trip out that only lasted 3 hours.... and mother dear had gone through all of them shoving a bottle down her throat even when she wasn't hungry and therefore wasting lots as dd would drink it and then puke it up and keep screaming

she was 8 weeks old then and she was 18 months the next time i left her with anyone other than dp, and that was to go to hospital to have ds

PT you've done a lot better job in one post than I did in several! You summed me up well.

LOL swampster I can imagine that! There is a thread on the feeding forum at the moment and the mother is supplementing and one of the reasons she keeps going is when she doesn't give it the poohs change - I walked away! I didn't want to get into a big pooh debate!

new thread name?

Fab Feb 2009 fifth thread: posting queens

OK, it's rubbish but we've only got 30 posts to get the new thread going...

Have been reading the posts about expressing - very interesting.

I had a few friends who expressed very successfully with their little ones and it meant they could continue to have breastmilk even though mum went back to work when baby was 4 months.

Personally though I couldn't get on with it at all. DD was born jaundiced and with some unspecified infection. She was very sleepy and wouldn't latch on at all. I spent hours and hours in the hospital trying to latch her on with very limited success, she had a tiny bit of colostrum which I managed to express into a syringe. The midwives (even the very pro bf ones) told me that she would become dehydrated and very ill indeed if she didn't get some fluid so we formula fed in a cup whilst perservering with trying to latch her on. By the third night I was so engorged they told me that they would not let me home like that, they gave me antibiotics as they thought I would get mastitis and night shift MW told me I would have to express. So, at 2am I was sat in the hospital's 'nursery' tied up to their industrial strength pumping machine feeling very bizarre. It was very effective at getting milk out, managed 1.5 bottles through gritted teeth but couldn't do any more, was VERY painful and cracked both nipples. There was blood in both bottles and the duty MW proceeded to throw both away as she said the blood would make DD sick . I was mortified, all that for nothing! And as the pump was so strong it basically just stimulated more supply so I ended up even more uncomfortable!

We were released from hospital the next day, still topping up with formula and by the following morning I was at my wits end, boobs felt like boulders, SO uncomfortable. DP was sent to Boots as soon as they opened for a hand held pump and I paced the floor till he got home but it was next to useless. Couldn't get a drop out. I was going mad. Then, luckily, that afternoon, the visiting MW came out, a wonderful woman who made me feel so much more relaxed and spent some time with us helping DD latch and finally she fed properly! The relief was amazing (both physical and emotional), she fed for about 3 hours that night! We continued with the formula top ups for another couple of days, on MW advice, as I was worried about her jaundice and then around day 5 we stopped completely with the formula and DD went on to be just breastfed till 6 months and I continued feeding till she was 19 months. Never did manage to express though, tried a couple of times but no good.

Wow, that was long and didn't mean to put anyone off who is planning on expressing, like I said friends of mine found it a blessing, especially those who went back to work early.

How about "Fab Feb 2009 Fifth Thread - Totally Bumptastic" for new thread name?

Loved the tale of Markstretch's perky nipples - maybe the Time Traveller has picked up a device from the future to make women's nipples perk up around him??

DS was BF until 8 months when he stopped being interested in boob and soon after I went back to work and he was fine with a bottle. I had a e-section and had no support at the hospital to get BF started and can remember how helpless and anxious I felt. On the second day I was told to express too and for us that worked wonders in getting the milk running (BS fed from a cup though). However, it took us a few days back home before DS first latched on properly and I'm convinced that this was due to MWs attempts on forcing him on my boob in the hospital. I would recommend speaking to one of the BF support groups before giving birth and organising them to give you some hands-on advise right after the birth in case you will experience any trouble. BTW, they also do rent out pumps to get you started if you feel like you need one, the one we bought from Mothercare was absolutely useless. Either way, don't feel guilty whatever you decide to do.

guitargirl, that's awful. well done you for sticking with it.

i'm eternally relieved that i discharged myself from hospital bfore dd's jaundice set in and the PHN (equivelant to HV) who visited me was a star and so supportive and really gave us the help we needed to get through it and was very reassuring. dd was so dozy with the jaundice i couldn't wake her to feed for 14 hours the day my milk came in (ouch), i dread to think what would have been done if we were still in hospital.

as for throwing your milk away because of the blood... how bizarre! all of us with cracked nipples are vampire feeding our babies, it doesn't do them a bit of harm. if they swallow too much it comes back up again but other than that it doesn't affect them that i know of. i think there were feeds dd got as much blood as milk in those early weeks

i also know a couple of people for whom expressing was the only way they could feed.... one had a son who was given a bottle in hospital (have no idea why, i'm sure she told me but i've forgotton now) and refused the breast ever after... she expressed for 10 months exclusively without giving formula before giving in to exhaustion, amazing woman! another woman i know had 2 kids who refused to drink from the source for various reasons and she managed to express some of their milk for a few months but had to supplement as she couldn't pump enough and it was agonising for her, also amazing to have done it for so long.

I agree that relying on midwives to get you started with breastfeeding, if that's what you chose to do, isnt always the best option as they're so busy on the post-natal wards they cant always spend the time you need to get you established.

I went to the local breastfeeding group from around 38 weeks pregnant and through them got in touch with a local peer supporter who was wonderful. She came up to hospital on the day DS was born and spent 3 hours with me working on helping with latching on and different positions and taught me how to breastfeed lying down. She visited me for the next 3 days to ensure I was comfortable and was always available on the phone and I will be forever thankful to her.

Fab Feb 2009 Fifth Thread - Faffing about in the Facebook?

Oy, everyone, over here!

have applied for the facebook group but no-ones accepted me yet

or maybe ye have and i just can't figure it out.... FB is weirdly lai out, hard to find stuff isn't it?

I must be one of the few people not to be on Facebook

Maybe the new thread should be "Fab Feb 2009 fifth thread: dinkystinky talks to her self"