Due Jue 2005, Thread 5

[LipstickMum]

Katz, thanks for your email. I have replied but also said I would post on here my suggestion for luch tomorrow. Basically all I suggested was that at lunch we give our doatios to someone, and they send off 1 cheque to Katz, makes it a bit simpler. I'm happy to send a cheque.

Teabelly - Good idea! I'll ask and see what they say. I'm not a season ticket holder but am sure that won't matter.

Uwila - After 2 months are you going to go straight back to work, 4/5 days a week? Could you ease yourself back in gently somehow? Remember, you'll have 2 LOs then, not just the one, so it could be harder than before? Obviously, I don't know as I've never done it, so ignore me if you disagree. I am planning to be in work after 2 months, but not for financial reasons - just because I am a control freak and also a bit nutty. However, I think I will just pop in from time to time and really annoy everyone, plus we will have the home-working set up by then so that will make things easier. Couldn't you do home-working if the nanny is there to help look after the children? Perhaps that would be some kind of compromise?

Charley / Lippy - I looked at the ebay link for the Earl jeans. Personally I don't like them, but I spose it depends how much the reserve is. Try Business Bump for some cool Under the Bump jeans. They do overbump too but they don't have the pockets and button fly. I can't do links but this is the website
www.businessbump.co.uk/BusinessBumpSite/product/UNDERJEANS.htm
They are expensive but I honestly live in mine!

Scraggy, thanks for the businessbump tip. I have them on favourites, but not bought anything yet. There is an Earl jean shop near me, so I might be able to try some on before I bought online. HOwever, I've never bought on ebay and it scares me rigid , especially from overseas It's worth paying a bit extra for something you're going to wear practically every day for the next 5 months I think!

This whole 'going back to work' issue is really interesting. I think I probably would have gone back to work after dd, definitely part-time though. It was only because of my situation at the time (just returned from to UK from NZ so I wasn't employed when I fell pregnant) that I didn't. ALthough I did work while I was pregnant. I felt quite strongly about going back to work, dp wanted me to stay at home. Then, when I didn't have a job to go back to anyway, I decided to try full-time motherhood. I do love it. Although I do wrangle a lot with my conscience and 'what other people think' about what they consider to be my easy life, lunching and play dates etc. I do absolutely everything in the home, childcare, chores, bills, housekeeping etc. because I consider it to be my responsibility and my job.

What I am realising, which, naively I hadn't given much thought to before, is how lucky I am to be able to stay at home in the first place. A p-t teachers salary probably wouldn't leave much after childcare anyway! We manage with just dp's salary and seem to have all the things we want/need... so far! My financial contribution will only make a difference when the children are at school and we don't need to pay for full-time childcare.

Sometimes I am so jealous of women who have life outside the home, sometimes I'm not, mainly when I get to spend loads of time on MN

It also leaves me loads of time to pursue my hobbies. I have French lessons once a week and now I must slink off and do my homework!!

Scraggy -- so glad I'm not the only one. I get very fed up with guys who look at me disapprovingly about my speedy return to work. The worst one are those say something like "My wife said that, too. Then she had the baby, and never went back at all." As if to say my pretty little head doesn't really know what I'm going to do. But ehy, as a man, are more qualified to tell me how it's gonna be. Onlookers have reported smoke pouring from my ears and flames coming out of my nose during these conversations.

Anyway, off my rant and back to the topic...

My plan is this:
6 weeks mat leave @ 90% of my pay
2 weeks holiday @ full pay
4 weeks of part time (30 hours a week, rather than 40) for 75% of pay
Return to work full time, but work the hours in 4 days rather than 5

So, it's 8 weeks off work completely, 4 weeks of 3 days a week, then back full time (but Fridays off).

Oh, forgot to mention (Jeez, I can ramble on on this subject for longer than you think), there are non-financial drivers for this quick return (or am I just justifying the reality??). Seems everytime I get pregnant, I just happen to have some minor career setback. Last time I was supposed to go salary, then when I told my boss I was pregnant he told me the staff opening was delayed. And that meant NO maternity leave for me. So, anyone who thinks two months is short really would be horrified to know what I did last time. Anyway, this time, I was suppose to go be the lead Information Manager on a project. Just after announcing my 'condition' the project suddenly grew and someone else with slightly different experienc got the job. Coincidence? I doubt it. So I'm getting a bit fed up with having to settle for my career suffering when I get pregnant. It pisses me off to no end. Equal in the work place, my arse. That will only happen when men can have babies. Although, it would probably help an awful lot if they got paternity leave equal to our maternity leave.

Also, another reason is that Heidi (our nanny) is not likely to go away for 4 months unpaid and then come back and work for us when I need her. I have learned the hard way that crap nannies are an incredible amount of work and frustration. Also, with a young baby, I want someone I already know and trust. So, the choice really comes down to staying home for an extra month and losing Heidi and having to replace her or going back and hopefully keeping her (I haven't talked to her yet about my plans for maternity leave so I am somewhat guessing her reaction to my proposals).

In the end the decision is made. It is what I outlined above. I'm just unhappy about it and ranting away on my beloved Mumsnet thread. Sorry for anyone who isn't in the mood to readloads of really long posts today.

I suppose I should actually do some work today...

Morning ladies - Pink, congratulations on little Master Pink, we do seem to be having a lot of boys don't we? I'm waiting til after my scan to add my details to our stats thread, I hope that is correct.

JonahB - glad I shall not be the only negligent mother abandoning her dp/h with the baby at home Ours is a decision based on the fact that dh isn't well enough to work, and the stress of it is likely to make him worse. Quite how this compares to the stress of looking after a baby remains to be seen, I must say. He is confident he can do it, I am just hoping like heck he can since I dunno what our other options are.

I'm taking 6 months off (not that I am working now!) after the baby so we'll have 6 months of us both being at home, which will be nice I think. Particularly as I think one of the major problems my sister-in-law had with breastfeeding was the fact she couldn't be doing anything else whilst pinned down by the hungry bub. I shall be directing operations from the sofa

We can afford it, although it's less than ideal that we had so much time off last year trying to get dh's health sorted out but there we go. I'm hoping to get some work before the baby comes to supplement savings - just waiting to hear back about a contract in Amsterdam.

Uwila - I hope that we'll get to a system like Sweden's, where the parents have a joint allocation of leave they can take, and typically they will split it between them, six months for the mum and six months for the dad. The one advantage I can see for us in going back to Sweden after the baby is the child-friendly approach to work. Whereas here I think people (particularly women?) feel judged if they say "I can't have that meeting after 3:30 because I need to leave at 4 for the kindergarten" in Sweden that is completely normal and accepted. If the mum is at home with a baby the dad will pick up the other one(s) from kindergarten on his way home, that's just how it is.

Are you or dp or both Swedish then Trib?? You must be very frustrated with our work/childcare family attitudes if you are!

Lippy as one who does half and half as it were I definitely wouldn't worry about what others say about you being a SAHM - everyone has to do what's best for them financially and for their sanity!! I can honestly say that I do more at home than I do at work - in fact work is a rest for me!! So far today we've cleaned the whole house (just the floors to do - but have to wait for dh to be here as ds is very scared of the hoover bless) and am now off to made Noddy cakes, probably followed by some painting/drawing and then it'll be lunch and if I'm lucky he may go to sleep after - not - oh and I'm just about to start my 3rd cup of tea...if I was at work by now I'd be on at least my 6th cuppa (at least!) and be joking with the boys about how sht Man U were last night (oh and would have probably done some work too...if I could drag myself away from MN). Actually work can be quite demanding most of the time, but I don't think it compares in the same way to a moaning, winging child that can't understand why you can't just play with them instead of doing chores around the house, and has just wet their clothes for the third time that morning because they forgot to say they needed the toilet in time... ok that's me off my soapbox - noddy cakes beckon.....oh sht make that 4 pairs of trousers

lol!! Am off to French class a tout a l'heure!

Morning all,
I feel so deprived - 2 days without managing to post - computer at home has decided it doesn't like this thread (?!) I really missed chatting with you all - even more since we met up.
First things first congrats Pink on your little boy and a thought about your back. I had to go to an osteopath for mine about 3 weeks ago and it's loads better now. Every night I do about 15 mins of preggy yoga infront of the telly - really easy stuff from an Miriam Stoppard book. I'll happily photocopy the pages and send them to you if you think it might be useful. It really helped me with dd and now is doing the same with this pg.
Jeans - I'm still comfortably wearing a pair of ordinary Next ones in a size bigger than normal - they're pretty low slung and cost 23 quid - I think they'll last another month - then I'm off to Topshop to try theirs on.
SAHM - I definitely agree with TB (that's Teabelly not Tony Blair) that staying at home with dd is one hell of a lot harder than going to work. Going to work is far easier but I now don't get the same sense of achievement from it as a day spent productively with dd.
Tell you what's really hard working almost full-time when your 'darling husband' has gone to NY for a week. That is bloody hard work. He's away until Monday night and I'm already knackered out.

Lippy - no, we're not Swedish, I'm from Derbyshire and dh is a Tractor Boy (I think that means someone from Suffolk as well as someone who supports Ipswich? Not that he does really). However, dh lived in Sweden for 7 years and I was there for about 18 months, previously worked in Holland which is also quite progressive in its approach to childcare. I haven't actually worked in the UK for about 4 years, this may not bode very well when I return to work and expect to be able to leave at 4 on the dot every day to go home to my baby I suspect!

However, all your comments about staying at home (or 'working in the home' as would be a much more accurate term) being more stressful and tiring than going out to work certainly coincides with my own view on the matter - I have to let dh give it a go and I'm sure that if he were well he would be fine doing it. Just got to hope for the best.

I wouldn't say staying at home was the 'easy' option either - I have the upmost admiration for those who do it because I don't think I could. One of the reasons I went back to work because I wanted to do something I knew I was 'good' at. I didn't think I was doing a particularly good job looking after DS, and I hated the fact that I didn't know what I was doing most of the time.

If I'm honest I'm not sure what I'll do when number 2 comes along. Financially we could probably survive without my salary so staying at home would be an option (two kids at nursery is going be take up most of my earnings anyway) but I genuinely don't know if I'd cope. Sigh. It's very difficult.

Teabelly, Welshmum, and everyone else on number 2 and working, are you going back to work after maternity leave?

Btw, I've just been talking to dh about the concept of 'work' v. 'staying at home'. What we do now is 'staying at home' - the most I will have to do today is bring the bins back in after the dustbin men have been round and think about a trip to Sainsburys (as I can't justify Sainsburys Delivers cos I've missed the free period this week ).

This is why my mum, always something of a militant, used to get so cross when people used to say to her "do you work?" "Yes" she said "I have two children and three step-children".

I think it'd be nice if being a 'stay at home' mum involved watching DVDs and chatting with my mates on IM but my guess is, it probably does not

Mrs W I am planning on going back to work after no 2. Hopefully to the job I'm doing now, 4 days a week with plenty of flexibility about hours. I know it's not going to be easy (understatement) but I do enjoy what I do a lot and I think I would genuinely go batty at home.
However it's not beyond us to suddenly up sticks and move to NZ or Wales in which case we'd have to rethink everything. So I wouldn't rule anything out completely.

Mrs W I'm going back (after 7 mths) - have to can't afford not to as I earn more than DH - in fact it would make greater financial sense for me to go back full time and DH to be a SAHD - but tbh I enjoy my current split work/home, and DH would hate being at home all the time. Also we're very lucky - MIL has DS for two days and will also gladly have the new one too...which makes a massive difference to nursery fees.

I definetely will be going back to work after number 2. Finances apart, I just don't think I could handle the two kids on my own 24/7! I know, am a really bad mum! But I think I am a much better mum by having my own time at work, and I honestly think my DD also rather go to daycare.

In terms of lack of understanding of other people though... I get frustrated the other way around. Since I don't spen most of the day with DD, once she is with me, I am totally focused on her. My family think I am crazy because I don't do anything else, and keep telling me I should get a sitter and go out, etc... But how can I? I spend leass than a third of her life with her!
I guess ther is no good solution!

I totally agree Lua. In fact even though I joked about uninviting her to the next London lunch (when we decided not to bring kiddies), I had to really think about it because that is my day with her. It is a big reason why we employed a nanny. DH leaves for work on Sun. or Mon. and returns home on Thurs. or Fri. My very brief evening turned into being more about cleaning up and getting her things ready to take to the childminder in the morning, and a lot less about paying attention to baby screaming for mummy to pick her up. I quickly said, stuff this life. I have one hour in the evening to see my child, andI won't be spending it cleaning the kitchen or any other room. You can guess what the kitchen looked like on Friday. In would walk DH into the war zone and say "What have you done all week?!" Afer about 6 months of this routine, I put my foot down and "we are moving to a bigger house, and getting a live-in nanny." He looked at me like I had some secret bank account he didn't know about.

I totally cherish the time with DD, and nothing else really matter.

My nanny cleans the kitchen and does our laundry too. Thank God for the nanny. She saved my sanity!

That being said, I owuldn't be a stay at home mum even if it paid my current salary. It is a thankless rubbish job, and I admire all who can stand in that fire. Watching the little ones grow and develop into little thinking talking walking versions of you and your partner/husband is of course rewarding. But, staying at home comes with terribly mundane crap work too, like washing dishes, ironing shirts, having to listen to the same bloody Noddy Saves Christmas DVD for the 80th time.... in January! No way, no how. Not for me.

mrs w i'm going to back to work after number 2 as well. luckily DD turns three whilst i'm on maternity leave so her nursery fees will be greatly reduced. I'm hoping to ti get a lectureship at some point in the next 5 years or so and DH wants to be a house husband at the mo we can't afford that!

congrats pink on the boy

Had my midwife appointment today, heard heartbeat and the little soandso kepp wriggling out of the way of the heart monitor which the MW thought was funny, DD was very cute saying 'my baby not ready yet'!! so alls well here, next appoitnmetn at 28 weeks so big break until then

Hey Pink,
Maybe we should call you two Pink Mama and Little Boy Blue.

Katz - Glad the scan went well today

Uwila - I think you and I have very similar approaches to things.

I am no good about the house at all, and do not even attempt to try to pretend I could ever be a wonderful housekeeper of any description. About 6 months ago, 3 months after we had moved to Swansea, I realised that I just couldn't cope without someone to clean and iron for us. I was feeling so guilty as I am hardly ever at home and dp was struggling to do it all himself. My philosophy is that I enjoy working and I don't work hard to then come home and do chores and I didn't want my dp working hard and then coming home and doing all the chores either. He still does the washing and he cooks most days, but he doesn't mind doing that and so we are both happy.

And so, I am applying this same approach to my children. I would be useless being a full-time mum. I struggle with our nephews if we have them for more than 4 hours - and dp can have his moments too, so I think we both need to have our work time, our home time and our "me" time even when baby comes along.

I don't think there is any right or wrong way to do these things and I just wish society would butt out as a whole. What works for one parent-child relationship can't be applied to every situation.

Sorry - I will now get back down off of my soapbox and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

SO many different opinions about staying at home and working or combining the 2. What I think is most important about the whole thing is that we all support each other whatever decisions we make about how to raise our children, because in a way, neither of us could do what we do without the other to help us.

It's such a potentially explosive subject and I usually stay well clear of those on MN!!

Ok, I need to confess I would Looove to hire some kind of help!
But how does one go about it??? I am worried about getting some stranger in the house. Is there a good way to find someone to clean that is not based on word of mouth (I tried that...)?

Wise words Lippy. The debates on here between SAHMs and working mums can turn really nasty. What's wrong with, like you say, supporting everyone's right to live their life the way they choose to?

Scraggy, I have a cleaner (who also does some ironing) and I honestly don't know what we'd do without her. She is a marriage saver for us - for me and DH the cleaning became a bit of battle of wills, something we argued about all the time, and once she started that all stopped. Now it means that I only have to concentrate on DS and DH (and feeding the pair of them, washing, tidying up etc!). I know I'm very lucky - I have choices about things, including about whether I do or don't work, and I do have to remember to be grateful for that sometimes.

Lua, I did get mine through word of mouth so I can't really help you - she cleaned for a friend who then moved away so we asked her (begged her!) to come and do our house instead.

You could try one of the bigger agencies I suppose (Molly Maids or similar) or cards in local shop windows. We sometimes get fliers through the door for more local cleaning companies.

Katz, glad to hear that everything went well at the midwife's today.

You've reminded me...my DS also turns three when I'm on maternity leave! So ta very much for that. Really must get to grips with this sort of thing.

Mrs W, You've practically been talkning to yourself all afternoon

Lua, you could always advertise/answer an ad in your local paper, but that involves interviewing, references etc. ~yawwwwn!~ You must know someone who has one they can recommend surely (although you still need to check out refs etc.)???