Due June 08 - As we start nesting will the creme eggs start hatching?

[bitofadramaqueen]

Another new thread! By the time this one runs out we might have some babies!!! Although, we do chat a lot so maybe not...

Oh, and I'm not a middle class know it all anyway!

mine is in my head, and mainly consists of, as I may have mentioned before, no medical students allowed, and no Keith Chegwin. Give me pain relief if I need it, but not if I don't. Get me and baby through this as safely and as healthily as possible. Thanks.

I get the feeling that they go out of the window fairly early on. I think I'm probably biased against them with my medical background, as I find it frustrating when, as a clinician, patients decide to go on internet based research rather than on evidence based medicine. Guess this is less relevant in childbirth as the patients are healthy people like us rather than ill people!

I think a lot of the problem is that most people don't have the medical advice explained to them properly, or at all, and that ofen it is passed on third hand by nursing/midwifery staff who don't know the answer to any questions that treatment, or lack thereof, is based on. I think it depends on the individual staff members too. Some people can't explain options and risk/benefits of anything! presenting an educated person with a decision without involving them or explaining the reasons that you think it is the best choice on balance is nearly as bad as not treating them at all IMO. I'm very keen on good communication in medicine!

Personally I apply the Grandma rule in the case of elderly people and my sister rule in the case of people of my age. Would my Gran/sis understand what I'm saying and be able to explain it to someone else? Equally I always tell them to write things down and ask questions if they don't understand something!

erm, sorry appear to have got off the point somewhat and onto my high horse [getting off high horse and looking a bit embarrassed emoticon]

I think a flexible list of dos and don't sounds good Whinegums!

Laura, can understand how annoying patients could be if they have done their 'internet' research! I have included that I want an explanation before they do anything - to DP if I'm so out of it I don't know my own name. I think your Grandma/sis rule is excellent.

Am obviously having a bit of a quiet afternoon at work and idly musing...

me too! don't think I can stand many more weeks of this before mat leave! Role on 4th June...

Hey Neenz, thanks for posting that. I have quite a lot of the same stuff (obviously not for twins though!) so I don't feel so bad about my list of dos and don'ts now.

How are you getting on anyway?

Laura, I finish on 22 May, 18 days left at work, and I'll be out/off for a few of them! Hurrah!!!!

Hey whinegums, I am good, was a bit tired before cos didn't sleep so well last night but had two naps today so feel much better now. Not being at work is great!

I know what you mean about middle class know it all mums. I feel the same but actually I think most midwives agree with natural childbirth methods - they certainly seem to at my hospital. I haven't mentioned hypnobirthing in my birth plan although I have been doing that too - I thought that was one kooky step too far! But actually at antenatal classes the MWs said that they have a very positive open attitude to hypnobirthing and anything else that relaxes the mother, because they reckon that is the key to a straightforward delivery. I said 'do they laugh at you if you go in there talking about hypnobirthing?' I thought they might snigger at you thinking 'we'll see...'

But they said no....

Two naps Neenz, one for each baby, good for you!

Yes, it seems that most of the mws I come across do agree with natural childbirth, one of them was evangelical about hypnobirthing. I know you're doing it, I've tried the CDs, unfortunately the woman's voice really grates on me! But maybe I'm just strange like that!

Ha ha, I can see why whinegums! I am not taking it too seriously, I think you need to do classes to really benefit and we don't have the time now, but the relaxation and visualisation techniques will be useful I think.

Just re-posting this with my real name removed. Not bothered about you lot knowing my real name but I wouldn't want someone finding out my MN name from Googling me!

Re. birth plans: I was so surprised at my antenatal classes when they said they don't do ANYTHING to you during labour without discussing it with you first. eg episiotomy, drugs to bring on third stage etc. So I don't think there's a massive need to have it written down, though you need to think about what you want to do if they say, for instance, that they want to hook you up for continous monitoring - if you want to move around that may restrict that. Do you want pethidine (could affect baby worse than epi), do you want them to sppeed up your labour if it stops (you may want to but may feel that any intervention like that could lead to further intervention later on so may want to wait 30 mins).

I have put my birth plan below - please don't feel obliged to read it! But if you want some ideas about what to think about, then it covers lots of things...

Birth plan (twins)

To all midwives and other health professionals who may attend my twins? birth,

I fully understand that a twin birth is different to a singleton birth and can throw up complications not encountered with just one baby. I have read the twins protocol for the hospital and have spoken to parents of multiples who have delivered naturally and to various professionals at the hospital about the various risks and options re. pain relief.

I am keen to have as little medical intervention as possible during labour and delivery and I would like to have skin to skin contact and to nurse the babies immediately after birth. I would also like to leave the hospital as soon as we are deemed fit to do so. My mum Ailsa and Peter, my named birth partners, will be at home with me and I am confident they can look after me there as well as I could be looked after in hospital where there may be many demands on the time of the midwives.

We will trust the medical judgement of all who attend the birth but ask please that any intervention or procedure is properly explained, including options for refusing.

I do not wish to be induced. As long as the babies and I are fit and well I want them to come in their own time.

I wish to be attended primarily by my husband Peter, and possibly also by my mum Ailsa.
If all is going well with the labour I wish to be attended by midwives only, with at least one experienced in twin birth.
I wish for there to be as few people in the labour room as possible to give me privacy, but I understand that a twin birth is an excellent teaching opportunity for student midwives. I am happy to consider allowing students to attend the birth on the day on a case by case basis.
I would like there to be as little noise as possible in the room, I would like those attending the birth to speak in low voices and for the lights to be dimmed if possible at the time of delivery.
I do not wish my labour to be started or speeded up using drugs or rupture of membranes. If labour stops I wish for it to be allowed to restart naturally as long as the babies are not distressed.
I do not wish to have an IV drip or any other line put in ?just in case?.
I wish to be able to eat and drink during labour.
I am happy to use the EFM belts for 20 minutes or so to initially record a baseline of the babies? heartbeats when labour starts, but I want to be free to move around so I would like the heartbeats to be monitored using a hand-held device thereafter. I do not want a scalp electrode used to monitor the heartbeat of Theo (twin 1).
I do not wish to be confined to the bed.
I do not wish to have an epidural just because this is a twin birth or just ?in case? there are complications with the second twin. However, if I do decide to have an epidural, I may request that the epidural be sited but that the drug is not administered unless necessary for the turning/delivery of Esther (twin 2) (as agreed with Mr Jones). I understand that turning a baby or delivering a breech baby without an epidural can be very painful. If Esther is breech after Theo?s birth then I would like all options of pain relief discussed with me.
There must be somebody on the ward who can deliver a breech baby. If there is no one, I would like someone to be called well before the birth of the first twin. I do not want to have to have a ceasarean for the second twin just because there is no one there who is experienced in a breech delivery.
I wish to take up whatever position feels best during delivery, including squatting, kneeling, standing or being on all fours - for both babies.
When twin 1 is born, I want him to be handed straight to me for skin to skin contact and nursing and I do not wish the cord to be cut until it stops pulsating. If for any reason it is not possible for me to take the baby, I want him to be handed to Peter for skin to skin contact and for the cord to be cut after it stops pulsating. I do not want the baby to be cleaned in any way before being handed to us.
If twin 2 takes more than the guidelines of 30 minutes to deliver and her heart rate is normal, I want the labour to progress without intervention past 30 minutes. I do not wish to have drugs to restart labour unless medically necessary.
After the birth of twin 2 I would like her to be handed to me immediately for skin to skin contact and nursing and for the cord to stop pulsating before it is cut. I do not wish for her to be cleaned in any way.
I would like the third stage of labour to occur without drugs to speed it up - unless agreed by me.
If both twins are healthy I want them to stay with me and not taken to SCBU.
If an episiotomy is deemed necessary I want that to be discussed with me prior to it being performed.
In the event of a caesarean, I would like Peter to be in theatre with me and to for me and him to hold the babies immediately after their birth if possible.
If the babies have to go to special care, I want to hold or at least touch them before they go.
I want the babies to have breast milk that I pump, no formula, and I would like to nurse them as soon as they are able.
I would prefer vitamin K to be administered orally rather than by injection.

Have asked MN to remove the other post!

I am back from my scan and Yipee the baby's kidneys were fine this time and it is indeed head down! Roll-on-home birth. It is such a relief as it was kind of weighting heavy at the back of my mind

Looney sorry you have had all these troubles. You know on your other thread I told you I had the same thing a week before and that they had tested my urine too. I had to do the test 4 times and it still came back unconclusive. Saw my midwife on Tuesday and she tested my urine again and said it seemed fine and not to bother with doing the urine test again. So it seems I have been luckier than you but I did wonder how the test could come back 4 times with unconclusive. I hope you and baby tune will be fine!

Debs interesting morning by all accounts!

Re my maternity cover. I will stop being annoyed about it, I only have a week left and it is not my problem. But it really annoys me that I went out of my way to have give him a proper induction (which I never have myself) went through all the contracts with him, held his hand and nothing sunk in. My other colleague has just send me an e-mail asking me if he went for an interview yesterday . Anyway I will stop talking about him since I have already wasted enough time with him

whinegums I still haven't written my birth plan. Will probably do that when I come back from my holidays. I probably am a middle class know it all, but that is because I do not want a repeat of DD's birth. And off course midwifes don't like middle class know it all, they just want people to say

"you want to leave me on my own- fine; you want to give me an episiotomy fine; you want me to shut up fine, of course I will do whatever is easier for you and yes I do realise that the fact that it is my birth and that it should be special is irrelevant even though you will have completely forgotten about me tomorrow. As long as everything is easy for you dear dear midwife"

NeeN very good birth plan. Might take inspiration from it

Afternoon all

Glad to see that we are all feeling better my BP has stabilised and seems to be fine at the mo but ive been really tired lately and very achey towards end of day kind of fluey like

Went to first aqua natal classes today very good, and funny feeling so light in the water!!

Weather here is really hot at mo you probably all think wow lucky her!! but actually 40 C and a foggy haze is not nice!!!

Question for you all: A friend on the april thread has just given birth this week and i am thinking what to get her for a pressie, i know that i personally would rather something useful rather than loads more clothes etc!! I thought about a basket with nappies, wet wipes, creams etc for baby and some smellies etc for her 2nd time mums what presie was most useful for you?

parofleurmapu - your suggested present for your friend sounds lovely and as a second timer, then you're right about further clothes. However, I would probably focus more on the mother than the baby - lots of lovely smellies eg lavender oil etc always goes down a treat.

Alternatively, someone sent me a large tin of yummy muffins, cookies etc which was fantastic - not only was it a necessity to eat the contents to help with the BF-ing, but useful for feeding visitors. Visit: Beverly Hills Bakery & Gift Basket tel: +44 (0)20 7586 0070 website: www.beverlyhillsbakery.com

Hope this helps.

Paro I wouldn't buys her a basket with nappies , wet wipes etc as you don't really know what her choices are in this respect (but perhaps you do?). She might be following the real nappies and only cotton wool stance and all your niceties will be wasted. For the baby I would buy a toy for when he is 6 months or something. Personnally my colleagues bought me some toileteries for the baby (never used complete waste of time especially since baby has eczema) and an activity mat for the baby from the ELC. It didn't look like much and at the time I though but DD loved it and spent hours and hours playing on it. Otherwise I would just ask her outright if there is anything she might need. Something for her might be nice too

sorry appalling spelling as usual

Neenz I'm very impressed with your birth plan!!! Mine is as follows -

Pethedine then gas and air for pain relief. No episiotomy.

Very short compared to yours!!

I had a midwives appointment today and bp and urine fine. Baby measuring 3 weeks big for dates, next appointment in two weeks. I'm glad it was all okay!

hi all - just done first nct class and was very impressed as much more informative/less judgemental than I thought. So particularly impressed with neenz inspirational list.

Needahand - your cover sounds like a right chocolate teapot. I suppose the only thing that can be said in his favour is that he is making you look fantastic but does sound like last thing you need.

DQ -sorry to hear about all you've been through - some therapeutic shopping definitely needed. the gap maternity stuff is fab and if you pass a zara that does maternity stuff am v.impressed with that too.

Mellymell Like the food idea in the basket too,

I know what nappies she will use as she has told me which she thinks are best in the past few months so hopefully wont go to wrong if i do go along that line of things

Needahand - Good idea to maybe get something for baby for when its older.

Interesting that you mention activity mat as i have just been thinking bout that but for me!!!

My dp's work colleagues want to club together and get us something, they asked dp to discreetly ask me what we would want.

Dp being very discreet (not) said Oh work wants to know what we want as pressie!!! im not meant to ask you outright but try and find out!!!
Theres about 10 of them so it can be something larger than normal pressie was thinking bout activity mat or balancing chair thing.

Neenz, I'm completely in awe of your birth plan! It's sooo detailed and I feel like a complete novice couldn't hadn't even thought of half of that (I didn't even know the cord 'pulsated'!! ).

I've copied it into a word document to share with dh as we're doing our birth plan this weekend to talk through with MW on Monday - mine was initially going to be more like goingfor3's plan, but I do want things like an active labour and skin to skin contact so maybe I should think again.

(In fact the only thing I had written so far was "desperately anxious mother with v low pain threshold - help!).

Hi all

My friend had her baby at 1am this morning, it took a while to induce her, but once she went into labour it was all really quick, she was examined at4cm and taken upstairs, got to delivery suite at 12.42 started on gas and air and baby came flying out at 1am! Mum looks great, baby girl 81b 8oz, decided to call her Francesca (frankie).

dq Next on argyle street used to do mat stuff.

Neenz - I am really impressed with your birth plan.

I'm a bit about my birth plan now! But with twins they want to do so much to you that I think is unnecessary I really wanted to put everything in writing cos if the consultant reads it and is happy with it then hopefully I will feel confident enough during the labour to say no to the interventions. Also I don't want to put the babies at risk so consultant can tell me if anything in my plan is dangerous for twins. MW didn't seem to see any problems.

Next scan/consultant appt next Thursday so hopefully consultant will give it the thumbs up.

HI there

Neenz, great birth plan. I think they are very useful as they help you think things through before the actual event.

WARNING. THE FOLLOWING IS GROSS AND OFF-PUTTING. But anything can happen. For example, my last birth plan said I wanted to avoid an episiotomy but as it was a medical emergency, no-one discussed it with me ... In fact, I didn't even realise that I'd had one until afterwards. But then (and this is very juvenile of me) I got the f**ker who cut me back as I had an interesting response to the drug they gave me to speed up the third stage. First I threw up all over him - and then as he moved back, I hit him in the chest with a placenta being expelled at 50 mph. I understand the episiotomy now but still get a sick pleasure from the fact that I got him back. Is that very pathetic?

Katyjo, glad all is OK with your friend.

Paro, the basket sounds lovely. But I would definitely second the idea of getting something for the mother as well. People rarely do, and it makes you feel very special. Glad your BP is OK too. A friend of mine has just been diagnosed with proper pre-eclampsia.

Debs, what a morning! And interesting attitude to smoking!

Needahand, glad that kidneys are OK and that the baby is head-down.

My birthday tomorrow. I'm going to be 37 - eeek!

upsidedowncake - am I bad to find your vengeance quite amusing? and happy birthday for tomorrow -any plans?

Neenz - that's a brilliant birth plan. I wish I'd been as informed as that when I had DS1.

Katyjo - I don't suppose your friend lives in Manchester and is called Jan??

Needahand - what sort of law do you do? Are you fee earning? Sorry if I'm being too nosey, I'm just interested. I was a litigator before children, then part-time PSL work after each of the boys, but I haven't worked since we moved up here 4 years ago and now consider myself utterly unemployable . I've never worked outisde London and don't really know the firms up here.