With our swamp fanjos and supermarket jobbies it's all going on in our knickers. It's a wonder our men agree to deliver the prostaglandin injections but then we are the 24th Just Shagging Grads!

[Pisghetti]

Welcome, welcome, welcome to the 24th grads thread... celebrating the success of Just Shagging in getting us viroids upduffed!

For those that don't know, a 'viroid' is from the original JSing thread 1, where someone was trying to type ladies (in reference to all the JSing ladies), but their phone decided to call us all viroids instead!

The name stuck and we've been the JSing viroids ever since.

The thread we have graduated from is herein its 41st outing. WARNING: they're all a bit kerazy not to mention randy!

There is also a Just Mumming thread in postnatal clubs herefor once your babies come along, or to keep up with the graduated graduates!

There is also a private facebook group (so it doesn't give the game away in your news feed!)... if you want to join to see photos of new babies etc, just ask in-thread!

The stats sheet is here

So, roll call below please, viroids!

Tee look after yourself - definitely agree to call in as you've nothing to lose by getting checked out. How are you this morning?

Lauren did you get to take DS home on Sunday? Not sure if you've moved over to justmumming or probably just recovering after the couple of weeks you've had.

Scottish viroids - there's a thread looking for your participation here

Another presentation to give today, was up late finishing it. Work is properly running me down now and I'm getting very stressed and fed up.

I'm delighted I'm past the 24 week mark - hooray! Loved that the app says 'now you're going to start putting on weight'. Um....start??

Mountain how many weeks are you? I think you're around the same time I was when I got the round ligament pain. Felt like a stitch or like the stretchy pains from the start of pg and I got v worried but they are perfectly normal.

Lemon I've had terrible bleeding gums. You'll get free dental care now so go get checked. I have to floss every day and mouthwash to keep gun disease at bay due to pregnancy softening my gums. I look like a vampire after brushing.

I was planning to do delayed cord cutting but hadn't heard about cord donation. Does it matter if cord blood doesn't go back into baby and is donated instead?

I'm not particularly a lentil weaver but I'm a biologist and like to know how my body works so I'm learning as much as possible about what I can do to help labour naturally. Going to do perineal massage to try to prevent tears and I want to stay upright during birth so no epidural. I'm not bothered about music or candles etc for birth but I will be taking pic n mix!!!

At the moment I'm just counting the days til mat leave. Desperately want to finish work. 10 more Mondays!

Hahaha Yourmawsnet.com

Hope all is OK tee

I'm 14+6 la so hoping your right and it's a growth spurt, I would like a bump now!

I would love to donate cord blood, but a lot of hospitals still don't have the facilities, especially in smaller ones or up north. I've given blood religiously since I was 17 until I started TTC. I'm also on the bone marrow register since working with young cancer pts.

I don't know who it was saying about having a play list including eye of the tiger, I'm thinking that is a great idea for the pushing stage! My uphill running playlist would be perfect obviously the only ktime I listen to cheesy 80s hair metal

Ooh I can't remember if that was me mountain but it's on my list at home!

Along with
'you can do it put your back into it',
'Push it'
'Ring of fire'
'You're the best' (rocky)
And many such anthems

Daisy music is great but can't beat a bit of salt n pepa

Wil you asked abut Vit K, right?

For me, the risk isn't big enough to give something we know little about to a baby. The chances of late-onset VKDB are roughly 4 in 100000. Babies are given intramuscular vitamin K because it is easiest and cheapest- not necessarily because it is 'best'. There are other oral preparations available, but these are less widely used, and won't stop early onset VKDB. Additionally, the shot contains preservatives and bovine derivatives (as you might expect), so if you are veggie there is no alternative option for you ('fresh' vitK is only available in the US), and if you are determined to BF because of the associated health benefits it seems counterintuitive to happy introduce something unnatural into your baby's system.

A lot of historical studies were very badly carried out, with small sample sizes and lots of flaws. Naturally they threw up all kinds of results, including a higher incidence of ASD in those babies who had received the shot. This has since been disproven but it does show that we need a study on the contemporary preparation.

Babies are born with subnormal levels of vitamin K, but that is when compared to adults. No research has yet been completed about why all babies might be born with this level of vitamin K, rather than the normal adult level, and I just think that there must be a reason; probably something to do with clot prevention when in the birth canal, or placental transfusion.

Again, vitK doesn't cross the placenta, and there must be a reason for this. It is also relatively low in breastmilk, even if the mother is taking a vitK supplement, and I think there is some physiological reason. I just want to see some proper research first before I make a decision.

Finally, I disagree with the lack of information readily available to parents antenatally (essentially fuck all) and disagree with the conversation when offered vitK; it's usually along the lines of:
MW: would you like the vitK shot for baby?
Parents: Err, what's that
MW: well, it's a vitamin that stops baby bleeding to death, would you like it?

Of course, all this goes out the window if you FF, because formula is vitK-enriched.

However, this is all research-based, and I may completely change my mind when the baby gets here!

Oh that's interesting Lemon, you're right, two babies down and didn't know any of that. I don't buy the ASD stuff but know nothing about the rest. Will you have similar issues about vaccinations due to the other ingredients? Talking of which does anyone have an opinion on the need for the rotavirus vaccine? We've had the first one and have had diarrhoea for nearly a week afterwards (still going) - and I'm in two minds about whether to get the follow up dose. I don't have an issue with the other vaccinations and know MiniWil never got rotavirus one as it wasn't around then.

Please play 'push it' when you're crowning La . I agree, soft music wouldn't help me at all in labour, I'd want upbeat gym tunes.

Sorry Wil don't know anything about rotavirus! Currently my mindset is to try and get as many vaccines as poss antenatally as it's much safer (and kinda important for you too because your immune system is deliberately weaker to allow the parasitic nature of an embryo). About vaccines, I haven't read up on their preferred schedule, but I expect I'll be delaying a fair few; although of course it depends what they are, and what the incidence is of failure / complication. I am not under any circs an anti-vaxxer though crazies

Why would you delay them Lemon?

I'm a firm believer in a 4th trimester so won't be getting anything until 3 months as the baby develops its immune system and vaccines are often delivered with extra ingredients that are allergens in your children, such as egg albumen etc.

I think BF also gives natural immunisation against the things I have antibodies for as it is a blood product, so providing my vaccines are all up to date, there is no reason why those 4 weeks should make any difference to the baby's health, in terms of them catching something. Additionally the baby is born with my antibodies as these start to cross the placenta from 36 weeks, I think.

I need to read Sears' delayed vax schedule but may be adopting some ideas from that, providing they're evidence-based.

Again, it's been a while since I've read up on any of this, so I'm expecting to change my viewpoint a bit when I've done some proper research. How do you feel about it, Popz?

Ah you see this is why I don't know about all this Lemon, I'm lazy and there's too much research involved . I'm not sure how the immunity from breastmilk works - my friend's baby just got chicken pox when the mum is obviously immune, but he only had it really mildly so does it just lessen the effects? And how come you can give babies some live vaccines - like rotavirus, but I couldn't get the rubella live vaccine until I'd finished breastfeeding - so presumably they don't think that ones safe? Is it just because rubella is worse to have than rotavirus?

Lauren's DS is home now La. She has been popping into the other thread occasionally.

Oh god another person on a 'I have no symptoms' thread has found out at 12 week scan that their baby died 2 weeks ago and has said they were right to worry about having no symptoms Extremely sad for them but also getting worried again myself now! 1 week until next scan and still feeling very unpregnant! I know that for every bad story there are 10 good but can't help focusing on the bad ones!

Eurgh Bat I get that she's grieving but that's an incredibly inappropriate thing to say on a antenatal thread.... Sometimes I think you just have to step away from these threads. MMCs are tragic but rare. In large groups such as those statistically it's bound to happen to at least one person sadly. Try not to get yourself upset and stay in here with us Not long to wait now til your scan x

Yeah true I should focus on the fact that it is rare.....just that on a thread about having no symptoms where only a handful of people are on there there have been 2 mmcs so it feels like it's common. But I suppose when we have worried we tend to focus on the negative outcomes that we hear rather than the many positives. I've been fine since 9 weeks scan but just starting to get a little nervous again, turns out I need reassurance every 2 weeks! Hopefully all fine.....will try not to focus on the negatives!

Lemon - I've never put any thought into delaying vaxx to be truthful! I am a subscriber to the 4th trimester thinking but definitely pro vaccination so it never really crossed my mind. Food for thought. Although too late for this DC.

I can't remember the exact stat bat but after seeing a heartbeat at 8 weeks your risk of mc drops MASSIVELY

Bat it is very normal not to. Other than tiredness and bloating I haven't neither has any other mother in my family. I completely empathise as it still worries me (I don't even have a 'food baby/bloat bump' anymore which is terrifying) but you will be fine blood and cramps are (in my experience) much more worrying in early pregnancy

Agreed. The early days on the due date Fred was pretty nerve wracking.

I am the product of a no vaccination, hippy mother. Who ended up being FF!!! I only had the MMR 18 months ago and that was under huge pressure from DH as we were going to India on holiday.

I am going to go with vaccinations. I know it's a personal choice but we have the option to prevent so many diseases when others do not - I feel I should do it.

Will have to research cord blood and vitamin k!

Bat if it's any consolation I'm scared too, as have very few symptoms, they come and go, and either I'm dealing with them better or they're getting less strong.

Just don't pee on any sticks!!! And I know it's no comfort, but there really is nothing you can do at this stage to change the outcome, so although not knowing is hard, you're not in control of your baby thriving or otherwise.

I have all my fingers crossed for you and for me (and for us all, really!) and am sending you a mini hooya and a hug

Thanks all for the pep talk and thinking of you mountain and lemon as well if you are also worrying. I just need to remember how convinced I was before my last scan that things had gone bad and how wrong I was. Just because other people very sadly have bad experiences doesn't mean that everyone with no symptoms should worry. I feel like I can't wait until I have a bump because that will be reassurance but then I am sure I will be worrying about lack of kicks etc - and then baby comes and we will worry about them every second of every day for the rest of our lives! Why are we doing this again?! Haha! lemon if you need anyone to chat to if you are stressing about the early stages then feel free to message me, I was ridiculously worried a few weeks ago and although I did moan on here and everyone was wonderful I did worry about sounding like a broken record so I don't mind if you need to do some off thread complaining!

Actually lemon you don't sound anywhere near as crazy as me so I'm sure you don't need to moan!

Haha! Bat, I may well do that. This link is also keeping me sane. It is an amalgamation of lots of studies, and gives you a rough likelihood of miscarrying in the whole of the rest of your pregnancy on any given day in your gestation. This was quite calming for me as I watched the numbers drop day by day!

Also remember that the women you were thinking of most likely had other risk factors too; over 40, high BMI, smoker, previous miscarriages, pre-existing conditions, uterine or cervical problems and invasive prenatal tests.

for you!

Ooh yeah that is a nice link, I remember seeing that a few weeks ago. Makes getting through each day feel like a little achievement!